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Author Topic: Soloing Question: what scale?  (Read 16242 times)

Offline Strandwolf

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2009, 09:02:16 PM »
But then good live music hits the spot. You can see it made and feel it in a way that's probably impossible thru recordings.

Here's some guys that have the Chicago blues genre nailed, and I suppose that music grabbed their souls real early and they copped some licks from others that were kind enough to show them, but really, they larned the vibe and chops via the seats of their pants, just horsing around the fretboard and wiggling their fingers, etc., until it just felt right.

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Mark Hummel, harmonica

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline jefsummers

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2009, 09:38:30 PM »
Our band wrestles with this. We do all covers, actually mostly big band stuff. One of the guys likes to try to make us sound just like the original recordings. The rest of us push more for our own sound, making the song ours. I say that if the people want to hear it just like the original recording, they should buy the original CD and just play that, that we are a live band with our own interpretation. To me, trying to nail that exact tone, that exact sound, that exact solo may be difficult and laudable, but I'd rather play (and hear) the heart and soul of the person playing.

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline bno

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2009, 10:49:47 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

bno.... I'm just nitpicking...
just funnin' back at ya.  C'mon, we are so much on the same page... hope you had a good rif-o-rama.
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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Paul Marossy

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2009, 10:17:41 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by jefsummers

that we are a live band with our own interpretation. To me, trying to nail that exact tone, that exact sound, that exact solo may be difficult and laudable, but I'd rather play (and hear) the heart and soul of the person playing.



That is exactly how I approach things. In my opinion, the last thing the world needs is another copycat guitarist. I never understood why it seems to be a crime for many to personalize something a little bit.

I can appreciate it when someone can play a song by someone else and it sounds just like the original. But too many people have that as their goal and they stop there. OK, so you're a parrot. Woo hoo.

I say be original! [8D]

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« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 10:32:28 AM by Paul Marossy »

Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline prjacobs

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2009, 11:22:23 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy

quote:
Originally posted by jefsummers

that we are a live band with our own interpretation. To me, trying to nail that exact tone, that exact sound, that exact solo may be difficult and laudable, but I'd rather play (and hear) the heart and soul of the person playing.



That is exactly how I approach things. In my opinion, the last thing the world needs is another copycat guitarist. I never understood why it seems to be a crime for many to personalize something a little bit.

I can appreciate it when someone can play a song by someone else and it sounds just like the original. But too many people have that as their goal and they stop there. OK, so you're a parrot. Woo hoo.

I say be original! [8D]



In my opinion, there is a point of severely diminishing returns, (notice how I snuck in a musical term here), when you go beyond learning a part to exactly copying it.  I don't want to hear anyone playing the exact solo that say BB King or Jimi Hendrix played, because even if all of the notes are exactly the same, it won't be nearly as good or have the same feel as the original.  For the 3 people in the audience that might say, "wow, that's note for note like the record".... Get a life.
 In the studio, the last thing you want to do is crush a musician's or singer's spirit by forcing him or her into a mold.  I've seen performances wrecked by this type of hyper control.  The thing to do is to find a way for musicians to be able to express themselves and still serve the music.
 

Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline prjacobs

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2009, 11:23:58 AM »
And..... I hope this guy who had the question about scales and soloing, is practicing, not wasting his time on the forum......
 

Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Paul Marossy

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2009, 10:03:48 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

In my opinion, there is a point of severely diminishing returns, (notice how I snuck in a musical term here), when you go beyond learning a part to exactly copying it.  I don't want to hear anyone playing the exact solo that say BB King or Jimi Hendrix played, because even if all of the notes are exactly the same, it won't be nearly as good or have the same feel as the original.  For the 3 people in the audience that might say, "wow, that's note for note like the record".... Get a life.
 In the studio, the last thing you want to do is crush a musician's or singer's spirit by forcing him or her into a mold.  I've seen performances wrecked by this type of hyper control.  The thing to do is to find a way for musicians to be able to express themselves and still serve the music.



LOL, yeah get a life. [:D]

That crushing of a musician's spirit also happens sometimes in band situations, in certain contexts.

quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

And..... I hope this guy who had the question about scales and soloing, is practicing, not wasting his time on the forum......



Yeah, totally. [8D]

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Mr. Wonderful

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2009, 05:53:42 PM »
mem, I'm a big big fan of dvd instruction. once you get a few lying around, you can use them like a little cafeteria of private lessons, take a little from here, a little from there, some are awesome, some kinda suck, but that's a personal thing.  I got a ton from the scott henderson one, and intense rock 1 & 2 by paul gilbert has so many cool fancy rock god tricks you'll never incorporate them all into your playing.  a quick word about theory:  it's not essential to know, but it is a very handy language to communicate with other non-guitar players with. theory is like chicken soup: it ain't gonna hurt anything!

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 the , "weddings during wartime" and "baby baby" were both recorded with one of my pm 20's
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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline prjacobs

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2009, 06:30:39 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Wonderful
 a quick word about theory:  it's not essential to know, but it is a very handy language to communicate with other non-guitar players with. theory is like chicken soup: it ain't gonna hurt anything!


Certainly, no one NEEDS to know theory, or take a single lesson.  I guess it depends on what you want to play.  Or what moves you when you listen to music.  The Beatles knew no theory and for my money are by far, the best rock band ever.  In fact, no other 10 bands come close.... For me[:)].
This is not the moment for anyone to reply.... Hey, the Beatles suck.  I'm just making a point about theory.  However, all things being equal, if you want to work as a guitarist, the more you know, the more kinds of gigs you'll get.  
In this thread, we have a guitarist saying that he doesn't know what to play.  He's run out of ideas, is repeating what he does know, and he doesn't have confidence.  Pardon the corny reference, but it's like giving someone a fish or teaching them to fish.  Many teachers, even on the highest level, don't give students real tools to work with.  They just play and the student imitates.  That's better than staring at your navel in your own personal Groundhog Day, but if you want to expand your musical ideas, theory works.  I've seen a million guitarists, and the ones that work the most, know the most.  
But..... follow your own heart....
 

Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Paul Marossy

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2009, 07:28:03 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Wonderful

I got a ton from the scott henderson one



I did as well. He has a great and sensible approach to improvising.

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Mr. Wonderful

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2009, 09:11:31 AM »
so, prj (hope you don't mind the initials) so, basically, in the same post, you're saying that to be the best, you must know theory, and then, in counterpoint, that the best rock band ever (iyho) knew none. so, is it imperative, or superfluous?  not being a ****, just pointing out a weak point in your argument.

www.myspace.com/justaddwaterduo
 the , "weddings during wartime" and "baby baby" were both recorded with one of my pm 20's
p 38 black w/pearloid (named pearl), pm 20 in bubinga (3+3, named bubba), pm 20 tangerine (hockey stick, named crush)
www.myspace.com/justaddwaterduo
 the , "weddings during wartime" and "baby baby" were both recorded with one of my pm 20's
p 38 black w/pearloid (named pearl), pm 20 in bubinga (3+3, named bubba), pm 20 tangerine (hockey stick, named crush)

Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Paul Marossy

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2009, 10:35:59 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Wonderful

so, prj (hope you don't mind the initials) so, basically, in the same post, you're saying that to be the best, you must know theory, and then, in counterpoint, that the best rock band ever (iyho) knew none. so, is it imperative, or superfluous?  not being a ****, just pointing out a weak point in your argument.



Are you saying that the Beatles didn't know music theory? I find that hard to believe...

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Mr. Wonderful

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2009, 03:09:36 PM »
I make no assertions about sir paul's knowledge of music theory, I just like to argue

www.myspace.com/justaddwaterduo
 the , "weddings during wartime" and "baby baby" were both recorded with one of my pm 20's
p 38 black w/pearloid (named pearl), pm 20 in bubinga (3+3, named bubba), pm 20 tangerine (hockey stick, named crush)
www.myspace.com/justaddwaterduo
 the , "weddings during wartime" and "baby baby" were both recorded with one of my pm 20's
p 38 black w/pearloid (named pearl), pm 20 in bubinga (3+3, named bubba), pm 20 tangerine (hockey stick, named crush)

Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline Paul Marossy

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2009, 05:24:02 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Wonderful

I make no assertions about sir paul's knowledge of music theory, I just like to argue



Oh, you're one of those types, eh? [:D]

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Soloing Question: what scale?

Offline prjacobs

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Soloing Question: what scale?
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2009, 06:19:16 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Wonderful

so, prj (hope you don't mind the initials) so, basically, in the same post, you're saying that to be the best, you must know theory, and then, in counterpoint, that the best rock band ever (iyho) knew none. so, is it imperative, or superfluous?  not being a ****, just pointing out a weak point in your argument.

www.myspace.com/justaddwaterduo
 the , "weddings during wartime" and "baby baby" were both recorded with one of my pm 20's
p 38 black w/pearloid (named pearl), pm 20 in bubinga (3+3, named bubba), pm 20 tangerine (hockey stick, named crush)



Call me Paul.... And argue away[:)].  My point is that there are special artists that come along, and are so gifted that it's almost like the music is channelled through them.  And I'm not saying this is the only possible scenario, so please, hold your argument on this... Very few people "make it," and even fewer musicians are amazingly talented.  They are competent, and they become that way by putting in technical and theoretical work.  Ultimately, if you're going to build a life as a professional musician, you might want to know what you're doing.  That way you'll get more gigs.  If you're a one trick pony, you'll be left in the stable. (Sorry, I couldn't resist).  By the way, I went to your website and I liked your songs and duo a lot.  But, tell me, are you making a living from it?  I certainly hope so.  Very few musicians can make a sustained living from what they write.  They make a living playing other peoples music.  
So.... I didn't contradict myself at all.  You don't NEED to know theory to play music.  All you need is a love of music.  Music can be simple, from a theoretical, technical viewpoint and move you as much or more than music that requires years of study to learn. My point, however, is that if you want to make a career out of music,  IN GENERAL, you'll be more successful if you know theory, and can read music.  

And Paul (Morrossy)  The Beatles didn't know any theory.  My understanding is that Paul learned to read music, much later.  Also, they said that if it took longer than 2 hours to write a song, they'd scrap it.