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Author Topic: dumbed down fly or dragonfly  (Read 8018 times)

Offline Paul Marossy

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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2011, 08:05:49 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Patzag

Paul, I don't agree.  Going hard tail and no piezo is not de-parkerizing, it's just knowing what one wants


It's really a moot point AFAIAC. You can put the bridge in fixed mode and you're done. I know, some people will argue that it lessens sustain and all that, but it's splitting hairs IMO. I know some people don't care if they have piezos or not, too. You can just not use them, but they are they if you do want them. I've always seen the Fly as a very highly modified Strat design, and Strats have always had vibrato bridges, not that it matters for this conversation. [:D]

quote:
Originally posted by lucgravely
I never use the piezo, and never use the trem. I would prefer exactly what iwannaparker7string wants. I have a Single Cut, and while yes it has no piezo or trem, it's a little bulky and not as comfy to play as my Deluxe. The Fly brige is more comfy than a LP style stop tail piece. So a DF with a non-trem Fly bridge and without piezos would be a welcome model to the line, imo. I'd definitely be wanting to buy one!


Well, I'm sure that Parker Guitars as it is now would be happy to make you exactly what you want. It only takes money. [;)]

I'm just tired of hearing people complaining about some aspect of the Fly (not necessarily at this forum) and then making comparisons to other guitars like a "high end Strat" or a Les Paul and implying how they think the Fly would be better if it were more like those guitars. That's what sets apart the Fly, is that it IS NOT just another copy of some 50 year old design. And the Fly neck simply has no equal. It's like saying you wish your Formula 1 car was more like a Ford Mustang. They are two completely different animals. If you want a Mustang, trade your car in and get one instead of trying to make a 240 MPH race car into some production muscle car! I know, I probably sound pretty die hard, but it's a pretty simple equation for me. [8D]

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« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 08:13:15 PM by Paul Marossy »

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Offline iwannaparker7string

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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2011, 10:08:16 PM »
patzag, luc, bill, thank you for your input/support. If I ever do manage to custom order thing thing, I would be more than happy to put up pics/ full review/ and a sound demo for you guys. If I ever did pursue this of course (seeing that I'm not rich) I would have to part with my fly artist [:(] but we will see.

and patzag my names andrew if it makes things easier but i guess iwanna works lol
 

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Offline iwannaparker7string

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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2011, 11:26:53 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy

quote:
Originally posted by Patzag

Paul, I don't agree.  Going hard tail and no piezo is not de-parkerizing, it's just knowing what one wants


It's really a moot point AFAIAC. You can put the bridge in fixed mode and you're done. I know, some people will argue that it lessens sustain and all that, but it's splitting hairs IMO. I know some people don't care if they have piezos or not, too. You can just not use them, but they are they if you do want them. I've always seen the Fly as a very highly modified Strat design, and Strats have always had vibrato bridges, not that it matters for this conversation. [:D]

quote:
Originally posted by lucgravely
I never use the piezo, and never use the trem. I would prefer exactly what iwannaparker7string wants. I have a Single Cut, and while yes it has no piezo or trem, it's a little bulky and not as comfy to play as my Deluxe. The Fly brige is more comfy than a LP style stop tail piece. So a DF with a non-trem Fly bridge and without piezos would be a welcome model to the line, imo. I'd definitely be wanting to buy one!


Well, I'm sure that Parker Guitars as it is now would be happy to make you exactly what you want. It only takes money. [;)]

I'm just tired of hearing people complaining about some aspect of the Fly (not necessarily at this forum) and then making comparisons to other guitars like a "high end Strat" or a Les Paul and implying how they think the Fly would be better if it were more like those guitars. That's what sets apart the Fly, is that it IS NOT just another copy of some 50 year old design. And the Fly neck simply has no equal. It's like saying you wish your Formula 1 car was more like a Ford Mustang. They are two completely different animals. If you want a Mustang, trade your car in and get one instead of trying to make a 240 MPH race car into some production muscle car! I know, I probably sound pretty die hard, but it's a pretty simple equation for me. [8D]




If you wanna split hairs over the bridge, I never liked palm muting on the parker cast aluminum bridge. It almost feels like the strings play exactly on top of the bridge for palm mutes and I find myself choking up on my hand position at times to create better palm muting tone(and for comfort reasons too). In other words, palm muting at times on the parker bridge "completely" muffles the sound. this imo is a little annoying although its obviously still playable if you pay attention.

   Look I understand your sentiment. Trust me, I was the one griping about the bolt on's and floyd's and emg's etc. I know exactly what your thinking, "parker at this rate will eventually start selling $600 basswood bolt ons w emg's at guitar center so that little jimmy canw**k and ruin a good brand". But you know what? I understand that parker needs to diversify in order to keep up the main product which if we all agree on is the best guitar basically ever created. Don't misunderstand my personal tastes for complaining. I'm not. I think the fly is hands down the best guitar ever and I DO NOT EVER WANT IT TO BE GIBSON FENDER ETC. I just personally would like to see some things different about the fly's to suit MY needs. Maybe it might be better. Maybe not. I'm just saying I would like to try it, that's all, and if it is something that would work, I would like to see parker guitars reap it's benefits by selling more products because of people that want different options on their fly's.

FYI, I like the playability and feel of parkers, but I still like a stop tail bridge. You know of any other companies that have carbon fiber wraps with a stop tail? I don't but I'm pretty sure parker has the idea patented so the only thing I can do is ask them to see if they would make one. The biggest seller to me is that carbon fiber technology and glued ss frets....
 

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Offline bno

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« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2011, 12:18:11 PM »
Iwanna - iffen I wuz you, I'd keep an eye out for a hard tail to hit the market, gut it and set it up how you want - you'd probably be about 1500 all in with the exact pickups and wiring/switching scheme you want.  Getting a new custom ain't cheap.  Parker's new line-up already has their entry level pretty well mapped out.  (RIP Nitefly - 'sniff).  I agree with Bill, your custom configuration won't shave that much off retail.  Even back when I bought my first Fly getting the Standard only saved a couple hundred.  Looking back, I kinda wish I was one of the lucky owners of a Standard hard tail.  I'd put Bob Martin forward as the authority on this topic - as I think he actually has one of them.  

If you wanted to get really really specific and put a old school bridge on it so you can do your palm muting, gut the parts on a used one (and sell 'em), get a decent luthier to glue in a hardwood block/plug where the bridge is and mount a different bridge.  Heck - that's not a bad idea.  I'll bet if you really wanted them to (and opened your wallet wide), you could get a MaxxFly with a different bridge.
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Offline Paul Marossy

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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2011, 02:13:14 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by iwannaparker7string

If you wanna split hairs over the bridge, I never liked palm muting on the parker cast aluminum bridge. It almost feels like the strings play exactly on top of the bridge for palm mutes and I find myself choking up on my hand position at times to create better palm muting tone(and for comfort reasons too). In other words, palm muting at times on the parker bridge "completely" muffles the sound. this imo is a little annoying although its obviously still playable if you pay attention.


Yeah, it's hard for me to mute ALL the strings on my Parkers, but I find it easier to do that on a Parker bridge than a Floyd Rose type... but one of the Ibanez style licensed bridges wasn't so bad. Because of my right had technique, it's not easy for me to mute all the strings on any guitar. A hard tail isn't so bad, but I use my trem quite a lot, in a more subtle fashion and it's a must for me. I'm not a whammy nut or anything like that. But still, you can configure a Fly so it's essentially a fixed bridge if you want to.

quote:
Originally posted by iwannaparker7string

Look I understand your sentiment. Trust me, I was the one griping about the bolt on's and floyd's and emg's etc. I know exactly what your thinking, "parker at this rate will eventually start selling $600 basswood bolt ons w emg's at guitar center so that little jimmy canw**k and ruin a good brand". But you know what? I understand that parker needs to diversify in order to keep up the main product which if we all agree on is the best guitar basically ever created. Don't misunderstand my personal tastes for complaining. I'm not. I think the fly is hands down the best guitar ever and I DO NOT EVER WANT IT TO BE GIBSON FENDER ETC. I just personally would like to see some things different about the fly's to suit MY needs. Maybe it might be better. Maybe not. I'm just saying I would like to try it, that's all, and if it is something that would work, I would like to see parker guitars reap it's benefits by selling more products because of people that want different options on their fly's.


Understood. And yes, I don't want to see watered down $600 Parkers everywhere! I still say that a Parker guitar should not have conventional frets and fretboard, that's what sets apart a Parker. Take that away and now Parker is like any other brand. [:(!]

quote:
Originally posted by iwannaparker7string

FYI, I like the playability and feel of parkers, but I still like a stop tail bridge. You know of any other companies that have carbon fiber wraps with a stop tail? I don't but I'm pretty sure parker has the idea patented so the only thing I can do is ask them to see if they would make one. The biggest seller to me is that carbon fiber technology and glued ss frets....


It's all good. I know I was being kind hard headed earlier. I guess I'm just becoming a grumpy old fart. [:0]

Yeah, Parker did patent the idea of composite on the back of the body & neck, the bridge system, the piezo pickup saddles, the composite fretboard and the glued on frets. And the whole process of attaching the composite to the body. And the shape of the guitar is clearly shown in the patent documents as well. [;)]

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Offline iwannaparker7string

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« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2011, 04:20:01 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by bno

Iwanna - iffen I wuz you, I'd keep an eye out for a hard tail to hit the market, gut it and set it up how you want - you'd probably be about 1500 all in with the exact pickups and wiring/switching scheme you want.  Getting a new custom ain't cheap.  Parker's new line-up already has their entry level pretty well mapped out.  (RIP Nitefly - 'sniff).  I agree with Bill, your custom configuration won't shave that much off retail.  Even back when I bought my first Fly getting the Standard only saved a couple hundred.  Looking back, I kinda wish I was one of the lucky owners of a Standard hard tail.  I'd put Bob Martin forward as the authority on this topic - as I think he actually has one of them.  

If you wanted to get really really specific and put a old school bridge on it so you can do your palm muting, gut the parts on a used one (and sell 'em), get a decent luthier to glue in a hardwood block/plug where the bridge is and mount a different bridge.  Heck - that's not a bad idea.  I'll bet if you really wanted them to (and opened your wallet wide), you could get a MaxxFly with a different bridge.

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Listen first, then play.



Yeah I don't know we'll see. It's something I really wanna try to see if it would work. Truthfully in order to pay for a new custom parker I would have to part with my fly artist and I don't know if I could ever do that to be honest with you (unless I was really strapped for cash). It is something I debate whether I should risk or not but we'll see.

And Paul, again I understand how you feel. There's no bigger DB than me when it comes to changing the parker design but I've kind of grown receptive to the idea if it means saving the company. I think we both agree that having entry level parkers is better than not having any "real" fly's at all. That being said, I am all for experimentation with the original design as long as parker guitars never stop selling (and pushing) those original fly's. If they completely get away from that ever, then God help us [:(]
 

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Offline lucgravely

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« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2011, 07:41:57 PM »
A few here have grabbed a Single Cut on clist for $800 range. I really like mine. you may too.

Luc Gravely
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Offline jpleong

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« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2011, 08:38:21 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by lucgravely

A few here have grabbed a Single Cut on clist for $800 range. I really like mine. you may too.



I love mine... Everything except for the weight is perfect.

Regarding earlier postings about lowering the price, the FMS/PM60/Firefly is/was less expensive because it requires less labor to produce, not because it uses less/cheaper electronics or hardware.

The lack of an upper horn and less routing means less time spent on the pay-per-hour assembly line.

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Offline Paul Marossy

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« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2011, 09:04:03 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by jpleong
Regarding earlier postings about lowering the price, the FMS/PM60/Firefly is/was less expensive because it requires less labor to produce, not because it uses less/cheaper electronics or hardware.

The lack of an upper horn and less routing means less time spent on the pay-per-hour assembly line.


I don't remember how they do the shaping of the neck joint on a Fly after the neck is attached. Is that done with a CNC machine or by hand? Either way, there's definitely more labor involved with that Fly body than any other Parker offering. That's right, the hardware and electronics is a small part of the bigger picture.

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Offline mountaindewaddict

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« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2011, 10:05:23 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy
I don't remember how they do the shaping of the neck joint on a Fly after the neck is attached. Is that done with a CNC machine or by hand?
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Paul, it's both really.  The main shaping is done by machine, with final shaping / sanding by hand.  The drill two holes on the front of the guitar (in places that will eventually be routed out) to effectively pin the body with glued-in neck on the CNC machine so it doesn't move.  It makes for a much more consistent carve from instrument to instrument.  Once the main carving is done, it's hand sanded.  Which means, you're right about the upper horn adding more labor time.  The Fly back is probably one of the most complex designs in all guitardom.

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« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 10:07:03 AM by mountaindewaddict »
Casey

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Offline Paul Marossy

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« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2011, 11:52:54 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by mountaindewaddict

Paul, it's both really.  The main shaping is done by machine, with final shaping / sanding by hand.  The drill two holes on the front of the guitar (in places that will eventually be routed out) to effectively pin the body with glued-in neck on the CNC machine so it doesn't move.  It makes for a much more consistent carve from instrument to instrument.  Once the main carving is done, it's hand sanded.  Which means, you're right about the upper horn adding more labor time.  The Fly back is probably one of the most complex designs in all guitardom.


Yeah, that is what I thought, but couldn't remember for sure. The neck joint, although simple in its basic design, I think is the most labor intensive neck joint there is on any guitar because of all the shaping that has to be done. Hand sanding is probably a must for such a complex shape. It's not a big fat flat slab of wood like a Telecaster or something. [;)]

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« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 11:58:55 AM by Paul Marossy »

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Offline iwannaparker7string

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« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2011, 04:40:57 PM »
http://www.amazon.com/Parker-Fly-Mojo-Single-Flame/dp/B000M7IRYW


I found this link regarding the single cuts. it looks like they sold these things with the carbon fiber back and fingerboard at $2400 a piece. I would nab one in a dragonfly shape (or fly shape) if they made one but going back to what I said about mass producing these things w/out the ugly pick up rings and single cut shape, I think they would sell a bunch at this price range.
 

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Offline Paul Marossy

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« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2011, 04:52:35 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by iwannaparker7string

http://www.amazon.com/Parker-Fly-Mojo-Single-Flame/dp/B000M7IRYW


I found this link regarding the single cuts. it looks like they sold these things with the carbon fiber back and fingerboard at $2400 a piece. I would nab one in a dragonfly shape (or fly shape) if they made one but going back to what I said about mass producing these things w/out the ugly pick up rings and single cut shape, I think they would sell a bunch at this price range.


I don't think there is much of a difference between those and a Fly labor & material-wise.

I always saw that model as an offering to try and lure the Gibson types to buy a Parker.

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