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Author Topic: This looks wrong  (Read 314 times)

Offline ParkerPlayer

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This looks wrong
« on: April 29, 2017, 03:52:11 PM »
Hey ya'lls.  I found this Ebay auction for what appears to be the 10th Anniversary Fly.  I noticed something odd in the photo below.



I posted this question to the seller:
Q:     Regarding the ding in the back, lower area of the body, it appears the paint has been chipped away and the wood (or sealer) is exposed? Isn't the entire back of the guitar supposed to be covered in carbon and therefore black in color? what I'm seeing in the photo appears light brown colored. Any idea why?    Apr-29-17

and got this response form the seller...even odder than the picture:
A:     This one is a special parker.#20 of ? signed by Ken Wood grain clear coat top back and sides..Thats the only explanation id have for you..Its not like the other tradition bland carbon fiber backs

I hope someone can clear this up for me.  First of all, anyone who knows anything about the Parker Fly knows that THE most distinguishing feature of the Fly is the composite exo-skeleton.  I mean without that, you've got a really sleek-bodied guitar that is structurally unstable.  Am I right?

 

'96 Fly Classic, Cherry Red          '09 Artist, Custom Hard Tail          MIJ Strat           PRS Custom 22  
Mesa Amps (Express5:25, MarkV:25, Nomad45, DC-5)

Re: This looks wrong

Offline Mr303

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2017, 04:34:37 PM »
Escape is correct, my addlepated brain didn't make the connection.
I retract my blather...sorry.

Your sellers answer shows he can't describe the guitar accurately since that's not wood grain finish in the photo.
Nor is there a wood grain finish picture anywhere in the listing, and where is the photo you show?
 The 8th photo in his auction doesn't show that ding or are there two 10th anniversary editions being listed?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROTOTYPE-Parker-Fly-10th-Anniversary-1-of-only-25-Ever-made-/151816613731?hash=item2358f9af63:g:piMAAOSwMNxXaDh2

In your photo...
Whys that screw missing to the left of his finger?
Notice the wear on the intact screw?
Been in storage and the coating is worn off a screw head? Suspicious. Different than photo 8 too.
That's a "bland carbon fiber back" too ain't it?   Bland?,hardly!

Without the CF the guitar wouldn't stay together long.

Reflective light shows woven patterns on that back.
Looks deep enough of a chip that the CF could be missing entirely and you're seeing epoxy.( < that's my bet)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 08:49:35 PM by Mr303 »
'94 Fly hard tail
'97 Fly Deluxe
'08 PM20 Pro
PDF 105
PDF 70 modded

Re: This looks wrong

Offline sybersitizen

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2017, 06:57:03 PM »
The text in Mr303's listing says mint, and the listing photos look mint - so where did the photo of the damaged back with a missing screw come from? And why would you send someone a question about a ding when no ding is visible in the listing? Also, two different serial numbers are involved.

Seems like the two of you are discussing different listings.

Regardless, the seller's comments about clear coat and 'bland' carbon fiber backs mean nothing.
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Old Kraftsman Archtop|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Re: This looks wrong

Offline escape from gorilla city

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Re: This looks wrong

Offline Mr303

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2017, 08:51:06 PM »
Yup two different discussions.
That one didn't show up when I searched.
Sorry I had a long day at work.... the reflections still make it look like CF to me.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 08:58:39 PM by Mr303 »
'94 Fly hard tail
'97 Fly Deluxe
'08 PM20 Pro
PDF 105
PDF 70 modded

Re: This looks wrong

Offline jb63

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2017, 09:04:27 PM »
That looks like the ding went right through the carbon fibre.
I've seen one of those before. I checked all my dings and none of them did that but here's a look at how thick the carbon should look:

http://i64.tinypic.com/jsccjq.jpg

It looks like a pretty good player for a hard tail. Have him check the truss rod and show you a picture of the inside of the control cavity and then offer him $200 less and grab it up!

Re: This looks wrong

Offline sybersitizen

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2017, 10:03:21 PM »
I checked all my dings and none of them did that but here's a look at how thick the carbon should look:

http://i64.tinypic.com/jsccjq.jpg

Maybe. But that photo shows the strap lug area on the edge of the guitar. I thought the weave was trimmed and limited to these areas shown in one of the factory tour videos:



(In the same video, Terry explains that the thickness is about .02 inch - not hard to penetrate with a strong impact, I imagine.)

Here's another factory video. At about 2:03 you can see that the entire edge of the guitar is left uncoated:

https://youtu.be/Yt085421u_U
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Old Kraftsman Archtop|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Re: This looks wrong

Offline ParkerPlayer

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2017, 03:44:12 PM »
That looks like the ding went right through the carbon fibre.
I've seen one of those before. I checked all my dings and none of them did that but here's a look at how thick the carbon should look:
I actually don't think the ding went through any carbon fiber, here's why:  There's no splintering which is typical of carbon fiber damage, and I've seen a lot of those.  There's no evidence of a repair job either.
here's a typical example of damaged carbon fiber :

'96 Fly Classic, Cherry Red          '09 Artist, Custom Hard Tail          MIJ Strat           PRS Custom 22  
Mesa Amps (Express5:25, MarkV:25, Nomad45, DC-5)

Re: This looks wrong

Offline Nefarius

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2017, 03:29:42 AM »
Probably just sanded down at the edge prior to painting, I'd guess.

Greetings...
Nef

Re: This looks wrong

Offline billy

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 12:27:20 PM »
looks like the chip starts right at the edge of where the carbon stops, or it could be that it chipped in a way that JB mentions.  FWIW, the carbon doesn't wrap around the edge.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: This looks wrong

Offline JamieCrain

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 05:14:58 PM »
looks like the chip starts right at the edge of where the carbon stops, or it could be that it chipped in a way that JB mentions.  FWIW, the carbon doesn't wrap around the edge.
I agree with this. The CF on a fly is very thin, I doubt it has much strengthening capability. Its main benefit is additional resonance to compensate for the thin body. But they couldn't really say that in the marketing materials!
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Re: This looks wrong

Offline Mr303

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 09:05:50 PM »
looks like the chip starts right at the edge of where the carbon stops, or it could be that it chipped in a way that JB mentions.  FWIW, the carbon doesn't wrap around the edge.
I agree with this. The CF on a fly is very thin, I doubt it has much strengthening capability. Its main benefit is additional resonance to compensate for the thin body. But they couldn't really say that in the marketing materials!
After watching the factory tour on YouTube I saw one shot that shows the CF doesn't wrap to the edge of the radius, maybe 1/2" shy after sanding.

I beg to differ on CF strengthening ability, for example http://www.dexcraft.com/articles/carbon-fiber-composites/aluminium-vs-carbon-fiber-comparison-of-materials/ 

Since I see a woven pattern on my guitars I think what Parker used is considered two direction common modulus.
"Two direction CF is 2-5 times more rigid by weight". <Section 1 in the paragraph below bike frame photo above the stiffness to weight chart.

I once supervised installation of CF wrap on 6ft x 6ft concrete columns 20ft tall when we added three stories onto a five story concrete hotel.
 That single layer of two direction CF wrap increased the load carrying capacity 10 times for each column.
The surface prep took 2 men grinding for 8 hrs/column because of the rough surface of the columns.
Interesting reading if you like technical manuals and papers.
Cheers!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 09:32:02 PM by Mr303 »
'94 Fly hard tail
'97 Fly Deluxe
'08 PM20 Pro
PDF 105
PDF 70 modded

Re: This looks wrong

Offline billy

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 09:03:41 AM »
Yeah, I do think the CF changes the resonance a bit.  But as Mr303 describes, CF does add strength in a way that is hard to believe, especially relative to its weight.  Great info, I wish I had more of his insight on this!

Unfortunately, pretty much everything has an achilles heel and CF is no exception.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: This looks wrong

Offline Mr303

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2017, 04:06:01 PM »
Yeah, I do think the CF changes the resonance a bit.

Unfortunately, pretty much everything has an achilles heel and CF is no exception.

It would be an interesting experiment to take a standard guitar and add some CF to see what happens.
Forum member Taxguydave is building guitars now so I might rattle his cage and bond some CF to a pinecaster to see what happens.

You're right billy, but Achilles heel or not I don't want anything less than these dadblame composite geetars now.....as 2017 slowly dribbles away I wonder if and when the new lineup will debut.
'94 Fly hard tail
'97 Fly Deluxe
'08 PM20 Pro
PDF 105
PDF 70 modded

Re: This looks wrong

Offline billy

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Re: This looks wrong
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2017, 04:31:25 PM »
Yeah, that would be a cool experiment.  But, as I type, I think we already sort of have an answer- the DF742 vs a DF842. 

The bolt on neck might influence the sound a bit. Some might argue a lot.

Beyond that though, a comparison might offer an idea of what influence the cf has on the sound.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]