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Author Topic: Soloing Question: what scale?  (Read 16235 times)

Offline Paul Marossy

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2009, 11:29:09 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs
[brThe sax solo for Temptation's song "Get Ready" was only one note.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJhiUpwy7P0



Wow, that takes the "less is more" concept to a new level. [:0]
And these cats recorded this tune way back in 1966. [;)]

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline bno

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2009, 07:21:13 PM »
Hmmm... theory.  The boon and bain.  Too much knowledge vs. not enough.  What I was referring to was the notion that "theorists" look as what has been done and make an effort to quantify and categorize - then apply that as knowledge to what they are trying to do or to inform their own creativity.  Theory as observation to be modeled vs. theory as a launching pad.  Overly theoretical becomes dry, pedantic adn academic.  The point I was after is that much of "music theory" is an accoumulation of historical perspective - "this is how so and so did it" or "this is why such and such worked".  Walter Piston.  Not really the essence of the moment but a codification of moments passed (and in the past).  "What scale?" is a theoretical question - I'm bored with what I'm playing is an emotional response.  Theory alone will not satisfy the emotional requirement.  However, "theory" as a means to expand your palette is worthwhile, eye opening, necessary and rewarding.  As long as your expresion is not about what you know but what you feel. It's good to know your scales, it's boring to hear you play them.

[Please ignore the over-intellectualized drivel above... other than the notion of theory as a tool to expand your horizon - I just have a personal beef with 'theory' as a panacea for other musical ills.]
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 12:11:00 PM by bno »
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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline simonlock

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2009, 08:52:34 AM »
If you have time to read a small book buy Victor Wooten's "A Music Lesson". He's put together a very interesting book that tells a story and shows musicians why scales and theory don't get you anywhere but that deep within them there is a well of creativity that never runs dry. All you have to do is listen carefully enough to realize it. Great read.
 

Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Paul Marossy

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2009, 11:42:33 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by simonlock

If you have time to read a small book buy Victor Wooten's "A Music Lesson". He's put together a very interesting book that tells a story and shows musicians why scales and theory don't get you anywhere but that deep within them there is a well of creativity that never runs dry. All you have to do is listen carefully enough to realize it. Great read.



Victor Wooten is a great musician, and an awesome creative bassist. I think I would get something out of this book I haven't heard about before. [8D]

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline mem555

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2009, 04:43:26 PM »
bno, I think that your comments may have struck a chord --  why am I bored?  I think I need to expand the horizons of theory and technique to the point where I am not limited in my approach.
 

Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Paul Marossy

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2009, 05:44:12 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by mem555

bno, I think that your comments may have struck a chord --  why am I bored?  I think I need to expand the horizons of theory and technique to the point where I am not limited in my approach.



I think that may be true for me as well, from time to time.

Honestly, sometimes I am not even sure what I am playing theory-wise. I do rely on my intuition a lot, and most of the time I find something that works. But I don't always get it right. [:I]

It does also depend on what I am doing. If I am playing in a context other than improvising, I have a harder time knowing what to play.

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Lwinn171

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2009, 06:30:26 PM »
Remember to be rhythmically adventurous, too. A lot of great solo's are actually harmonically easy to grasp, but made interesting by the phrasing choices. The longer I play (30 years, now - gasp), the more interested I become in phrasing and rhythmic devices.

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Paul Marossy

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2009, 06:33:30 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Lwinn171

Remember to be rhythmically adventurous, too. A lot of great solo's are actually harmonically easy to grasp, but made interesting by the phrasing choices. The longer I play (30 years, now - gasp), the more interested I become in phrasing and rhythmic devices.




Good suggestion. Frank Zappa used that idea to great effect.

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline bno

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2009, 07:57:33 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by mem555

bno, I think that your comments may have struck a chord --  why am I bored?  I think I need to expand the horizons of theory and technique to the point where I am not limited in my approach.

I think you already have.  "I think I need to expand the horizons of theory and technique to the point where I am not limited in my approach." is about as profound as it gets.  
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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline prjacobs

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2009, 06:46:57 AM »
Which is to say that for a musician, theory is a dynamic process, not an academic one.  bno, what you've just said above is that too much knowledge is not a bad thing:)  Lawrence, your point about phrasing is apt, but you have to really understand what phrasing is.  I have been playing for over 50 years, and I still feel clueless at times about phrasing.  This is where a good teacher comes in.  Well... Not a good teacher, a great one.  There is a tradition of teaching, not only in music, but in many subjects that is, if you'll pardon the expression, a sacred one. There are knowledgeable people who've travelled to where we want to go.  They can make the way easier for us. A teacher will break us out of our patterns.  So... back to the original post.  What scale should I use when I solo.  I guess my thought for today is.... Ask your teacher.  My fellow parker brothers and sisters.... This is yet another reason that New York City is so great.  You want teachers, we got 'em.  And now, for another great motivator.... Coffee!!!
 

Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline bno

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2009, 10:18:19 AM »
I did not..... well, yeah I maybe...  What I meant was any amount of knowledged applied badly is not a good thing.  And a little knowledge applied thoughtfully is a good thing.  So, get knowledge and apply it.  There is no such thing as too much knowledge.  Well, maybe on some topics, but certainly not music.  As the saying goes, it's not what you got, it's how you use it.  Which is where this whole thread started - the thirst for knowledge.  Go forth!  Seek!
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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Paul Marossy

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2009, 10:31:09 AM »
I like the concept of comparing playing music to conversation. I think of the notes you play as what you say and phrasing as how you say it.

There is a whole wide range of possibilities in just those two things. [;)]

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline prjacobs

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2009, 01:14:51 PM »
bno.... I'm just nitpicking... Of course too much knowledge can handcuff you when you're playing.  Although there's a difference between knowledge and facts:)  To totally digress...  and forgive me, I'm just killing time before I go jam with band mates that I haven't played with since 1967.  I can't be responsible for my behavior right now, since I'm lost in a 60s nostalgic, flashback zone....

There's a story that the gods came down to ancient Egypt and showed the king a book and said... We bring you the gift of reading and writing.  Until that time all teachings and stories were passed down orally, and the king worried because he was afraid that facts would replace knowledge.  That a quantity of empty information would be put to memory without really understanding it.  

Paul, I think your concept invites us to learn the language of music, so that we can creatively express ourselves in it.  As with english, we might use a certain language if we a scientist talking to fellow scientists, or a very different language when having a conversation with a neighbor on the street.  So, depending on what we might want to say and to whom we might want to say it, we can go in many different directions.  Some more formal and some more casual.
 

Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Paul Marossy

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2009, 03:06:05 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

Paul, I think your concept invites us to learn the language of music, so that we can creatively express ourselves in it.  As with english, we might use a certain language if we a scientist talking to fellow scientists, or a very different language when having a conversation with a neighbor on the street.  So, depending on what we might want to say and to whom we might want to say it, we can go in many different directions.  Some more formal and some more casual.



Exactly. [8D]

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Strandwolf

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2009, 07:07:16 PM »
Seems that very few people have anything much that's all that interesting to impart to their listeners. If I want to hear something that's already been said, I'll go with the original, not copycats.

Carl Perkins  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjKrMXhmZeY
Scotty Moore
Chuck Berry
Jeff Beck
Stevie Ray Vaughan*

He played riffs commandeered from predecessors such as Jimi Hendrix, Albert King, Lonnie Mack, and tons of others, including his very able but underappreciated brother Jimmie Vaughan, but added some fire, tone, spirit, verve, and pizzaz....
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 10:14:58 PM by Strandwolf »
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