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Author Topic: stolen pm20  (Read 864 times)

Offline jfe

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stolen pm20
« on: November 17, 2017, 05:11:36 AM »
hi all
first post -
been thinking about buying a pm20 for ages. ordered one over web from a used store in UK and when it turned up the serial number is scratched off. 

Worried about the obvious.  I had heard that some manufacturers scratch or remove the serial number on seconds.  This guitar has a small, and i mean small, finish bubble of the laquer i think, on the top end of the neck. 

So, wondering if it might be a second or whether I have bought a guitar that has at some point been stolen.  For the record it is a quilt maple (orangeish) colour.  Has a few dings but plays really well.

Have gone back to the shop to ask about provenence

thanks

Re: stolen pm20

Offline Barry

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    • Barry Eames, the, um, Legend
Re: stolen pm20
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 11:16:41 PM »
When you say "scratched off" do you mean it was sanded down to remove it completely, or scratched with a sharp implement?

Either way, in my experience, name brand guitar makers mark their "seconds" with something like an indelible over-stamp, either on the back of the head stock or possibly on an inside label if there is one.

Defacing a guitar would not make much sense for a manufacturer since it takes additional labour to do that and it would make it pretty much  unsalable afterwards. It's much simpler to stamp it and record that the serial number was sold as a second.

A scratched number would be suspicious to me. I don't know of a reason why a legitimate owner would do that. A logo perhaps, but not a serial number.
Love one woman, many vintage guitars.
Or...was it the other way around?

PM-20 Hornet Red Bubinga owner & recovering GAS addict

Re: stolen pm20

Offline JamieCrain

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Re: stolen pm20
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2017, 04:32:00 PM »
Serial numbers scratched off does not sound like a second to me. I think your first thought is closer to the mark.

Besides, releasing seconds to the market (and marked as such) is a risky strategy. It tells people something about your quality, and so could be brand-damaging. For high end product like Parker, I'd have thought this would be a no-go zone.
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Re: stolen pm20

Offline billy

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Re: stolen pm20
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2017, 04:50:00 PM »
I have seen seconds with the serial scraped off, though the B stock marking imho is much more professional looking.

Having done lots of manufacturing, the factory s/n logging system may allow them to "reuse" a serial from a "scrapped" guitar. 

I believe the pm series were imports so anything is possible.

Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: stolen pm20

Offline jfe

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Re: stolen pm20
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2017, 10:05:41 AM »
thanks all

It is scratched off  with some sort of implement - it has not gone through the lacquer coat but something has been removed.

Looking at pictures of other pms it seems like the scratched area is smaller  than that usually covered by headstock text.

I was trying to find a way to upload a photo - I will post when I get home  and figure it out

I have to say the guitar plays incredibly well and I have some nice guitars to compare. 

Re: stolen pm20

Offline Barry

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Re: stolen pm20
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2017, 04:40:38 PM »
...I have to say the guitar plays incredibly well and I have some nice guitars to compare.
Moral considerations aside for the moment, yep, it is an amazingly playable guitar. Great design.
Love one woman, many vintage guitars.
Or...was it the other way around?

PM-20 Hornet Red Bubinga owner & recovering GAS addict

Re: stolen pm20

Offline billy

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Re: stolen pm20
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2017, 09:23:51 AM »
Just to elaborate a little bit-  some companies order a “block” of serial numbers from the factory. It’s a way of managing scrap and defects. Eg, a defective guitar made with that kind of agreement will have the s/n and sometimes brand removed, and a new guitar will get that serial number. The “scrap” is destroyed or sold as b stock.

Still possible this is hot, but I doubt it.  Based on value alone, too risky for a store relative to profit. IMHO your confidence in the store should guide your feelings and actions.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]