Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Lithium Rechargeable Battery  (Read 5177 times)

Offline ZemanG2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« on: January 27, 2012, 05:38:42 PM »
Hey has anyone considered throwing in a lithium rechargeable battery like the new variax has in their pre-refined fly?

1998 Fly Classic
2007 Nitefly Mojo Flame
2005 Fly Mojo Single Cut
2009 Pm-20 Pro
Parker p10e
Martin 000-15ce
2001 Gibson Chet Atkins SST
I have guitars, most are beyond my playing level, but I love them all!

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline billy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 10:09:44 PM »
I don't really need to change mine that often, but I'd think about it if my battery life got a lot worse.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline ZemanG2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2012, 09:21:40 PM »
I'm debating it because when I changed the battery the terminals broke off. And I have one hell of a time taking my battery out, so something I could just drop and click in seems a bit more ideal for me.

1998 Fly Classic
2007 Nitefly Mojo Flame
2005 Fly Mojo Single Cut
2009 Pm-20 Pro
Parker p10e
Martin 000-15ce
2001 Gibson Chet Atkins SST
I have guitars, most are beyond my playing level, but I love them all!

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline Paul Marossy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7330
  • Excuse me while I kiss The Fly
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 09:37:33 AM »
Based on my own personal experience, I would stay away from rechargeable batteries.

A new 9V alkaline battery typically measures 9.5V, and that lithium battery will probably be under 9V when "fully" charged. And rechargeables don't usually last as long either, and when they run out of juice, they drop off way faster than an alkaline 9V battery does.

But what the heck, give it a try. Maybe they are better than they used to be?

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 09:38:04 AM by Paul Marossy »

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline ZemanG2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 09:45:35 PM »
I hear what you are saying about total charge, but I was look more like the style that is in some computers now, voltage wise, they are a bit stronger, but may not meet the needs. I came across a few problems.
1) MY old Fly is too thin to do anything extra in the battery area, as is the screw is already puncturing the 9V when it is in
2)Caring. I love the idea of just popping the battery in and out but I don't care that much
3) Undoing it if it goes wrong. I'm a stay at home dad right now and all my free time is in the middle of the night and I would literally kick something if I screwed up something late in the night and couldn't fix it

I might address this in a year but the biggest problem is lack of space, I would need a touch more than what is in there now.

1998 Fly Classic
2007 Nitefly Mojo Flame
2005 Fly Mojo Single Cut
2009 Pm-20 Pro
Parker p10e
Martin 000-15ce
2001 Gibson Chet Atkins SST
I have guitars, most are beyond my playing level, but I love them all!

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline Paul Marossy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7330
  • Excuse me while I kiss The Fly
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 08:45:37 AM »
I suppose you could always rig up a couple of wires to the battery snap in the guitar and have some big old battery sitting on the floor next to you. Would work for at-home playing... [:D]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline billy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 11:52:51 AM »
I think I get what you're saying now- you want to use a different style of battery all together, like (3) 3V coin cells wired in series to get 9V?  

Might work, but I don't know what the current or power requirements are for the fly preamp. Given the relatively long life of an alkaline 9V battery, I would say there's probably not that much demand on the battery, and the lower energy density of 3 or so coin cells might be enough.

You might also consider a lithium non-rechargable battery, but watch carefully for any potential of shorting, since lithium batteries can get really hot really fast!
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline ZemanG2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 12:18:55 PM »
Really the reason I want to change from the 9V is I have to spend 5 minutes prying the battery out. And since the wire to the battery just broke I was considering options since I have to replace it anyways.

1998 Fly Classic
2007 Nitefly Mojo Flame
2005 Fly Mojo Single Cut
2009 Pm-20 Pro
Parker p10e
Martin 000-15ce
2001 Gibson Chet Atkins SST
I have guitars, most are beyond my playing level, but I love them all!

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline Paul Marossy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7330
  • Excuse me while I kiss The Fly
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 12:37:21 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by billy

I think I get what you're saying now- you want to use a different style of battery all together, like (3) 3V coin cells wired in series to get 9V?  

Might work, but I don't know what the current or power requirements are for the fly preamp.


After looking at the datasheets for the IC chips in the Fly preamp circuit, I'm guessing that the current draw is probably around three to four milliamps. Maybe a little more for the pre-refined Fly circuit.

I looked a CR2032 datasheet ( http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/cr2032.pdf ), but I am not sure of how to calculate how long the battery would last if you used say (3) CR2032 batteries in series. I think you would have probably about 40 hours before the "tri-battery" depleted 1.5 volts, and so it might last about 120 hours before the voltage went down to 4.5 volts at which point the guitar will probably start sounding like poo poo. If my approximations are correct, that's a gain of only 20 hours over an alkaline 9V battery that should last about 100 hours. I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.

But going back to my earlier statement, at home you could rig up your guitar to a big honkin battery which could give you virtually unlimited milliamp hours, but it's not practical once you leave the house.

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 12:44:43 PM by Paul Marossy »

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline Paul Marossy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7330
  • Excuse me while I kiss The Fly
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 12:39:34 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by ZemanG2

Really the reason I want to change from the 9V is I have to spend 5 minutes prying the battery out. And since the wire to the battery just broke I was considering options since I have to replace it anyways.


If you have a refined Fly, I think you might be able to rig it up to use some other kind of internally mounted battery, with some tweaking of stuff. But it might not gain you any more hours of playing. It may in fact not last as long as a 9V battery depending on what you decide to use.

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 12:44:02 PM by Paul Marossy »

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline billy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 01:18:19 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy

quote:
Originally posted by billy

I think I get what you're saying now- you want to use a different style of battery all together, like (3) 3V coin cells wired in series to get 9V?  

Might work, but I don't know what the current or power requirements are for the fly preamp.


After looking at the datasheets for the IC chips in the Fly preamp circuit, I'm guessing that the current draw is probably around three to four milliamps. Maybe a little more for the pre-refined Fly circuit.

I looked a CR2032 datasheet ( http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/cr2032.pdf ), but I am not sure of how to calculate how long the battery would last if you used say (3) CR2032 batteries in series. I think you would have probably about 40 hours before the "tri-battery" depleted 1.5 volts, and so it might last about 120 hours before the voltage went down to 4.5 volts at which point the guitar will probably start sounding like poo poo. If my approximations are correct, that's a gain of only 20 hours over an alkaline 9V battery that should last about 100 hours. I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.

But going back to my earlier statement, at home you could rig up your guitar to a big honkin battery which could give you virtually unlimited milliamp hours, but it's not practical once you leave the house.

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams



Paul, that sounds about right for current draw.  A 9v battery is actually 6 aaaa batteries wired together internally.  

So, You might be able to do 3 2032 in series parallel with another 3 in series.  

But I think all he's looking to do here is avoid wrestling with the 9v in such a tight space by looking at other batteries and holders.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline Paul Marossy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7330
  • Excuse me while I kiss The Fly
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2012, 01:36:52 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by billy

Paul, that sounds about right for current draw.  A 9v battery is actually 6 aaaa batteries wired together internally.


Yes, I discovered that when I took one apart. Years ago before alkalines were everywhere I remember taking one apart and finding six little black "bricks" inside (this was in the mid-70s).

quote:
Originally posted by billy

So, You might be able to do 3 2032 in series parallel with another 3 in series.


That would double the milliamp hours, right?

quote:
Originally posted by billy

But I think all he's looking to do here is avoid wrestling with the 9v in such a tight space by looking at other batteries and holders.


Yeah, I know. I'm just thinking about the possibilities. [;)]

I do find that my pre-refined Fly is a much bigger pain in the rear when it comes to changing batteries than my Mojo Nitefly is.

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 01:43:13 PM by Paul Marossy »

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline ZemanG2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2012, 01:39:16 AM »
Mine is a pre-refined, and I really don't care about play time, especially if I could get a good re-chargeable source in there that is easy to get out. Honestly if I could just get the battery out that would help.

But thanks for the idea of a floor battery. Since I have so many guitars I rotate them so Each guitar gets two weeks and the battery gets taken out. But you guys are thinking the same way I am. I thought about doing 3-6 smaller batteries, but what I was really trying to think was something like a Sony Type G Lithium Ion NP-B6, or a D. Problem is width and 3.6 or 3.7v.. But then that is another nightmare trying to get the connectors in there.

So it isn't a power or battery life, but rather battery swapping, and getting it out efficiently. If I could do that then battery life wouldn't matter



http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Lithium-Rechargeable-Battery-Digital/dp/B000BOLHH0,

1998 Fly Classic
2007 Nitefly Mojo Flame
2005 Fly Mojo Single Cut
2009 Pm-20 Pro
Parker p10e
Martin 000-15ce
2001 Gibson Chet Atkins SST
I have guitars, most are beyond my playing level, but I love them all!

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline danjazzny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2919
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2012, 06:23:48 AM »
I'm not sure if I'm understanding your problem correctly. If your having trouble getting the battery out of the compartment you can stick a piece of scotch tape to the battery and fold the end over making a tab. Then you have something to pull the battery out with. Works for me. [:)]

'97 Alex Artist 4lbs12oz; '99 Simonized Artist 4lbs13oz; '97  TransRed Artist 4lbs9oz; '98 3-Tone Sunburst Artist (Hardtail)5lbs2oz; '99 Tobacco Sunburst Supreme 5lbs13oz; '09 Custom DragonFly 814 (Hardtail) 4lbs10oz; Line6 Flextone 3 Amp; Line 6 Vetta II Amp

'99 Simonized Artist 4lbs13oz; '97 TransRed Artist 4lbs9oz; '00 TransCherry Classic w/SD's 5lbs3oz; Line 6 Vetta II

Lithium Rechargeable Battery

Offline Paul Marossy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7330
  • Excuse me while I kiss The Fly
Lithium Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 09:05:47 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by danjazzny

I'm not sure if I'm understanding your problem correctly. If your having trouble getting the battery out of the compartment you can stick a piece of scotch tape to the battery and fold the end over making a tab. Then you have something to pull the battery out with. Works for me. [:)]


I was just thinking that as I was reading the post right before yours! Great idea. I should do that with the battery in my Fly. I usually have to pry it out with something.

It takes 3 or 4 minutes to change a battery on my Fly vs. about 45 seconds on my Mojo Nitefly. But the little LED on the back of the Fly tells me the status of the battery, so I just change it when I feel it's time or when I can tell by the sound that it's fixin' to croak. If the LED is always lit after plugging in the cord then I know for sure that the battery will become unusable in a matter of minutes. Problem is that I hardly ever check that LED when I plug in the cord. Guess I need to make that a habit as I don't want my battery to die in the middle of a service one day. That would be pretty awkward... [:0]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams