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Author Topic: I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX  (Read 16025 times)

Offline wkcchampion

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« on: October 10, 2009, 05:38:53 AM »
I've been thinking about this for a loooooong time and I haven't found an answer yet.

The question is: why do a lot of people use truck-size pedalboards all fitted with single stompboxes, instead of using rack or floor-based processor (like my GT-10 or even more expensive, like Eventide ones)?

I just an't fin an answer1
Sound quality? Perhaps a single pedal (i.e. a particular overdrive) sounds different from what I have on the multiFX, that's ok, but u can add it and use it together with the MultiFx. But regarding FX, oh no, no way! These machines have a lot more options, like having, for example, 2 or 3 delays on all together at different settings.
Not to mention the worse quality of inpu/outputs and noise gates of stompboxes...

Flexibilty: here's the really big deal. You have to dance like a crazy to switch the pedals on and off.. with Assignments, I can activate like 4 or 5 or even 10 pedals if I want by just pressing one of the Control Buttons.... Example: CTL 1 pedal ---> EQ on, SOLO mode on, delay on, comp and boost on all together... let's say I wanna play a solo in this example. Try to do this on a pedalboard... don't make me laugh.
Example 2: foot voluem to zero ---> activate tuner. Example of automatism. And tehse are just basic things....
Not to mention the settings, I can recall a patch (i.e. different settings and FX) with the press of a single button, for every song or even for every part of a song if I need. Again, try to do this in a pedalboard... u have to set every knob differently for each song or have 3 pedals of each kind, absurd!

Cost: a Boss Gt-10 or similar floor-based multiFx costs 400-500 (new) bucks. Buy 3 (new) pedals (let's say: distortion, chorus, delay) and here u are, and u have 1/20th of the options available on those...

Memory and interaction with the computer: every multiFX unit allows to edit and create patches via software, back them up, exchange them with other people etc... all wit a few clicks. And knobs DO NOT move accidentally, they are just files in the unit's memory...

Weight: yes, multiFX do weigh, my Gt-10 is 6 kg I think. But hey, don't pedalboards weigh as well? They sure do, and some perhaps more.


Ok, I'm ready to hear your opinions about this, if u feel like.
I'm really curious if somebody can find pros for the stompboxes... I can't find any, sincerely.

---------
Pregno Splatter
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo :)
Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 Di Marzio PUs)
2 VOX AC30s (one CC2 and one CC2X) and Kustom Quad 100HD Full Stack
Boss GT-10
(more gear on my website)
---------
Marco

My Fly bridge setup guide:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-bURNmuDq2-a0VPd3lPZldwVmc/view?usp=sharing

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo (Fralin PUs)
"Eldy" / Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 PUs)
Various vintage and modern Marshall/Vox/Laney amps
Rockman + other rack stuff
Boss GT-100

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline Bill

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2009, 06:40:16 AM »
Fun question.

Mindset: I think it boils down to a similar perspective of why some people collect different flavors of individual tube amps while others think that is crazy and they buy one expensive and very good modeling amp.

Flexibility: If you grow tired of the distortion characteristics of one pedal, you sell it and buy another.

Price: Its a lot easier to come home and tell the wife you got a new pedal for 100 bucks -- and do that every 4 months--than it is to say you just had to bring home this 500 dollar multi processor that cost as much as your last home computer.

Gear whore factor: Lets face it. Everyone here is a gear whore. We keep saying that we seek that ultimate rig after which we will never need to acquire another piece. Baloney. After a few months we get board and crave to try something new. And new gear is always cheaper than divorce.

In fact as processors get better and more interactive (and they really are), I do think we will move away from the individual component mindset. But there will always be the holdout purest need to see and feel and tweak each separate physical component. Its part of the fun for some.

Others just want to make the most music with the least hassle. They will modulate and processortate and never look back.

A few Flys in my soup
A few Flys in my soup

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline CPB

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2009, 06:41:41 AM »
When you see a guitarist with a bunch of individual pedals... unless you know him personally how would you know when he got them?  They could be 10, 15, or 20 years old.  In other words, he had them long before the current powerful all-in-one units became popular, so he's used to them and doesn't know what he's missing or doesn't feel like making a change.
 

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline wkcchampion

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2009, 06:58:45 AM »
Hey Bill, I think that if u come home with a $2000 eventide processor, you can always tell your wife that it also irons, washes and cooks lol

---------
Pregno Splatter
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo :)
Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 Di Marzio PUs)
2 VOX AC30s (one CC2 and one CC2X) and Kustom Quad 100HD Full Stack
Boss GT-10
(more gear on my website)
---------
Marco

My Fly bridge setup guide:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-bURNmuDq2-a0VPd3lPZldwVmc/view?usp=sharing

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo (Fralin PUs)
"Eldy" / Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 PUs)
Various vintage and modern Marshall/Vox/Laney amps
Rockman + other rack stuff
Boss GT-100

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline gtrbmart

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2009, 08:57:07 AM »
Well, this also brings in the debate of analog vs digital.  Some people can't tell and digital processors are getting better and better but there are certain qualities that only an analog effect can produce.  Sure, digital processors can simulate it... but that's all it is - a simulation.  Not the REAL thing.

That being said, I've heard some digital processors' effects sound better than analog effects but it's more often vice versa.
If I were to ever get a multi-effects processor, it would be the AxeFX.
 

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline Paul Marossy

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2009, 09:19:50 AM »
I started out with pedals 20 years ago, and then went to multi-FX processors. Those caused me a lot of frustration because I couldn't get the sounds I wanted or they didn't sound good thru an amp. And a lot of of the factory presets sound WAY over processed, which sound worse thru an amp. So, about ten years ago, I went back to pedals and I won't look back. I have built a lot of DIY pedals that sound great and aren't easily recreated with a digital FX unit. Some very well known players use pedalboards - like Joe Satriani, Scott Henderson, etc. They don't have to do "pedalboard dancing" because they have people like Bob Bradshaw build them a master switcher. That's the route I would go if I were in that position. A lot of guys use a combination of pedals and digital FX, like "The Edge" for example. And pedals are also kind of modular. You want a Tube Screamer sound, you just put a Tube Screamer on your pedalboard. You don't have to tweak parameters in your digital FX unit for hours trying to get the sound you want. Maybe most people aren't that picky, but I am. [:I]

The only thing I use my digital FX units for anymore is recording direct in stereo with a few custom presets that I built from scratch. The other thing I like them for is the occassional experimental recording where I can have a 10 second reverb with 100% regeneration, or a ping-pong delay or something along those lines.

Basically, I use only pedals for playing live and generally only digital FX for recording. It's been my experience that guitar amps have a problem recreating the sound from a digital FX unit the way it sounds in headphones vs. thru the amp. I think that's a combination of lack of bandwidth and the frequency response of guitar speakers. [:(]

Anyway, to each his own. [8D]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
www.DIYguitarist.com
www.myspace.com/j201jams
http://improvisingguitarists.ning.com/profile/PaulMarossy
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 09:38:04 AM by Paul Marossy »

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline wkcchampion

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2009, 12:53:07 PM »
MultiFx sound better than single pedals, try a modern one and tell me. The simulation is getting so close that it's well over 99%. And they have much more options bla bla bla read above.

I bet 1000$ that if u buy a modern MultiFx u'll get sounds 99% close to your pedals. Or perhaps find even better ones.

I was of this idea to, but sincea bunch of years the digital modelling technology has way progressed. And every day it's improving....

Nowadays every record of major interest is made with high-level simulation software, drums are not even recorded anymore (I remember a friend working for a music shop that passed me a leaked 12-dvd software, not sold to the public, that is what Nickelback use to "record" drums. A drummer, basically)
First, 1/10 of the noise... each pedal adds quantization noise, analog or digital even worse. Each time you manipulate a signal, you add noise (Shannon).
MultiFx instead use a single microcontroller to do it all.

Nowadays talking about analog has no longer sense, since everything is digital, from instrumentation to recording to media (no more revox tapes). And today's algorithms are advanced enough to give excellent quality.

I think the major problem about multiFx is that people can't use them, as the most advanced are abit tricky to learn, as teh yare not plug and play. If u use, for example, Preamps in the input of your amp, then you haven't understood anything about it. And many people still do.

Regarding the DI recording VS amp, I could find a setting on the GT-10 that almost replicates the same sounds of the Preamps: I always use the LINE/PHONES output, and just switch the Speaker simulator off. Very close sound. Or just set the Global or Patch EQ to taste, in addition.

---------
Pregno Splatter
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo :)
Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 Di Marzio PUs)
2 VOX AC30s (one CC2 and one CC2X) and Kustom Quad 100HD Full Stack
Boss GT-10
(more gear on my website)
---------
Marco

My Fly bridge setup guide:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-bURNmuDq2-a0VPd3lPZldwVmc/view?usp=sharing

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo (Fralin PUs)
"Eldy" / Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 PUs)
Various vintage and modern Marshall/Vox/Laney amps
Rockman + other rack stuff
Boss GT-100

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline spider

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2009, 01:29:07 PM »
You'll have to pry the DM-2 and the Tube Screamer out of my cold, dead hands!
08 Parker Fly Deluxe in Galaxy Grey
And a bunch of other guitars that aren't getting played any more...

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline bno

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2009, 03:00:56 PM »
Personal preference.
'94 Fly Deluxe
Listen first, then play.

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline Paul Marossy

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2009, 03:35:39 PM »
I'd rather tweak a tone knob on a pedal than to have to go thru 20 menu screens to make a simple adjustment. We might as well throw out the tube amps, too, since they are now obsolete because someone has done an amp simulation that sounds better than the real thing. To some people, anyway.

I agree, it's a personal preference thing.

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
www.DIYguitarist.com
www.myspace.com/j201jams
http://improvisingguitarists.ning.com/profile/PaulMarossy

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline wkcchampion

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2009, 04:09:52 PM »
Well, there are tube amps and tube amps with modern functions. Think to the Randall MTS series, or Blackstar Series One for example. Wonderful amps, even though expensive. My AC30s sound wonderful, surely they do, as those amps do too, but lack many functions of such amps :(:(:(:(
The key is to keep what works and improve what doesn't, and introduce new tech advancements.

Obviously personal preference is a fact, one can prefer a device to another, exactly like two drivers of the same racing team may have different setups on their car (think to Massa and Raikkonen different driving styles). But OBJECTIVE facts must be taken into consideration, and here all pend thru the modern multiFX. And no-one can affirm that top-of-line processors sound worse than their counterparts, they surely don't nowadays (while they did 10 years ago). They have many parameters that can be tweaked, or make even fully customized stomp-boxes and automatic assignments. And they surely carry less noise (demonstrated by signal theory rules), yes dead quiet, especially vintage pedals tend to hiss 'cos they were made with old circuits.

To Paul: to adjust the tone knob on OD/DS, just press that button move the knob under the word "tone". It's as fast as yours...

This post is dedicated to whom tried both solutions, it wouldn't be fair.

That's another factor too: if u want to play and feel vintage, then u have to stuck to pedals, no question. If u really want to emulate that 60s or 70s or 80s band, u have to play like them... and modern gadgets will sound good, but will not give you the impression to be back at Woodstock in 1969... and some more harshness/dirtyness in the sound will help you to recreate that period.

---------
Pregno Splatter
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo :)
Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 Di Marzio PUs)
2 VOX AC30s (one CC2 and one CC2X) and Kustom Quad 100HD Full Stack
Boss GT-10
(more gear on my website)
---------
Marco

My Fly bridge setup guide:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-bURNmuDq2-a0VPd3lPZldwVmc/view?usp=sharing

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo (Fralin PUs)
"Eldy" / Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 PUs)
Various vintage and modern Marshall/Vox/Laney amps
Rockman + other rack stuff
Boss GT-100

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline bluffalo

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2009, 02:04:25 AM »
I go for flexibility and playability over tone. i think tone is overrated. I don't even like saying or typing the word tone.

Fly and Axe-Fx is a great combination for me.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 02:05:00 AM by bluffalo »
 

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline BrainWorm

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2009, 02:28:08 AM »
Pedals and pedalboards are like groupies, you can't have too many.

"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."
"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline wkcchampion

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2009, 02:37:49 AM »
lol @brainworm.... why can't I? XD

---------
Pregno Splatter
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo :)
Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 Di Marzio PUs)
2 VOX AC30s (one CC2 and one CC2X) and Kustom Quad 100HD Full Stack
Boss GT-10
(more gear on my website)
---------
Marco

My Fly bridge setup guide:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-bURNmuDq2-a0VPd3lPZldwVmc/view?usp=sharing

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo (Fralin PUs)
"Eldy" / Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 PUs)
Various vintage and modern Marshall/Vox/Laney amps
Rockman + other rack stuff
Boss GT-100

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline Noodler

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2009, 11:52:07 PM »
wkc - your argument that since so much is done with digital now that you might has well have your effects be digital too is invalid.  The problem with anything digital is that so much of what we do with guitars is still in the analog domain.  When you introduce digital processing it almost always includes A/D and D/A phases (conversion back and forth between the analog and digital realms).  This almost always results in signal degradation.  Even though there may not be any obvious noise (static, background hiss, whatever), you've taken a pure analog signal and sampled it before processing and then reassembled it to be output back as an analog signal.  This sampling of the analog signal is only an approximation of what was originally in your signal.  The arguments about this are like religious wars with some guys.

Now there are ways around this signal degradation using gear that stays digital for most of the process (as most studios do today), but most guitarists playing live are still dealing with an analog guitar feeding and analog power amp.  Anything that you put between those 2 pieces that is digital better have great A/D and D/A chips or you're sapping the life out of the tone you could be getting.

Of course this all comes down to what you hear and what inspires you to play your best and for some they're fine living with digital multi-effects units.  I have my share of both analog and digital stuff and find that I'm usually most inspired by the simplest signal chain and a tube amp.  I use the digital stuff when I record and I go digital "all the way" (so I try to keep the signal digital (using digital I/O) through the whole chain after it leaves my guitar and goes through the first A/D phase.