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Author Topic: I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX  (Read 16026 times)

Offline Noodler

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2009, 12:02:02 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by bluffalo

I go for flexibility and playability over tone. i think tone is overrated. I don't even like saying or typing the word tone.

Fly and Axe-Fx is a great combination for me.


Easy to say when you've got one of the best digital modeling and effects systems for guitars ever produced. [:D]

Not so easy to say when you're stuck with a low-end digital multi-fx unit.  They are getting better (I have a bunch of Line 6 stuff and am planning on picking up a Digitech GSP1101 (the poor man's Axe-Fx), but for me there's definitely something lost in the feel when playing through these units.

There's just something magical that happens when you plug a guitar straight into a nice low powered tube amp (which I have a few).  I think parallel effects loops (which give you the ability to keep some of the raw unprocessed signal) can make all the difference in the world.  They make digital processing acceptable for my needs.

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline simonlock

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2009, 12:25:55 AM »
For me it's all about the reaction. They feel different. Sound-wise well, I'm not a good judge because I don't worry much about it. With the ADA convertors there's a funny lag time, strange sustain and other things I can't really think of right now. When I was used to playing through the GNX I though it sounded good and it did but playing through analog was weird because of the different latency times and lack of sustain. Since the GNX had noise gate and compression it can become a bit of a crutch. When you go back to analog it'll be different. Depending on what you play it may not be easy to go back and forth.
 

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline bluffalo

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2009, 01:54:01 AM »
Another thing that I just remembered is that for a very long time, digital stuff has been built to a price point to sell for a profit. Line6 Probably could have, way back when, done a far better job, but they decided they could spend a small amount of money on the hardware and be "good enough" to sell for increased profit.

The axe-fx is pretty much the first thing that came along that wasnt a "cheap modeller"

I think early adopters of digital tried it and hated it and havent been interested since, with fair reason.
 

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline spider

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2009, 10:55:42 AM »
+1 Simon! My signal is simple for a reason....It sounds and feels really good! That said, I am sort of considering a TC Electronics G system. I like the different approach they take to the multi effect idea. An integration of your fav pedals and a multi effects unit with very flexible routing and patching options....It may just be the unit that pushes me over to the dark side!
08 Parker Fly Deluxe in Galaxy Grey
And a bunch of other guitars that aren't getting played any more...

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline wkcchampion

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2009, 11:23:37 AM »
Please beware that i'm not talking about cheap multifx units, but high-level ones... it's obvious that cheap ones sound fake, but it's also true that it's very difficult to distinguish between a high-one and the stompbox (which can be digital too, btw). But the stompboxes haven't all those flexibility and automatism... blabla again

---------
Pregno Splatter
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo :)
Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 Di Marzio PUs)
2 VOX AC30s (one CC2 and one CC2X) and Kustom Quad 100HD Full Stack
Boss GT-10
(more gear on my website)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 11:27:09 AM by wkcchampion »
---------
Marco

My Fly bridge setup guide:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-bURNmuDq2-a0VPd3lPZldwVmc/view?usp=sharing

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo (Fralin PUs)
"Eldy" / Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 PUs)
Various vintage and modern Marshall/Vox/Laney amps
Rockman + other rack stuff
Boss GT-100

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline Noodler

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2009, 02:47:43 PM »
The only digital multi-fx units I would consider high-end would stuff like the Axe-Fx, the new DigiDesign Eleven Rack, and some Lexicon and TC Electronic rack gear.

The DigiTech GSP1101 and RP1000, POD X3, and Boss GT-10 are what I would consider mid-tier processors - definitely not high-end.

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline wkcchampion

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2009, 03:54:46 PM »
Digitech and Lien6 are wore than Boss btw, and I would add Eventide too. But yes, also the differences in price. Boss and others are 400-500, Eventide and highest things are 2k bucks!

But I can assure you that Boss does things almost studio-quality (compared at least to popular sequencers).

---------
Pregno Splatter
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo :)
Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 Di Marzio PUs)
2 VOX AC30s (one CC2 and one CC2X) and Kustom Quad 100HD Full Stack
Boss GT-10
(more gear on my website)
---------
Marco

My Fly bridge setup guide:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-bURNmuDq2-a0VPd3lPZldwVmc/view?usp=sharing

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo (Fralin PUs)
"Eldy" / Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 PUs)
Various vintage and modern Marshall/Vox/Laney amps
Rockman + other rack stuff
Boss GT-100

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline Mr. Wonderful

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2009, 03:58:02 PM »
here's what I've never understood:  $2000.00 guitar, $1500.00 boutique tube amp, the finest cables money can buy, and six $50.00 stomp boxes in the middle of the signal chain.  a lot of "vintage analog" pedals are really low grade crap with crappy signal to noise ratios. yes ts 808 users I am talking about your baby.  I've really never understood why we've clung on to technology that died with communist russia myself.  Just my humble opinion. we want the latest and the greatest everything else, why not embrace the new????
www.myspace.com/justaddwaterduo
 the , "weddings during wartime" and "baby baby" were both recorded with one of my pm 20's
p 38 black w/pearloid (named pearl), pm 20 in bubinga (3+3, named bubba), pm 20 tangerine (hockey stick, named crush)

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline doombilly

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2009, 04:06:23 PM »
I think the board full of pedals is easier for people to interface with and get sounds they like. It is ALL of the choices you have with a multi that precisely makes it hard to sort out. I recently had my PODX3Live worked on and when I got it back everything sounded shrill and f'd up. Fortunately I had run a backup before sending it offf and was able to restore all my patches. It still did not sound right. It was a couple days later I noticed it had been set to output mode Combo Front instead of Stack Front. That did it. But that would not happen with a bunch pedals. you don't have to set a param like that. But then you can't restore patches for 20+ songs, models, etc... with the old school peds. It's kinda sick, at one point I had my POD talking to a server on teh interw3bz getting updates via USB. It's like the "self-professed redneck" in the cubicle told me about hunting last week and being in the deer stand with a laptop. Things have changed. No reason for you to unless you wanna.
For me it was reliability. In that eACH Of the individual pedals has its' own patch chords running to/fro. These seemed to always go out on me in inopportune times. Or the pedal power supply, or the multiple of batteries. Now of course if something happens like my pedal board goes down, like it did; I'm out of FX for 2 weeks. (I also had to drive about 6 hours to/from repair shop). If you have 20 pedals, you can pull one out and replace/repair without messing your whole deal up.
I took the time to just play into my amp. Since my Parker was also in the same town being repaired- it was a good "survival training" moment.
Like:
What-if, I bust a string and my pedal board p00ps out during a gig. Switch to Fender Mustang, crank gain on Tiny Terror & proceed with reckless abandon.
Party on Garths.


http://illicitizen.com

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline Paul Marossy

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2009, 06:29:51 PM »
quote:
The problem with anything digital is that so much of what we do with guitars is still in the analog domain. When you introduce digital processing it almost always includes A/D and D/A phases (conversion back and forth between the analog and digital realms). This almost always results in signal degradation. Even though there may not be any obvious noise (static, background hiss, whatever), you've taken a pure analog signal and sampled it before processing and then reassembled it to be output back as an analog signal. This sampling of the analog signal is only an approximation of what was originally in your signal. The arguments about this are like religious wars with some guys.


Yeah, and therefore, I declare "jihad"! [:D]

That's another more important point that I neglected to even think of initially. Even though sampling rates are much higher now and the sound quality is better as a result, the signal from any guitar is still analog and it goes thru a vegematic slicer/dicer/chopper before being reassembled at the output, as an analog signal.


quote:
Originally posted by simonlock

For me it's all about the reaction. They feel different. Sound-wise well, I'm not a good judge because I don't worry much about it. With the ADA convertors there's a funny lag time, strange sustain and other things I can't really think of right now.


I have noticed those things, too, and they are probably also factors why I really dislike using digital effects units thru an amp, and in general.

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
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« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 06:34:24 PM by Paul Marossy »

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline emamona

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2009, 08:14:32 AM »
Ehi!
Just in these days, I'm discovering the big world of simulation.
What about using modeling software, a PC (or better a MAC) and a low latency audio board (100 bucks), a usb-midi adapter (20 bucks from china) and a midi footboard (i have a digital rack, and I used some analogic pedal in past), then through PA or the amp?
About that, what you think?

(for vintage-ist: these models are really realistic: the vintage amps fuzz like the real one... I had a JCM2000DSL, and I cannot notice difference.... :D
A noticeable difference, in home playing,  is that my neighbours are happy: now in headset and not on 150w 4x12 cabinet .... :)
This evening I'll bring this setup in studio, let's see...

E.
 

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline mountaindewaddict

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2009, 08:58:55 AM »
I don't know why this has to be "either / or."  I take a "both / and" approach.  Let me tell you why.  I have a Digitech GNX4, and have about as many options in that as any other MFX unit on the market.  In the effects included in that machine is an envelope filter.  I would never plunck down the cash for a standalone envelope filter pedal, but because it came with the machine, I get to play around with it.  

On the other hand, I have very specific ideas about distortion, and just recently got a Way Huge Fat Sandwich distortion that I LOVE (sorry I haven't had time to do a video review for you all - too much reading for school).  I can set up the GNX4 to run in the effect loop of my amp and not use the modeling (just the modulation, filter, reverb and delay effects), and still use the Fat Sandwich and a Danelectro OD pedal on the front end.  The set-up sounds good.

For me, "both / and" is much more flexible than "either / or;" and as I dial in on certain sounds I want to have, I can buy pedals that fill that need.  In the mean time, I have the MFX unit to play with (and through).  I'll probably never get rid of it (it has a built in looper and MIDI drums), but I can see a time when it is just a back up.  That's my 2 cents anyway.

Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe (in Ruby Red), Digitech GNX4, other stuff...
God Bless!
Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe, Parker PDF60, Way Huge, Digitech / Hardwire, Line 6, Source Audio,T-Rex, and TC Electronic Pedals, Egnater amps, other stuff... God Bless!

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline wkcchampion

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2009, 09:03:16 AM »
@Doombilly
If a pedals breaks onstage, you stop playing as well. And I bet that stompboxes fail much easier than multifx.
Yes multifx are for engineers (like me), the average hobbyist has difficulties programming them. This is why I like them. I want the best, I've got the best.

---------
Pregno Splatter
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo :)
Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 Di Marzio PUs)
2 VOX AC30s (one CC2 and one CC2X) and Kustom Quad 100HD Full Stack
Boss GT-10
(more gear on my website)
---------
Marco

My Fly bridge setup guide:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-bURNmuDq2-a0VPd3lPZldwVmc/view?usp=sharing

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo (Fralin PUs)
"Eldy" / Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 PUs)
Various vintage and modern Marshall/Vox/Laney amps
Rockman + other rack stuff
Boss GT-100

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline lucgravely

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2009, 09:44:34 AM »
I can hear the difference between digital and analog. When I can no longer hear the difference I will move or entertain using digital modeling and effects. Now I will say digital modulation effects are ok. but I've yet been convinced by a simulated overdrive or amp model.
Luc Gravely
Parker Fly Mojo Singlecut
Parker NiteFly NV1
Mesa/Boogie Mark I
1966 Fender BandMaster
A few pedals...

I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX

Offline lucgravely

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I wanna laugh: single pedals Vs multiFX
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2009, 09:46:02 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by wkcchampion

@Doombilly
If a pedals breaks onstage, you stop playing as well. And I bet that stompboxes fail much easier than multifx.
Yes multifx are for engineers (like me), the average hobbyist has difficulties programming them. This is why I like them. I want the best, I've got the best.

---------
Pregno Splatter
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo :)
Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 Di Marzio PUs)
2 VOX AC30s (one CC2 and one CC2X) and Kustom Quad 100HD Full Stack
Boss GT-10
(more gear on my website)




I personally have my pedals in their own true bypass loops so if one dies I can bypass it and not miss a lick.
Luc Gravely
Parker Fly Mojo Singlecut
Parker NiteFly NV1
Mesa/Boogie Mark I
1966 Fender BandMaster
A few pedals...