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Author Topic: Re: Fabricating Fly Parts  (Read 3716 times)

Offline ZemanG2

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« on: October 27, 2016, 12:16:09 PM »
Hey guys, I'm in the middle of a project and turns out Fly parts are going extinct. But I have a few buddies with metal working skills and I was wondering if anyone has, or would be willing to let my guys borrow some parts to possibly make more. Springs are the first on my list. Unless Parker made their own metal mix for the springs they should not be hard to make with the proper tools.

Any interest? Any other parts people might think need to be made?
I have guitars, most are beyond my playing level, but I love them all!

Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline wkcchampion

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2016, 02:57:22 AM »
This is a great initiative! I hope it will turn into a profitable business or at least something positive!
---------
Marco

My Fly bridge setup guide:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-bURNmuDq2-a0VPd3lPZldwVmc/view?usp=sharing

Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo (Fralin PUs)
"Eldy" / Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 PUs)
Various vintage and modern Marshall/Vox/Laney amps
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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline billy

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2016, 12:50:47 PM »
cool- I have thought much the same thing about making new parts for a while now.

But springs are deceptively simple looking.  If I remember right, one of the key processes was tempering, both time/temp and when it happened relative to the forming processes. 

Otherwise, the old trem arm bushings would be a great thing to do, as well as the threaded slotted rod the tension wheel fits onto.  Tension wheel too.  All this just my opinion though.

I may have some parts I could loan, and alternatively, I could potentially provide a few 2d dimensional drawings that might be more useful.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline jb63

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2016, 05:17:29 PM »
I was asked a few spring questions a while back but got too busy to respond. I just compared an 8, 9, 10, 11 & 12 and they are all the same size and dimensions. 9 springs seem to be toughest to find, since those break easiest. I'd recommend starting with making springs, then move to all the other parts of the tremolo. You can find many of them on eBay, but really, taking apart the bridge and finding all those parts seems to be the killer of the idea.

How many different bridges are there? I have PDF, DF & pre-refined as well as refined and all look to be the same bridge, just different saddles. 

In any case, if you need parts, just ask. I'll donate!

Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline ZemanG2

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2016, 04:03:40 PM »
My main two concerns would be the Spring and then the same parts Billy mentioned.

What I was going to do was compare the 9 spring -11 spring. Size and shape should be the same but my speculation would be the thickness of the material. I'm sure heat and such play a part, but since these are just machined bent pieces I'm not over all to sure how much that goes into it. Then again that's what my friends are for :)

JB thanks for being willing to offer some parts! Given what my friends work station is the main areas of focus are simple things nothing aluminum cast etc. things that can be quick and easy.

I'm currently trying to get parts to put into a body from the factory and I need parts, so I don't think it hurts to ask if anyone else would be keen on parts.
I have guitars, most are beyond my playing level, but I love them all!

Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline billy

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2016, 06:08:26 PM »
Tempering is the thing that allows this bent piece of metal to actually be a spring.

Without it, you would snap the "spring" after your first 20 whammy bends.

The reason the process is tricky in this case is you can cause the desired bends and curves to relax if it happens at the wrong time and or temp.

I don't know for sure but there's probably a good bit of overcompensating involved as well as a little bit of dumb luck involved in dialing things in.

Happy to help if I can.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline ZemanG2

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2016, 07:38:40 AM »
Maybe I should ask the Maker:) I wonder if anyone knows someone who knows someone who knows a cousin sisters friend who made these. Then they could share some info
I have guitars, most are beyond my playing level, but I love them all!

Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline billy

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2016, 01:03:15 PM »
The maker would know.  :)

I'd look for flat spring/ tempering suppliers in Chicago/Wisconsin area. Pretty sure usm wasn't using the Boston area supplier because of the issues I mentioned earlier.

Btw, someone well versed in forming and tempering should have no trouble figuring it out. 
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline Big Swifty

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2016, 04:36:07 PM »
Ah, springs...

I remember the big spring debate of 2002...or was it 2003...

Anyways, here's a little info:

http://forums.parkerguitars.com/index.php/topic,15324.msg135570.html#msg135570

And further down that thread mountaindewaddict posted this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyTJ1NHc9z8

Check it out, they have a discussion on earlier spring inconsistency and a redesign of the fabrication process, if i recall correctly.

But basically, the number of bends in the design make it difficult to maintain consistency if the spring is tempered after the bending process, so they figured a way to bend the form from pre-tempered stock.

I think.

Anyways, i'm pretty sure the thickness of the stock remains the same, it's the width that's varied to give different strengths.

Good luck!

B.S.

EDIT: I think what they actually did was bend the s curve bits, temper it, then stamp the "apex" into the middle.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 07:55:24 PM by Big Swifty »
94 Fly Deluxe
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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline sybersitizen

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2016, 05:09:22 PM »
And further down that thread mountaindewaddict posted this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyTJ1NHc9z8

Check it out, they have a discussion on earlier spring inconsistency and a redesign of the fabrication process, if i recall correctly.

But basically, the number of bends in the design make it difficult to maintain consistency if the spring is tempered after the bending process, so they figured a way to bend the form from pre-tempered stock.

Good find! Now we know where the springs were made: Excel Spring Company ...

http://www.excelspring.com/index.html
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline ZemanG2

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2016, 02:35:35 PM »
That is some stuff right there!! Thanks. I knew there had to be a thread about springs somewhere.

And thanks man for the company behind them.

My fear is this little dream may be beyond the small shop my friend has.
I have guitars, most are beyond my playing level, but I love them all!

Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline billy

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2016, 05:52:51 PM »
I'm sure there's other parts he could do though!
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline ZemanG2

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2017, 08:49:48 PM »
Billy. I have a buddy whose dad fabricates parts for odd and end jobs. I don't mind asking him if he could make some parts, but I don't have spare just to take a quick picture of. The wheel tension spring assembly (wheel , screw , and t bar) and the term arms would be a good start if you could provide the wheel, and term arm pictures I could do the rest. It's a long shot but worth it.
I have guitars, most are beyond my playing level, but I love them all!

Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline billy

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2017, 07:27:53 AM »
Cool, I have some I can probably send. Might be easier to make a print, which I can do too.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Fabricating Fly Parts

Offline ZemanG2

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Re: Fabricating Fly Parts
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2017, 05:50:08 PM »
I will give him a call and see what he'd prefer.
I have guitars, most are beyond my playing level, but I love them all!