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Author Topic: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts  (Read 2210 times)

Offline IBbrianB

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Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« on: February 25, 2017, 05:17:39 PM »
So I have a 2012 Mojo. And like many Fly guys, I have had trouble keeping in tune while using the whammy bar. Both myself and my very skilled guitar doctor have tried everything. I even found the definitive, detailed guide to set up the bridge properly (posted here on the forums) and it still won't behave. The strings all return sharp after whammy use. (Some will blame the nut, but have tried several differently cut nuts).

At this point I am out of set up options and seriously have to consider either replacing parts - or going to an authorized service center. With parts, I don't know where I should start and/or where to acquire. With the Service Center option (looks like my nearest Guitar Center), I'm sure I will spend a fortune in bench time for the technician to even get to the point where I'm at now (no matter the set up, still won't function properly).

Any advice? HELP?!?!?

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline marcwormjim

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2017, 06:13:00 PM »
I'm pretty sure this messageboard is the closest thing to a service center; being as Parker went out of business a while ago.

Are your strings returning sharp only when you dive the bar, or only when you pull up on it?

What brand and gauge of strings are you using, in combination with which gauge spring?

With the trem in dive-only mode, do strings you bend a step or more in pitch with your fretting hand consistently return flat?
 

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline IBbrianB

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2017, 08:16:26 PM »
Thanks for the reply.
1 - The strings go sharp no matter how the bar is used.
2 - I use Elixir Nanoweb, 10-46 with 10 spring in the Fly. Changed often.
3 - Fret-hand string bending stays in tune well.
After assessing the first point, one would assume it was the nut, but that fact seems moot after seeing point three.

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline marcwormjim

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2017, 10:33:19 PM »
I apologize for all the questions - Problems with the Parker trem are tough to diagnose via text:

Based on what you say, the strings never go flat? As in, all strings return sharp; but never strings in one group returning sharp that cause opposite strings to go flat? Do the strings come back consistently sharp, no matter how the bar is used? Because, if it's random which strings are knocked out of tune, as well as how far sharp they return, and we've ruled out the nut, then you may have a bearing or post issue with your trem. I can't say for certain - But both have been reported on this board, before.

Also, to get another obvious one out of the way: Are the strings pulled taught, straight through the locking tuner, locked, then tuned up? Because there should be no wraps around the tuner posts.

Assuming you have the spring tension balanced so that a strobe tuner shows the strings remaining perfectly in-tune when you disengage the stop to go from dive-only to float, does divebombing, pulling up as far as you can, then rapidly using the bar up and down, then engaging the stop for dive-only mode yield the same degree of detuning as just dipping or pulling up on the bar?

I ask because returning to dive-only from all the whammy abuse I advised, then tuning all the strings a little flat in the order of D,G,A,B, then the Es should ideally result in the wild trem use resulting in their returning sharp to the point of being in-tune. From there, repeating the steps of wild whammy abuse, engaging the stop, detuning, going full-float, and repeating the bar abuse should result in progressively smaller increments of the strings going sharp, until it's calibrated.

If those steps result in the strings going just as much sharp each time, with the nut and tuners being conclusively ruled out, then you likely have unstable bearings or trem-mounting posts preventing the trem from returning to zero.

The following eBay seller bought Parker's stock of parts when they folded. Please contact him for any parts, once you've determined which need to be replaced, and let us know what happens.

http://stores.ebay.com/wiguitar


I use the Elixir Nanoweb Custom-Light set (9-46) on my '96 and '97 Flys, with no modification to the factory nuts, and find trem use stable once the strings are properly stretched and the trem calibrated to compensate for any strings returning detuned (old strat tricks with pulling up on the bar, etc.). That you're having the troubles you mention does seem to point toward a component of the trem failing to return to zero-position. But, again, that's something no one here can diagnose offhandedly.

I've sold and re-bought several Flys - They really are a treasure once you get everything running smoothly.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 10:35:52 PM by marcwormjim »
 

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline Patzag

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2017, 08:27:34 AM »
I would not discount the nut completely.  ANY binding of ANY string at the nut will result in the trem returning sharp.

If the trem returns sharp, even when pushing the whammy down, it seems like the only reasonable cause possible.
Teal Fly Classic 1998 / White Deluxe Hard Tail 1994 /Axe FX III

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline billy

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 11:42:07 AM »
As Marco mentioned, make sure you don't have any string wraps around the tuning post. You want less than a full wrap around the post, otherwise the string can bind against itself when the bar returns.

Also check the nut, per patz. I had an issue with nanowebs at the nut on mine, always returned sharp. I switched to uncoated strings and all is well. I like nanowebs though and will adjust my nut sometime soon to better accommodate. FYI The nuts were generally cut for 9s, plus the nanowebs are a hair thicker with the coating, so imho, the nut is your most likely issue. Based on your description, if you open the slots a bit I think you will be in great shape.

Failing all that, your trem bearings may be bad, again per Marco. However, bad bearings will generally cause you to sometimes return sharp, and sometimes flat. There are some good posts about that issue and replacing them here on the forum, try a search. 

A nut or string winding issue are most likely, after spring tension though. Marco comments about calibration are good too, so worth triple checking.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline IBbrianB

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 08:13:23 PM »
No windings on the posts, I understand how to use the Sperzels properly.
Spring tension is correct - following the detailed setup guide here.

I will do some more experiments, but since it only returns sharp, opening the nut slots a little sounds reasonable.

But after that, if it's still not working - parts are gonna fly.

Funny - the whammy was a big reason I wanted a Fly, after playing hardtails for the last 20 years.




Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline sybersitizen

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 08:41:45 PM »
I will do some more experiments, but since it only returns sharp, opening the nut slots a little sounds reasonable.

Regardless of the slot width, make sure to keep them lubricated. I use powdered graphite.
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline Noodler

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2017, 09:00:16 AM »
Note that the Fly trem system absolutely can work flawlessly, but there's a lot that can go wrong compared to a system like a Floyd (with the string locked down at both ends).  So stick with your efforts; it has to either be a setup issue or failing/failed parts (nut, bearings, posts, or saddles).

You didn't mention the saddles.  What type of saddles are on your Mojo (what material are they made out of; stainless or plated)?  If they are the shiny plated chromed type then there are known issues with binding at the saddle due to the strings chewing through the chrome plating.

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline JamieCrain

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2017, 02:24:55 PM »
Hi there,

I had EXACTLY the same issue with my 2013 NiteFly. I spent ages thinking it was the nut or the springs or bridge or something. It was none of those. It was the little black screws that adjust the friction on top of the tuning keys. I discovered that a few of them were loose, so i tightened them up and the problem disappeared!

The tuning keys are now harder to turn, but the tuning is never a problem now, no matter how hard i use the whammy.

Hope this helps
Jamie
Parker NiteFly RF622
Parker DFMV7
EB Music Man Majesty 6
Ibanez UV777BK

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline jb63

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2017, 04:29:38 PM »
I spent ages thinking it was the nut or the springs or bridge or something. It was none of those. It was the little black screws that adjust the friction on top of the tuning keys.

YES!
I was going to point to Jamie's post when I read this but he beat me to it. I had one guitar where I could not figure it out until I read (right here on the forum) what Jamie did. Solved the problem immediately!

Good luck!

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline IBbrianB

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2017, 11:01:11 PM »
JamieCrain - I think I owe you a steak & a beer! I can't believe that was the answer! After all this time and effort, I wouldn't have even thought the two things would be related. The tuning key friction screws were not very loose at all - nothing I would have thought twice about normally. I tightened them all up a bit, they are all quite 'stiff' now, but manageable. And now the darn thing stays in tune, even when I'm pretty violent with the bar!

So now I wonder if the problem all along is Sperzels not working properly?!?

But for now I don't care!
Oh happy day, happy day!
Thank you so much!!!

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline JamieCrain

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2017, 05:22:25 AM »
Glad to help, just returning the favour as others have helped me out on this forum when I've had problems.

BTW I don't think your sperzels are necessarily faulty, i think it's just the design. I had the same issue on both my Parkers.
Parker NiteFly RF622
Parker DFMV7
EB Music Man Majesty 6
Ibanez UV777BK

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline Noodler

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2017, 09:54:21 AM »
So I'm trying to wrap my head around this issue with the machine head screw tightness.  With a locking tuner, like the Sperzels, how does the tightness of the tuning button screw impact the tuning stability?  Why would a locking tuner still slip if this screw is loose?

Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts

Offline Noodler

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Re: Not the usual tuning problems - replacement parts
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2017, 10:12:59 AM »
So I'm trying to wrap my head around this issue with the machine head screw tightness.  With a locking tuner, like the Sperzels, how does the tightness of the tuning button screw impact the tuning stability?  Why would a locking tuner still slip if this screw is loose?

OK, so I answered my own question after experimenting a bit with one of my guitars.  I was just being dumb in thinking that the locking mechanism would not be impacted by the tension of the tuner.