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Author Topic: Bad news for 2018?  (Read 4541 times)

Offline Big Swifty

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2018, 07:26:20 PM »
YEah, i'd go with the more guitar stand/hanger friendly headstock, only because playing at the odd festival here and there, the backline guitar stand inevitably is something that requires normal size headstock for a sure grip...and other like situations.

I was unaware of the misaligned E tuner issue, gonna have to check my DF now...shows how much i use it i guess...

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Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline sybersitizen

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2018, 07:45:20 PM »
Just look at the new headstock and the fact that every one of the New Parkers low E string tuning peg was misaligned from the nut resulting in binding.  That is so lame it hurts.  Even after carefully going over this with Terry at the time of my custom orders, this was ignored and the same low quality misalignment came with my new Custom guitar!

I don't recall ever hearing about that either.

What is the exact nature of the misalignment? And is it somehow a direct result of the headstock change? In photos the posts seem to sit in the same relative positions as before.
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Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline Patzag

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2018, 08:21:37 PM »
I have no current way to post pictures but the low E post is not in line with the nut slot resulting in a break in the string direction.
I had this problem with my first custom and asked Terry - when we were going over the second one - to ensure this would not happen.  No dice despite promises.

Whatever - this is water under the bridge. And not really the result of the change in headstock design.  Just that the tuner positioning CNC template was screwed up and I could never get them to correct it.

I don't say that the headstock should ONLY be the original. I don't really care.  I just would be very disappointed if some group-think committee diluted Ken's ideas again.

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Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline vjmanzo

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2018, 10:36:25 PM »
I just would be very disappointed if some group-think committee diluted Ken's ideas again.

Agreed! The Fly was/is truly innovative; I'd love to see a literal reissue!  :o
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Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline alber.t

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2018, 02:34:39 AM »
I am a great admirer of classic design and Pre-USM guitars. I have played guitars from both worlds and in the end I always liked the first ones. I also think that USM managed to make good guitars especially when they had experience.

I think the difference is that the first PArkers were built thinking of the guitarists and the passion for music. USM were built thinking mainly of money. It's the difference between creative artist and big company.

I think the same as V.J. It is better to sell few but great guitars that sell many and many with errors. The guitarists always respected Parker, his comfortable neck, his stability ... but when creating other defective models especially the Asian series, PArker stopped having his magic and stained his legend.

IMO Parker is a Parker and the ideal would be to respect the design and include great new ideas that attract new users. If the guitar is well built and there is talent in it, users will appreciate and value it. And never forget that Parker will always be a different guitar with its own sound. Many guitarists wanted to turn it into Gibson or Fender and for that reason they did not want Parkers guitars. It takes a little time to learn how to use these guitars and when you get it, the rest of the guitars look like pieces of wood with strings.

I have great hopes in the talent of Billy and V.J

Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline billy

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2018, 10:47:25 AM »
I have no current way to post pictures but the low E post is not in line with the nut slot resulting in a break in the string direction.
I had this problem with my first custom and asked Terry - when we were going over the second one - to ensure this would not happen.  No dice despite promises.

Whatever - this is water under the bridge. And not really the result of the change in headstock design.  Just that the tuner positioning CNC template was screwed up and I could never get them to correct it.

I don't say that the headstock should ONLY be the original. I don't really care.  I just would be very disappointed if some group-think committee diluted Ken's ideas again.

I'm sure you remember Patrick, but for everyone else, I own that white custom DF now.  For the life of me, I can never remember what the number is.  845, 842, etc? Also not sure if that was the first or the second, but it's a great guitar.  There is a slight misalignment at the low e behind the nut.

But the cause isn't a wrong CNC template.  USM decided to make the neck and nut very slightly wider (and thicker) and didn't adjust the tuner centers to match.  This means both e strings are slightly out from the nut- the low e is thicker and shorter so it's easier to see.  The A and B strings are also very slightly out but very hard to notice.

The trig involved isn't too bad, but really I imagine that the 3D CAD files were a little touchy and so they decided not to mess with it.  Or maybe they didn't have room.  Or it was assigned to someone who never got around to it- there weren't that many people there who could do it and no doubt they were busy trying to make 7 strings, washburns, customs, etc.  One thing I know from miserable experience is Solidworks in those days didn't handle imported files as well as they do now.  (Which actually isn't saying much... lol)

It has not been a problem for me with binding at the nut.  One issue I have noticed is that the open high e buzzes very slightly if I tune to Eb, which now that I think about it could be due to the slight bend behind the nut. 

The survey is a great idea VJ, filled it out already!  In all, I find the top of the DF body shape more comfortable, but I like the pre-ref necks and overall pre-ref body thickness better.  And fwiw I love the old headstock with the old body, and the new headstock on the new body.  I don't like the new headstock on the old body at all.

I would also love to see and help with a parker reboot, though there are definitely some hurdles..! 

I definitely caution against "design by committee." I'm a product designer and try as hard as you can, you can't please everyone and usually end up pleasing no one.  Better to identify the problems, then find the solution that also fits all the other problems and solutions best.  Wherever possible, be Gestalt, and do no harm. 
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline sybersitizen

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2018, 10:59:03 AM »
While we're all fantasizing about a Parker relaunch, I'm curious: if Parker Guitars re-launched tomorrow what would people want/expect/be okay with?

I wonder who would support the further use of flex cables for the electronics. Maybe they were good for initial manufacturing (time/cost/space savings, presumably?) ... but didn't they disappear from every Parker after 'refining' occurred? Smart move or not?
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline vjmanzo

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2018, 11:15:47 AM »
I wonder who would support the further use of flex cables for the electronics.

I think that’s the “million-dollar idea”: reboot production of the flex cables and sell them to all of us forumites!!  :D
Fly Mojo (2005), Fly Deluxe [w/Sustainiac] (2007), Fly Mojo [w/Sustainiac] (2008), Fly Concert (1997), Fly Classic (2003), Fly Deluxe (1997), Fly Artist (2010), Fly Deluxe [redwood, hardtail] (1993), Fly Bass FB-4 (2003) || More Info

Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline billy

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2018, 12:21:58 PM »
While we're all fantasizing about a Parker relaunch, I'm curious: if Parker Guitars re-launched tomorrow what would people want/expect/be okay with?

I wonder who would support the further use of flex cables for the electronics. Maybe they were good for initial manufacturing (time/cost/space savings, presumably?) ... but didn't they disappear from every Parker after 'refining' occurred? Smart move or not?

They were extremely cutting edge at the time, and saved a rat's nest of complicated wiring.  Meaning huge savings in space and assembly times/efficiencies- the old pcb took up a lot more space than the newer ones.  It's genius, but they didn't know what they didn't know. 

E.g.:
In the early 90's I was working at a military radio assembly factory during my college summers.  Their brand new product at the time involved three pcbs joined by two flex cables, just like the ones in the fly.  These were like $1200 a set and no one wanted to work on them because they tore so easily and resulted in scrap.  So, they never told "the college kid" what they were worth until the end of the summer when they gave me a bunch of movie passes/dinner coupons as a reward for only trashing one set that summer, and dropping the assembly times to 30% of what they were before.  (Kind of cheap when you think about it but they also didn't have to do anything.)

Since that time, the industry has made many refinements to the design guidelines and materials for flex cables.  There is a much better industry standard of how to use flex effectively and today they could be made in a way that you would have to really try hard to tear them.  The old ones in the fly didn't have any type of strain relief, had tight radii, and weren't laid out quite right.

We could definitely do a complete reboot of the original cables. I personally think it's more appropriate to do something you could buy for say $15 and save your existing setup with wires only where you need/want them.  Maybe it makes it possible change up the wiring scheme too, without all the crazy connections to the pcb you'd have to do otherwise, but I don't know atm.  Either way, its a potential option, and you don't have to use one if you don't want one. ;)
Billy

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Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline sybersitizen

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2018, 01:52:42 PM »
^ So ... old flex bad - new flex good?

I've had no trouble with mine, BTW. I'm just aware of the grief and annoyance expressed by others when they tear as a result of loose pots or cause issues during modifications.
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Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline billy

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2018, 12:26:12 PM »
^ So ... old flex bad - new flex good?

I've had no trouble with mine, BTW. I'm just aware of the grief and annoyance expressed by others when they tear as a result of loose pots or cause issues during modifications.

It's all relative.  There's a few things that can predispose a pre-ref ribbon to early failure, including well intentioned adjustment of pot/jack fasteners a few years in, or even the initial positions that the outboard components were in when first assembled.  FWIW I never had any issues with the flex in the deluxe I used to own either but definitely sympathize with those who have.

A new flex design could certainly be done in a way that is significantly better in terms of reliability, and possibly customization options too, but perception based on past issues is a funny thing and difficult to change. 

My point is the flex cables were ingenious in the efficiencies they offered. But important failure mode knowledge didn't exist at the time of conception, and is often born of miserable experience.  So again, perception...

Alternatives from newer pcb designs available today make traditional wiring more efficient, though with it comes fewer control options, ie master vol, piezo tone. 

So IMHO flex would be a tough sell in guitars these days, but the right kind of approach and solid marketing (perhaps aimed at making "modular" circuit mods nearly on the fly) could help a lot too.
Billy

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Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline jefsummers

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2018, 08:50:55 PM »
My vote, original headstock and ship them with a Bullwinkle. Probably costs 2c in bulk.
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Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline Paul Marossy

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2018, 10:09:34 AM »
So IMHO flex would be a tough sell in guitars these days, but the right kind of approach and solid marketing (perhaps aimed at making "modular" circuit mods nearly on the fly) could help a lot too.

I don't think it would be that hard, they could use something like a low profile computer cable & connector. Just would require a little redesigning of the PCB for a different style of connector. Problem is that some day that probably will be unavailable too.

Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline billy

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2018, 12:36:17 PM »
I don't think doing such a cable/pcb would be hard at all. 

I'm saying it would be hard to get people to buy into it, as evidenced by many recent posts concerning the old electronics vs p2p.  You'd need some very good marketing reasons to make it attractive.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Bad news for 2018?

Offline JamieCrain

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Re: Bad news for 2018?
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2018, 04:24:04 PM »
Re cable, companies like Ernie Ball Music Man already do it. I replaced all the hardware in my EBMM Majesty recently and many of the electronics are connected using 3 or 4 pin cables, even the pickups. So easy to work with, I don't understand why it isn't the norm for more brands.

Re headstock, the original headstock would be a show-stopper for me because of practicality, however I can't imagine it's that hard for a good designer to find a way to tastefully incorporate a built-in "fan blade" that is hidden within or behind the headstock, and swivels out/retracts when you want to hang it/play it.
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