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Author Topic: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?  (Read 4831 times)

Offline Corey

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97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« on: July 25, 2016, 05:50:28 PM »
A Youtube video by Crimson guitars(bald guy with head tattoo's) shows heating up the frets with a soldering iron and removing them.

I have an original 97 Nitefly and have never had any frets fall off, unlike the newer production models, yet I would like large, stainless steel frets instead of the small ones that are on the guitar.

Has anyone ever looked into replacing the tiny frets with jumbo's on their Nitefly?

Thanks for any replies!

Corey

Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline sybersitizen

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2016, 06:17:06 PM »
Gotta say that sounds like a terrible idea to me. First off, where would the new ones come from?
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline TinMachine

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2016, 12:08:33 AM »
If you could source the company that made them,  sure. I've been trying to get this information for about a year,  so if you beat me to it,  let us all know. Otherwise you are good Mexican beer: SOL. 

Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline Piplodocus

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2016, 04:23:47 AM »
I thought all niteflies had jumbo. Flies have medium. They're definitely bigger on my niteflies than flies.
2004 Fly Mojo Flame (TTBB), 2014 Fly Mojo Flame (TBB), 2001 Customized Midifly (w/Tripleplay), 2001 HSS Swamp Ash Nitefly SA (NFVSA/SB), 2000 Mahogany Nitefly (NFVM/TR), 2007 Southern Nitefly (BS), mostly all modded, Bareknuckle pickups, and also a "needs work" shagged 97 Maple Nitefly...

Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline Piplodocus

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2016, 04:24:56 AM »
(And yeah, I'd NEVER think about screwing with any of their frets unless I had a problem that needed to be fixed)
2004 Fly Mojo Flame (TTBB), 2014 Fly Mojo Flame (TBB), 2001 Customized Midifly (w/Tripleplay), 2001 HSS Swamp Ash Nitefly SA (NFVSA/SB), 2000 Mahogany Nitefly (NFVM/TR), 2007 Southern Nitefly (BS), mostly all modded, Bareknuckle pickups, and also a "needs work" shagged 97 Maple Nitefly...

Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline Corey

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2016, 12:37:05 PM »
(And yeah, I'd NEVER think about screwing with any of their frets unless I had a problem that needed to be fixed)

The problem is the small frets. They are so tiny. Up at around the 16th fret to the 22nd it isn't the most concise and playable response!

I was thinking something along the lines of a Dunlop 6100 (.058" high) from the manufacturer who makes the Parker frets :

http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/FretSizePop.aspx

We could easily get together and pool an order from the company specifying the dimensions etc.  I have read many bulk group buys being accomodated by manufacturers for things like potentiometers(PEC from Digikey), pickguards(WD music) etc.

All we would have to do is confirm what type of adhesive to use because Parker has clearly cheaped out on this and rushed the installation in many of their later production guitars. This video is the proof :

http://www.parkerguitars.com/video/3-Adding-the-Carbon-Fiber-Fretboard.html


 Perhaps something as simple as contacting Ben Crowe from Crimson Custom guitars and confirming the best choice for the adhesive. He seems to know a lot about fret jobs on these glass-carbon fiber necks.

BTW, I am not afraid to do this modification myself. All you need to do is confirm the temperature of the soldering iron so you don't apply excess heat and get the same fret dimensions for the bottom of the frets. The neck itself is slotted in the middle under each fret so the precise placement will be perfect. It really is a matter of finding the Parker fret OEM source manufacturer and a permanent adhesive. Here is the video I am referring to :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMD39WKOuKo

Fret perfection has been a serious problem from Parker for many years and they should accommodate us customers by giving out their fret source manufacturer. Let someone engage in contacting Parker and if we can get at least 10 people from this forum who want to go with a nice, concise, playable jumbo fret we should be entitled to solve the problem completely! I'm sure Parker would be glad to get customer fret complaints off their back.

Corey

« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 01:34:14 PM by Corey »

Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline sybersitizen

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2016, 01:42:35 PM »
We could easily get together and pool an order from the company specifying the dimensions etc.

Confirm that first. If you can't actually get the material, nothing else matters.

Quote
All we would have to do is confirm what type of adhesive to use because Parker has clearly cheaped out on this and rushed the installation in many of their later production guitars. This video is the proof :

http://www.parkerguitars.com/video/3-Adding-the-Carbon-Fiber-Fretboard.html

I don't know why you think that video proves any 'cheaping out' occurred. The rush was necessary to complete the job within the adhesive setting time, so it was always necessary.

Quote
The neck itself is slotted in the middle under each fret so the precise placement will be perfect.

The placement is perfect, but the slot width is not perfect if you want wider frets.

Quote
It really is a matter of finding the Parker fret OEM source manufacturer and a permanent adhesive. Here is the video I am referring to :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMD39WKOuKo

Let someone engage in contacting Parker and if we can get at least 10 people from this forum who want to go with a nice, concise, playable jumbo fret we should be entitled to solve the problem completely! I'm sure Parker would be glad to get customer fret complaints off their back.

You're someone. Go for it. :)

Me personally - I'd prefer to sell the instrument and get something else that was built the way I like it.
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline Corey

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2016, 06:30:00 PM »
We have been living in the age of chemical engineering since the end of the second world war, yet Parker can't find an adhesive with a greater set time than 3 minutes? I don't buy it.

It is simply an example of inferior(and probably cheaper glue), inferior labour and the fruits of Parker frets falling off are the result. Crowe takes his time and does 1 fret at a time. Why the rush from Parker?

If we can group buy 400-500 fret wires from the Parker OEM supplier, they would be the same width, only taller. The slot that fits into the glass fiber is in the middle of the fret and doesn't encompass the entire fret width either.

Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline sybersitizen

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2016, 06:51:06 PM »
We have been living in the age of chemical engineering since the end of the second world war, yet Parker can't find an adhesive with a greater set time than 3 minutes? I don't buy it.

Buy whatever you like, and best of luck.  :)

Quote
If we can group buy 400-500 fret wires from the Parker OEM supplier, they would be the same width, only taller. The slot that fits into the glass fiber is in the middle of the fret and doesn't encompass the entire fret width either.

The last time I'll say this before I leave you to your fun: Establish a source for the materials first or nothing at all will come of your other ideas.
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline Big Swifty

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2016, 11:43:45 PM »
Crowe takes his time and does 1 fret at a time. Why the rush from Parker?

Crimson Custom Guitars is making an instructional video, Parker is showing a manufacturing process.

C'mon dude, really....

Big Swifty
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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline TinMachine

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2016, 11:44:47 PM »
And I'll reiterate.  I've been trying to get this answer for more than a year now. No luck and I have insiders at usm still. So yeah,  if you can find the original manufacturer somehow,  then sure,  we might have something here. Otherwise,  don't loose the ones you have.

Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline JamieCrain

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2016, 03:13:36 AM »
Crowe takes his time and does 1 fret at a time. Why the rush from Parker?

I'm gonna hazard a guess and say that it's everything to do with production efficiency and the normal business practice of trying to make a profit.

Although from my own painful experience, there was nothing rushed about getting a Parker ordered and built...
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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline billy

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2016, 11:09:58 AM »
(And yeah, I'd NEVER think about screwing with any of their frets unless I had a problem that needed to be fixed)

The problem is the small frets. They are so tiny. Up at around the 16th fret to the 22nd it isn't the most concise and playable response!

I was thinking something along the lines of a Dunlop 6100 (.058" high) from the manufacturer who makes the Parker frets :

http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/FretSizePop.aspx

We could easily get together and pool an order from the company specifying the dimensions etc.  I have read many bulk group buys being accomodated by manufacturers for things like potentiometers(PEC from Digikey), pickguards(WD music) etc.

All we would have to do is confirm what type of adhesive to use because Parker has clearly cheaped out on this and rushed the installation in many of their later production guitars. This video is the proof :

http://www.parkerguitars.com/video/3-Adding-the-Carbon-Fiber-Fretboard.html


 Perhaps something as simple as contacting Ben Crowe from Crimson Custom guitars and confirming the best choice for the adhesive. He seems to know a lot about fret jobs on these glass-carbon fiber necks.

BTW, I am not afraid to do this modification myself. All you need to do is confirm the temperature of the soldering iron so you don't apply excess heat and get the same fret dimensions for the bottom of the frets. The neck itself is slotted in the middle under each fret so the precise placement will be perfect. It really is a matter of finding the Parker fret OEM source manufacturer and a permanent adhesive. Here is the video I am referring to :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMD39WKOuKo

Fret perfection has been a serious problem from Parker for many years and they should accommodate us customers by giving out their fret source manufacturer. Let someone engage in contacting Parker and if we can get at least 10 people from this forum who want to go with a nice, concise, playable jumbo fret we should be entitled to solve the problem completely! I'm sure Parker would be glad to get customer fret complaints off their back.

Corey

Corey, I don't want to be that guy that piles on, but you are making a lot of assumptions.  Unfortunately, most of your assumptions are not good.

1.  There's lots of great info here about why a fret might fall off.  Its usually (not always) somehow related to a cleaning solvent or oil being used on the frets/fretboard.  (The ones that aren't related are pretty rare from what I've seen over the last 20 years.)  Fastfret, windex, rubbing alcohol are a no-no- they weaken the glue joint.  BTW if you bought used, it might take a while for the joint to fail, without any way of knowing who put what on your guitar prior.

A damp cloth is all you need to keep it clean.  Microfiber works especially well with a little dampness.  Out of 20-30k guitars, there are probably a handful that have had fret problems- the vast majority have awesome frets.

2. Crimson guitars does some really great work.  However, I was disappointed in the amount of research he did on this one; he was completely winging it and doesn't seem to know much about them at all. There's a good video from Parker on how to do it right on the site, last I checked.  Further, Ben could have just reglued the wonky frets and then leveled those if necessary.  But, he probably bills by the hour, and he was able to make it work in the end as a result of simply being patient with the glue and being good at leveling frets with the traditional methods.  All that aside, he has experience on 1 guitar that we know of.

3.  A longer cure time usually has nothing to do with the quality of the glue.  Cyanoacrylates cure quickly, as they are designed to- 3 mins is quite a long time.  And while it's simple to use these glues and get great performance from them, there are some key things to be aware of.  I know this firsthand because we used the same glues in manufacturing medical devices with extended warranties and performance requirements.

4.  You're going to have a hard time finding 500 people looking to get in on a group buy for frets.  You might find 5.  (Warmoth isn't a likely source, but I could be wrong.)  If I was as headstrong about this, I'd buy stainless frets with a tang and then get them milled flat on the bottom. Forming a curve in them should be great fun.  Be prepared to diy or $$$$.

5.  The neck is not slotted.  I believe there is a laser etch to allow for better adhesion of the glue.  I doubt the same bottom dimension is critical except in making sure you're centered.

6.  It sounds like someone did a leveling job on your frets already, but only you would know for sure.

I'm usually quick to encourage creative solutions to a problem but I really don't think you have all your ducks in a row.  I could go on, but what's the point?  I hope you continue to participate in the forum but I'd personally prefer seeing less criticism of design decisions based on incorrect assumptions.

Good luck if you decide to proceed!
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline TinMachine

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2016, 11:45:29 PM »
Amen

Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?

Offline Corey

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Re: 97' Nitefly fret replacment?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2016, 12:34:23 PM »


4.  You're going to have a hard time finding 500 people looking to get in on a group buy for frets.  You might find 5.  (Warmoth isn't a likely source, but I could be wrong.)


Billy,

Thanks for taking the time to write such an informative reply! Appreciate it.

You may have misunderstood me on the Parker OEM fret purchase. I didn't mean 500 people, I meant 500 fret wires, basically enough for 20 people. That should be reachable.

Let it be known that this modification to my guitar will be the last option I look into. I have to first get my pearly pickguard from WD music, satin Gold tuners from Sperzel and the Graphtech/Wiguitar saddles. If nobody else is interested in looking into finding a source for these frets I will do it myself but it may take me 5-6 months before I get around to it.

Anyways, this thread is here and not going anywhere. Perhaps it may inspire others to dream about transforming their Nitefly into the ultimate, playable, affordable, bolt-on neck guitar in the world!

Cor
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 12:36:40 PM by Corey »