Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....  (Read 1139 times)

Offline CGzzz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« on: August 22, 2017, 11:01:54 AM »
I thought I was lucky when I found a new-in-box Fly Artist on Reverb...but when it arrived I was sad to see it had major delamination issues :-[. Is this even fixable?

If it is fixable, can anyone recommend a skilled tech with experience repairing this? I'd be happy to ship the guitar off, if someone has the skillset to make this better. I'm located in Austin TX if anyone is local...

Images:
http://imgur.com/a/cEB8a


Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline Piplodocus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
  • Well Parkers are a better addiction than skag...
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2017, 11:08:58 AM »
 :'(
2004 Fly Mojo Flame (TTBB), 2014 Fly Mojo Flame (TBB), 2001 Customized Midifly (w/Tripleplay), 2001 HSS Swamp Ash Nitefly SA (NFVSA/SB), 2000 Mahogany Nitefly (NFVM/TR), 2007 Southern Nitefly (BS), mostly all modded, Bareknuckle pickups, and also a "needs work" shagged 97 Maple Nitefly...

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline sybersitizen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2617
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 11:48:21 AM »
I've seen worse. Does the issue actually interfere with the playability - uneven frets, buzzing, vibrations?

It just might be possible to use a light application of superglue under both sides, clamping them as you go. I'm not sure.

In any case, if this was not shown and described in the Reverb listing, you have a very legitimate complaint against the seller.
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline CGzzz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 11:52:18 AM »
Yeah, it's definitely something I feel while holding the neck. Basically sharp edges all the way around. There is also one very uneven fret (16th). Otherwise it plays like a dream   :-\

The superglue option makes me a bit nervous. I'd be more comfortable sending it off to a tech with experience.

Yes, I could request a refund. It just arrived last night and I wanted to see what my options were for fixing it before requesting a refund. I've wanted this guitar a long time...hard to just give up on it, even though that's probably the smart option.

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline billy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1711
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 01:26:22 PM »
Man, what a bummer.  Do you know what year it is? 

Even if you don't ship it back, I'd try to get some $$ in return.  (That said, jb63 just posted that he's going to be selling a super sweet artist in primo condition, so maybe something to think about.)

At any rate, for repair, don't use superglue (or anything available at your local hardware/home store).  Superglue will work to even out the sharp edges on the paint, but it won't bond the fretboard to the wood.  It doesn't have the right shear/flex resistance.  It's also likely to create high spot underneath and make the gap worse wherever it ends up curing.

What I think you need is something called "panel adhesive," used for bonding carbon fiber/fiberglass auto body or marine parts to other things.  I remember posting here about something that I think should work, for a guy in the UK, but don't recall if he ever tried it.  I'll check for the link a bit later.

Not sure who you could send it to with a guarantee that it would be like new.  Your typical tech/luthier is probably not the right person either unfortunately.

I'd be willing to take a shot at it, but be aware I've never done this repair.  (Also, I'm not interested in painting it. The lack of appropriate space for me right now makes painting a bit difficult.)

So assuming I could repair the bond, you'd still see some of the paint damage, though it would likely be a lot less visible and I could level it out to make it feel smoother.   

Again, I'll reiterate that I haven't done this particular repair before but believe I understand the issues well enough to try.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline CGzzz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2017, 01:36:24 PM »
Man, what a bummer.  Do you know what year it is? 
Again, I'll reiterate that I haven't done this particular repair before but believe I understand the issues well enough to try.

Yeah, I may just ask the seller for a partial refund, but I can't even guess what the repair would cost.

I'm not sure what year it is. The seller said their store's last purchase was in 2011, so it's 2011 or earlier. The serial number starts with P07, if that helps?

And I think honestly, I'm more worried about the longevity rather than the looks. As-is, a small bump would chip the carbon fiber right off. I'd rather it be sealed down and solid (and maybe even look a little worse for wear) than in it's current state. Thanks for all the good info...I'll shoot you a private message with my email.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:06:41 PM by CGzzz »

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline jb63

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 534
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 05:16:41 PM »
I've seen and played way worse!
But it looks like you can still make this fly.
I thought about recently approaching Ed Roman's old shop in Las Vegas.
They do a LOT of business, and this might be a place that could handle it. When I was playing Steinbergers they had great advice and a wealth of Parts. Ed used to rave about Parkers, and I think most of his rants are online still. He's gone, but his shop might be able to help, if you just wanted to send to a luthier.

The single fret-issue is probably an easier fix, and billy's right about the neck and the paint. If you can heal all those spots and keep it even and playing right, you can always deal with the paint part later. I played my fall mojo with sharp pointy parts for about 4 months and then relegated it to a 'prepared guitar', playing it Fred Frith style and I still haven't decided how to deal with the fretboard replacement.

http://forums.parkerguitars.com/index.php/topic,15889.msg141452.html#msg141452

I guess the first thing you have to ask yourself is "will it get worse, or is it stable?"
After that, you, is the fretboard even enough that all it needs is some fill around the edges, some sanding and some paint?
How much more $, vs what you paid can you contribute?
After that, start looking for some $ from the seller or just return it!

Hope that helps!

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline CGzzz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 06:17:43 PM »
I guess the first thing you have to ask yourself is "will it get worse, or is it stable?"
After that, you, is the fretboard even enough that all it needs is some fill around the edges, some sanding and some paint?
How much more $, vs what you paid can you contribute?
After that, start looking for some $ from the seller or just return it!

Hope that helps!

It does help, thank you. I'm not sure about the fret issue...I assume it's because the board is peeling up so it'll only get worse?

As for sanding it, can you even sand the carbon fiber? I assumed it'd just explode (or do something else weird).

I'd like to get it fixed rather than give up, but if it's an extra $1000 I might as well just buy a full priced fly deluxe on ebay or something. We'll see what the seller can do on the price and see how it goes!

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline billy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1711
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2017, 09:18:40 AM »
Here's that link I promised. 

http://forums.parkerguitars.com/index.php/topic,16206.msg141861.html#msg141861

Looking at that thread, superglue is definitely not the way to do this.  There are glues that are specifically formulated for laminating carbon fiber to wood. 
(Very likely this bad batch was just a mixing issue with the gun or tube.  Easy to miss if you're not specifically looking for it.)

I don't think you'll need to have the fretboard removed, at least from what I see in the pictures. 

That makes the fix/clamping easier.  I thought of a way to clamp that doesn't involve vacuum bags but should still keep things level and uniform.

Your high fret is likely a paint chip or wood fiber that got lodged underneath the fretboard.  Doesn't take much!  Once removed, the fret should be fine.

jb, I'd be willing to take a crack at your mojo too.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline Patzag

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1605
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2017, 10:35:16 AM »
I hate to bear bad tidings but it will get worse.  It happened to one of my guitars and I had to send it in for repair, back when the custom shop still was in operation.

I wonder if any of the workers from that era are still around and would take it on.  Possibly Sharon at Shazrock might be able to either handle it or recommend someone who could.  And if anyone could locate the old team members, that might be a resource to get the guitar fixed.

On mine, they had to strip the fretboard and re-glue and repaint.  Yours looks marginally less problematic but once the seal is open, humidity and degenerating glue will warp the fretboard further.

It is a beautiful instrument so probably would be worth investing in repairing.  But if you can't find the right person, then negotiate a refund.
Teal Fly Classic 1998 / White Deluxe Hard Tail 1994 /Axe FX II

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline CGzzz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2017, 09:53:12 AM »
I hate to bear bad tidings but it will get worse.  It happened to one of my guitars and I had to send it in for repair, back when the custom shop still was in operation.

I wonder if any of the workers from that era are still around and would take it on.  Possibly Sharon at Shazrock might be able to either handle it or recommend someone who could.  And if anyone could locate the old team members, that might be a resource to get the guitar fixed.

On mine, they had to strip the fretboard and re-glue and repaint.  Yours looks marginally less problematic but once the seal is open, humidity and degenerating glue will warp the fretboard further.

It is a beautiful instrument so probably would be worth investing in repairing.  But if you can't find the right person, then negotiate a refund.

That's exactly what I was afraid of. The first quote I received was for $700~900. Not sure that's gonna pencil out, so I'm waiting to hear back from the seller on Reverb as to what my options are.

Thanks for all the advice so far, it's been really helpful. Hard to track down info about this specific issue and repair.

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline Mr303

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2017, 01:00:11 PM »
I hate to bear bad tidings but it will get worse.  It happened to one of my guitars and I had to send it in for repair, back when the custom shop still was in operation.

I wonder if any of the workers from that era are still around and would take it on.  Possibly Sharon at Shazrock might be able to either handle it or recommend someone who could.  And if anyone could locate the old team members, that might be a resource to get the guitar fixed.

On mine, they had to strip the fretboard and re-glue and repaint.  Yours looks marginally less problematic but once the seal is open, humidity and degenerating glue will warp the fretboard further.

It is a beautiful instrument so probably would be worth investing in repairing.  But if you can't find the right person, then negotiate a refund.

That's exactly what I was afraid of. The first quote I received was for $700~900. Not sure that's gonna pencil out, so I'm waiting to hear back from the seller on Reverb as to what my options are.

Thanks for all the advice so far, it's been really helpful. Hard to track down info about this specific issue and repair.

That's a costly turn of events.
Ever notice how once high tech always high tech and repair prices reflect that? 
The price of sound at 5lbs unfortunately.
Hope it all turns out well.
'94 Fly hard tail
'97 Fly Deluxe
'08 PM20 Pro 3x3 headstock
PDF 105
PDF 70 modded
and a few others that are boat anchors.
‘43 Epi Blackstone
Godin 5th ave p90

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline CGzzz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2017, 01:05:50 PM »
That's a costly turn of events.
Ever notice how once high tech always high tech and repair prices reflect that? 
The price of sound at 5lbs unfortunately.
Hope it all turns out well.

Yeah, it's funny. If you buy a 1990 Mercedes AMG, it still costs 3x more to replace the transmission. Doesn't matter that it's old.

Still waiting to hear back from the seller. I said I'd either accept a partial refund to offset the repair costs, or send it back. This guitar's fate is in his hands!

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline marcwormjim

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 94
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2017, 11:22:57 PM »
I understand the comment was offhand, but FYI Strandberg is the current "price of tone at 5lbs", with one I briefly owned weighing 4 lbs, 10oz.
 

Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....

Offline Mr303

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
Re: Fly Artist with glue delamination issue....
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2017, 03:26:53 PM »
I understand the comment was offhand, but FYI Strandberg is the current "price of tone at 5lbs", with one I briefly owned weighing 4 lbs, 10oz.
Yes indeed Strandberg makes lightweight beautiful instruments.
I played a Boden six string briefly at my local Guitar Center once and it was impressive.
They are harder to find and test drive than Parkers ever were.
'94 Fly hard tail
'97 Fly Deluxe
'08 PM20 Pro 3x3 headstock
PDF 105
PDF 70 modded
and a few others that are boat anchors.
‘43 Epi Blackstone
Godin 5th ave p90