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Author Topic: A parker guitar for jazz, please  (Read 10942 times)

Offline loumt123

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2005, 02:01:36 PM »
target tones has the CD included, thats pretty good for the price. I'll be sure to work on all variations of 7th chords in different inversions, and i emailed a local college to see if they have an improv class
 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline quakenut

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2005, 03:36:49 PM »
Sounds good. Last night I listened to the TT CD and was impressed with the lessons all over again, even though I've already internalized a high percentage of the material. Think I'll go back to it myself and fine tune. Once you internalize the material, start applying it to the melodic minor scale (and it's modes, if you think of scales in those terms) for some great new ideas as well.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 03:39:01 PM by quakenut »
 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline Paul Marossy

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2005, 04:32:54 PM »
Gotta love the Melodic Minor Scale! [8D]

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A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline loumt123

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2005, 04:56:01 PM »
sounds good [:D]
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 04:59:45 PM by loumt123 »
 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline quakenut

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2005, 03:01:37 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy

Gotta love the Melodic Minor Scale! [8D]



Ohhhh yeah!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 03:03:24 PM by quakenut »
 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline loumt123

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2005, 05:36:41 PM »
personally im not a fan of the melodic minor scale. I like harmonic minor much better because the 7th is raised both going up and down in the scale, and locrian and lydian becaus they sound a little...mysterious
 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline quakenut

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2005, 06:19:22 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

personally im not a fan of the melodic minor scale. I like harmonic minor much better because the 7th is raised both going up and down in the scale, and locrian and lydian becaus they sound a little...mysterious



In jazz, the melodic minor is more frequently used by far than the harmonic minor (which is more a staple of neoclassical shredding). You'll find modes of the melodic minor like: Lydian Flat 7, Super Locrian, etc, all over jazz music. The applications are varied, but are common to II V I progressions (used on the V chord), static Dominant 7th and Minor 7th vamps, as well as chord progressions with altered Dominant tension passing chords. Harmonic minor do have a place with those chord presentations as well, but again, it's not focused on nearly as much by jazz players. The melodic minor is simply more abstract and 'out' sounding, fitting the mood of the tension chords they are playing over better. Also, there are Locrian arpeggios to be found in the melodic minor scale, as well as Maj/min 7, and Maj7 #5, arpeggios that have great jazz application.  


If you're wanting to get more into jazz, you'll need to have proficiency of the melodic minor scale in your arsenal...and you'll have to probably end up liking the scale as well. [:D]
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 06:23:18 PM by quakenut »
 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline loumt123

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2005, 06:27:22 PM »
i'm aware of how it fits into jazz...and why it's used..just in general, i prefer those modes over the melodic minor, i just never liked the scale that much [xx(]. by the way you seem very knowledgable in jazz, did you study it for a long time?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 06:29:49 PM by loumt123 »
 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline quakenut

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2005, 06:43:37 PM »
What started my knowledge of jazz was the college improv classes I mentioned earlier, combined with some months of private study with local jazz/fusion guru Jeff Richman (disciple of Pat Metheny), and going to his gigs – discussing the technical elements of his performances. I was a music major at the time but after a few years lost focus and ended up going on a long hiatus for other pursuits. I’ve forgotten a lot of what I used to know, and have only gotten back into playing (rather superficially) over the last year or so. I must say, that since I bought my Fly Mojo, I’m playing more and more.[:)]

You mentioned liking the raised 7th up and down of the harmonic minor. I know that in more classical music the melodic minor is played ascending but played in natural minor descending. In case you don't know, the melodic minor is played ascending and descending in jazz (no natural minor). [:p]
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 06:47:30 PM by quakenut »
 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline loumt123

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2005, 08:01:58 PM »
Interesting, I didn't know it doesn't return to a natural minor scale descending in jazz. What discouraged you from pursuing music?
 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline loumt123

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2005, 08:30:18 PM »
By the way, does anyone know where i can find more complicated mode formulas, like super locrian, Dorian b2, Phrygian dominant, etc. Just what notes are raised and lowered in relation to the original mode. I would prefer formulas rather than patterns, as I would like to gain knowledge from it rather than not know what im playing [:D]. I'm willing to learn any crazy mode or scale...I am creating a practice regiment for myself [^]. Something I should have done a long time ago....
 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline quakenut

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2005, 12:27:45 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

Interesting, I didn't know it doesn't return to a natural minor scale descending in jazz. What discouraged you from pursuing music?



Even though I was passionate and dedicated to my music studies up to a point, I did not have that certain deep passion and commitment to pursue music as a career. That, and coupled with the fact that I saw really great players struggling to make a living, gave me the incentive to cultivate other career directions.
 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline quakenut

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2005, 12:30:42 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

By the way, does anyone know where i can find more complicated mode formulas, like super locrian, Dorian b2, Phrygian dominant, etc. Just what notes are raised and lowered in relation to the original mode. I would prefer formulas rather than patterns, as I would like to gain knowledge from it rather than not know what im playing [:D]. I'm willing to learn any crazy mode or scale...I am creating a practice regiment for myself [^]. Something I should have done a long time ago....



Not sure I can be much help since I’ve forgotten a lot of the detailed theory behind the melodic minor scale. But suffice to say, as you know, there’s only one scale and the modes are different starting and ending points for note of the scale.

What I used to do, for expediency sake, was to map out the different melodic minor scales to there most common usages in jazz chord progressions, e.g.: For a II V I progression in the key of C, I would play F melodic minor (or also known as G Dorian b2) on the V chord; or, also for the V chord, I’d use G# melodic minor, known as G Super Locrian. So in other words, I would memorize and affix F melodic minor and G# melodic minor to a C major scale, because I could always dependably count on that mixture when the need arose. If I was in a different key, the whole clump of scales would be shifted accordingly. Another example would be affixing a melodic minor to pentatonic scales. Take Santana’s Black Magic Woman: the song starts on D min then goes to A Dom7. Here I would blend D min pentatonic (or A natural minor) with A# melodic minor (or A Super Locrian) because that type of tension chord (in this case A Dom7) is always a part of many tunes that you can freely play a pentatonic on. This approach works for major pentatonics as well. Frampton’s Baby I Love Your Way is in the key of G but has it’s own tension chord when it goes to F Dom7, and here you would play C melodic minor (F Lydian b7). The proximity of the G major pentatonic and C melodic minor is the exact same relative scale pattern marriage that is found in the Santana song. These I found to be shortcuts that worked most of the time, so I relied less and less on the theory aspect, which can account for some of the atrophy of my knowledge. I would do even further melodic minor/major scale associations but I’ve probably confused you enough already.
 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline quakenut

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2005, 12:32:15 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by quakenut

quote:
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

By the way, does anyone know where i can find more complicated mode formulas, like super locrian, Dorian b2, Phrygian dominant, etc. Just what notes are raised and lowered in relation to the original mode. I would prefer formulas rather than patterns, as I would like to gain knowledge from it rather than not know what im playing [:D]. I'm willing to learn any crazy mode or scale...I am creating a practice regiment for myself [^]. Something I should have done a long time ago....



Not sure I can be much help since I’ve forgotten a lot of the detailed theory behind the melodic minor scale. But suffice to say, as you know, there’s only one scale and the modes are different starting and ending points for the notes of the scale.

What I used to do, for expediency sake, was to map out the different melodic minor scales to there most common usages in jazz chord progressions, e.g.: For a II V I progression in the key of C, I would play F melodic minor (or also known as G Dorian b2) on the V chord; or, also for the V chord, I’d use G# melodic minor, known as G Super Locrian. So in other words, I would memorize and affix F melodic minor and G# melodic minor to a C major scale, because I could always dependably count on that mixture when the need arose. If I was in a different key, the whole clump of scales would be shifted accordingly. Another example would be affixing a melodic minor to pentatonic scales. Take Santana’s Black Magic Woman: the song starts on D min then goes to A Dom7. Here I would blend D min pentatonic (or A natural minor) with A# melodic minor (or A Super Locrian) because that type of tension chord (in this case A Dom7) is always a part of many tunes that you can freely play a pentatonic on. This approach works for major pentatonics as well. Frampton’s Baby I Love Your Way is in the key of G but has it’s own tension chord when it goes to F Dom7, and here you would play C melodic minor (F Lydian b7). The proximity of the G major pentatonic and C melodic minor is the exact same relative scale pattern marriage that is found in the Santana song. These I found to be shortcuts that worked most of the time, so I relied less and less on the theory aspect, which can account for some of the atrophy of my knowledge. I would do even further melodic minor/major scale associations but I’ve probably confused you enough already.


 

A parker guitar for jazz, please

Offline Paul Marossy

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A parker guitar for jazz, please
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2005, 09:40:19 AM »
quote:
coupled with the fact that I saw really great players struggling to make a living, gave me the incentive to cultivate other career directions.


That's why I never tried going in that direction, too. But I was never that good when I was young and foolish anyway. [;)]

I think it also depends a lot on where you live. Here in Las Vegas, I know a few extremely talented guitar players (and other types of musicians) who were playing professionally for a while (up to 10 years +), but their finances were from day to day and they finally got tired of living that way and went on to teaching guitar, drums or doing something else altogether. They did have an outlet at church, though, which is how I met these guys. [8D]

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