Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly  (Read 26598 times)

Offline sybersitizen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2617
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2010, 10:41:07 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by mynameis905

Are Parker Fly guitars overpriced? Yes, they are and it seems that USM is "out of touch" with the "market"... Parkers are great for what they are, but are in fact overpriced by the manufacturer, overpriced by dealers, under valued by the "market", under valued by used dealers...they are a NOT a great investment in terms of turn-ability or for the average Joe.

The Fly is no more overpriced than any other guitar. In fact, the truth is quite the opposite. Ken Parker eventually decided to leave the business largely because 'We were building ten-thousand-dollar guitars for twenty-five hundred.' Parker's current VP of Manufacturing has stated that building a Fly involves 36 hours of hand work while a Les Paul requires 8 and a Strat requires 5. How could a company afford to build and sell such guitars at any lower price point?

Yes, we have all been saying that a Fly is NOT a great investment in terms of turn-ability - for any average or non-average Joe. (BTW, I think a little prior research should have shown you that. I checked out such stuff before buying my used Deluxe.) But you can't blame Parker for your disappointment in this. You can only blame 'the market' because the market is an idiot. The market doesn't much know or care how good Parkers really are. Guitar players who own Flys own them because they're unique and extraordinary, and we like using them. We don't care what the market thinks about it.

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline Voice Of Reason

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2010, 11:00:37 AM »
Difficulties in getting parts (especially outside the US) and quality service from dealers, along with problems documented on this forum makes it difficult for first-time buyers to take a risk.

Many dealers have dropped Parker for various reasons, including "they didn't sell". Think about it...pretty much everyone actually having an interest in buying a Fly has done their homework. The fly is an unusual (albeit incredible) instrument and being too different is both a blessing and curse.

Which reminds me of high school...[:D]

1998 Fly Classic
2003 Jackson DXMG
(heavily customized)
2004 Gibson SG standard
2004 Gibson LP standard
2008 Schecter Hellraiser C7
 (heavily customized)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 11:01:18 AM by Voice Of Reason »
1998 Fly Classic (my only Parker)

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline mynameis905

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2010, 01:06:34 PM »
This has been a great discussion! I also think that this has been a necessary discussion and a wonderful display of opinions have been expressed. I think this thread has been a great thread and certainly needs to be kept on the forum for future Fly owners and the like.

I think I am going to respectfully bow out of this thread for fear of making more enemies (if I had made any at all);).

I have appreciated everyone's input on this whole matter and hope to bump into you all in future posts.

For now, my Fly is still for sale and on the auction block. Reasonable offers are always welcomed.
I have a weekend coming up so I may decide to give the guitar another honest try ;)

I will let fate decide for me...and go from there...if it sells this weekend then I am sure the next guy will be more than pleased with this guitar. Maybe his/her fingers & ears will be more progressive than mine...lol! Then again, maybe I will begin a torrid love affair with my Fly...who knows?

Thank You so much everybody!

- 2008 Parker Fly MOJO
- 2001 Gibson PT Sig. SG
- Mesa Boogie DC-2
- Visual Sound H20
- Visual Sound Oil Can
- Visual Sound J/H

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline Strandwolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1809
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=577969013
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2010, 02:56:27 PM »
You're welcome, 905.

We Parkerites tend to be proud and paranoid and I figured that your initial post would be flamed to a crisp but our cooler heads or hands responded with calm rationality to everyone's benefit.

An example for our "leaders" and various pundits.
Parkers: Pick, cap, T-shirt, clock, and other assorted accouterments

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline mynameis905

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2010, 03:58:39 PM »
Much agree Strand wolf...much agreed.

Jack
- 2008 Parker Fly MOJO
- 2001 Gibson PT Sig. SG
- Mesa Boogie DC-2
- Visual Sound H20
- Visual Sound Oil Can
- Visual Sound J/H

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline Paul Marossy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7319
  • Excuse me while I kiss The Fly
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2010, 08:41:51 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by mynameis905

This has been a great discussion! I also think that this has been a necessary discussion and a wonderful display of opinions have been expressed. I think this thread has been a great thread and certainly needs to be kept on the forum for future Fly owners and the like.

I think I am going to respectfully bow out of this thread for fear of making more enemies (if I had made any at all);).


It's all good man. I hope it didn't seem like I was jumpin' on you, just tellin' it how I see it is all. [8D]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline jefsummers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2010, 09:43:23 PM »
Great discussion. I wonder... is there a problem with the supply of new Parkers? It seems that there is a wait for anyone ordering, there is only one music store in Tennessee (reminder, includes Nashville and Memphis!) that is a dealer, how in the world are people supposed to become familiar with Parker guitars when they don't see them? I think the retail price for a new guitar is reasonable considering the guitar you get, but that resale is low because you can get your hands on a shark shaped guitar easier than try a Parker. I understand - to increase production sometimes means investing in a whole new production line which can be prohibitive, but resale values will remain poor until people actually know to look for a Parker. That will hurt demand, as people do look at resale values when buying a guitar as they may want or need to sell later on.

I have an investment in my Parker Fly Deluxe as a workhorse guitar that is a tool for me to play for profit. That is an active investment, like a stethoscope for my day job. No one buys a stethoscope because of resale value.  I have an investment in my Parker Nitefly and in my 70's Hohner in that the Nitefly is signed by Roger Daltrey and the Hohner is signed by Johnny Cash. Those are passive investments, in cases.




1998 Parker Fly Deluxe
1997 Nitefly V2
2007? Italia Mondial
1995 Fender Std Strat w SCN pickups and GK2A
2002 Epiphone Dot
1999 Danelectro Hodad 12 string electric
1963 Gibson Melody Maker
Various acoustics
Marshall AVT150 with 1960A Lead Cab
Vox AD30
Boss GT-8, Roland GR-30
Parker DF 724
Parker Fly Deluxe
Nitefly V2
Italia Mondial
Fender Std Strat w SCN pickups and GK2A
Epiphone Dot w SD Jazz/JB
Danelectro Hodad 12 string electric
Epiphone Gary Clark Casino
Fender Jaguar Players Custom HH
1963 Gibson Melody Maker
Various acoustics
Marshall AVT150, ART T28, Bugera 333

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline sybersitizen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2617
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2010, 10:07:27 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by jefsummers

I wonder... is there a problem with the supply of new Parkers? It seems that there is a wait for anyone ordering...

This is a very interesting comment from just over a year ago, that I read for the first time today. It may shed some light...

BillyT: As it stands, we make about 1.5 - 2 Parkers a day. That is the extent of their sales, as we make them to order. I think it should be a much larger number, but the market determines this.

He must be referring only to the Fly, but that is still a miniscule production volume.

More here:

http://forums.parkerguitars.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9822

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline Voice Of Reason

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2010, 10:36:02 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by jefsummers

I wonder... is there a problem with the supply of new Parkers? It seems that there is a wait for anyone ordering...

quote:
This is a very interesting comment from just over a year ago, that I read for the first time today. It may shed some light...
BillyT: As it stands, we make about 1.5 - 2 Parkers a day. That is the extent of their sales, as we make them to order. I think it should be a much larger number, but the market determines this.

quote:

He must be referring only to the Fly, but that is still a miniscule production volume.



The largest supplier of Parkers in Eastern Canada still had, less than a year ago, 2006 models waiting to be sold (still might be the case). I saw the same model on display for three years. The demand sure does not appear overwhelming. Strangely enough, newer variations (quilt, limited editions, new colours) are offered, yet getting what you really want seems harder.

I don't know if this has been discussed, but prices for Parkers has been going up considerably over the last year with some major online retailers (Musicians Friend's, Sweetwater) in addition to smaller retailers here in Canada. In some cases, prices went up over 500$ from what they were a year ago. For instance, Fly Mojo Flames have gone up from 2999$ to 3,699.99 ... (Canadian $. For the same model). This is insane.

I don't know, but if the demand is not overwhelming, shouldn't the prices ...go down...or at least stay like they were?

1998 Fly Classic
2003 Jackson DXMG
(heavily customized)
2004 Gibson SG standard
2004 Gibson LP standard
2008 Schecter Hellraiser C7
 (heavily customized)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 10:50:46 PM by Voice Of Reason »
1998 Fly Classic (my only Parker)

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline sybersitizen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2617
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2010, 10:57:56 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Voice Of Reason

I don't know, but if the demand is not overwhelming, shouldn't the prices ...go down...or at least stay like they were?

Not necessarily. You have to consider 'economies of scale' meaning that if you can build and sell lots and lots of widgets, you can charge less for each widget and maintain profitability. If you're only building and selling a few widgets, the price per widget is very likely to go up.

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline Voice Of Reason

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2010, 11:10:32 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by sybersitizen

quote:
Originally posted by Voice Of Reason

I don't know, but if the demand is not overwhelming, shouldn't the prices ...go down...or at least stay like they were?

Not necessarily. You have to consider 'economies of scale' meaning that if you can build and sell lots and lots of widgets, you can charge less for each widget and maintain profitability. If you're only building and selling a few widgets, the price per widget is very likely to go up.

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard



So their rationale pretty much goes like this: "We are making fewer Flys, thus we expect or loyal fanbase to pay more for the same."

I think ebay is a good deal.

1998 Fly Classic
2003 Jackson DXMG
(heavily customized)
2004 Gibson SG standard
2004 Gibson LP standard
2008 Schecter Hellraiser C7
 (heavily customized)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 11:11:12 PM by Voice Of Reason »
1998 Fly Classic (my only Parker)

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline sybersitizen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2617
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2010, 11:38:05 PM »
I honestly don't think the company is abusing the fanbase at all. We're all aware that the Fly is a specialty guitar that is expensive to build, and it makes no sense for the factory to produce more than they can hope to sell. Since they have to build in low volume, they can't enjoy economies of scale and pass the savings on to their customers. If fewer and fewer guitars are being built, the price has to keep going up.

As you say, eBay is a good deal at this point; but only because the Fly is not attractive to the majority of guitar players - or not even on their radar. So far, this situation is working out to the advantage of Fly aficionados. As long as Parker finds it worthwhile to continue selling a few new guitars, all the bases will be covered. People who can afford those will buy them. Other people (like me) will continue to enjoy a huge discount by buying used.

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline Paul Marossy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7319
  • Excuse me while I kiss The Fly
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2010, 08:29:08 AM »
quote:
BillyT: As it stands, we make about 1.5 - 2 Parkers a day. That is the extent of their sales, as we make them to order. I think it should be a much larger number, but the market determines this.



That's only maybe 700 a year. Pretty much not even a blip on the radar for 99% of guitarists out there. I run into quite a few guitarists that have never even heard of Parker Guitars or of a Fly/Nitefly. This is very sad. [:(]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline sybersitizen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2617
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2010, 09:02:09 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy

That's only maybe 700 a year... This is very sad.

It's probably more like 500 a year unless the factory is open on weekends. But I don't know why this is sad. Is it important to any of us that the Fly be a popular instrument? As long as it's still being produced on demand at a competitive price, and parts remain available, and used ones are in good supply, what is the problem? Quite a few people in this forum buy boutique amps and effects that I've never heard of, but nobody worries about the popularity of those. I think we just have to accept that the Fly is a special instrument for special players. ;)

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly

Offline Bill

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4842
  • What is this ?
Overpriced with piss poor resale value! Parker Fly
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2010, 11:06:22 AM »
Well said.

A few Flys in my soup
A few Flys in my soup