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Author Topic: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys  (Read 1033 times)

Offline JamieCrain

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Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« on: January 01, 2018, 03:18:05 PM »
Hi all, HNY!
Over the Christmas break I finally made a small but awesome mod to both my Parkers. I’ve always thought the push/pull coil tap on the tone pot was ergonomically poor. I.e. you have to grab the knob with finger and thumb or two fingers to activate it which means interrupted playing.

I have now swapped out the push/pull pots for push/*push* pots. Same size, same rating.

The guitars are transformed. Now I can simply tap the pot with finger or any part of my hand to activate the coil tap. Playability is vastly improved particularly when changing between heavy and clean tones.  No more interrupted playing!

The new pots cost less than $10 each and it took me less than one hour to do both guitars.
Parker NiteFly RF622
Parker DFMV7
EB Music Man Majesty 6
Ibanez UV777BK

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline Mossman

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2018, 03:23:15 PM »
That's brilliant.  Can you link to the pots you used?
1994 Fly Deluxe (Black)
1998 Fly Deluxe (Plum)
1999 Fly Deluxe (Green)
2006 Refined Fly Classic (Natural)
2008 Refined Fly Deluxe (Heather Grey)
1998 NiteFly NVF4 (White)
1999 NiteFly NVF7 (Black)
2000 NiteFly SA (Transparent Blue)
2006 NiteFly M (Oil & Wax)
2006 NiteFly SA (Sunburst)

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline JamieCrain

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2018, 08:14:31 PM »
Here’s a link to the same product sold out of the UK.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PUSH-PUSH-POT-A-B-250K-500K-SWITCH-FOR-PICKUP-COIL-TAPPING-SPLITTING-PHASING-/380960169813?var&hash=item0&_uhb=1

You just choose whether you want 250k or 500k, A or B type. I chose like for like, but could have been more adventurous.
Parker NiteFly RF622
Parker DFMV7
EB Music Man Majesty 6
Ibanez UV777BK

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline Mossman

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2018, 08:50:09 PM »
Too bad won't ship to Canada.  Thanks for the idea though, I'm sure I'll be able to find one.
1994 Fly Deluxe (Black)
1998 Fly Deluxe (Plum)
1999 Fly Deluxe (Green)
2006 Refined Fly Classic (Natural)
2008 Refined Fly Deluxe (Heather Grey)
1998 NiteFly NVF4 (White)
1999 NiteFly NVF7 (Black)
2000 NiteFly SA (Transparent Blue)
2006 NiteFly M (Oil & Wax)
2006 NiteFly SA (Sunburst)

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline Mossman

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2018, 08:59:26 PM »
I don't understand what "A" or "B" type means?  Also, what's the tone pot value on a refined fly?
1994 Fly Deluxe (Black)
1998 Fly Deluxe (Plum)
1999 Fly Deluxe (Green)
2006 Refined Fly Classic (Natural)
2008 Refined Fly Deluxe (Heather Grey)
1998 NiteFly NVF4 (White)
1999 NiteFly NVF7 (Black)
2000 NiteFly SA (Transparent Blue)
2006 NiteFly M (Oil & Wax)
2006 NiteFly SA (Sunburst)

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline JamieCrain

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2018, 12:24:59 AM »
A and B refer to the rate at which the pot changes. B is linear, A is logarithmic. For the linear version, the tone or volume will roll off evenly as you turn the knob. For the logarithmic, the change is lesser at the start but then a lot towards the end. I prefer the linear.

Re the pot values, this is from Seymour Duncan: “Humbuckers traditionally come with 500k volume and tone pots, wth .022 caps. Single coils traditionally use 250k pots. Remember, pickups were voiced/made to run at these values, changing the value changes their intended tone (good or bad is an opinion), as well as their output.

The odd thing is, both my Parkers use 250k pots despite having hot humbuckers. The value is usually printed on the side of the pot if you take a look.
Parker NiteFly RF622
Parker DFMV7
EB Music Man Majesty 6
Ibanez UV777BK

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline Mossman

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2018, 06:23:39 AM »
Thanks again Jamie.  I knew about the difference between audio and linear tapers, but I hadn't heard the A/B terminology before.  My 2006 Refined Classic has no markings on the pots that I can see.  The wiring diagrams on the Parker site show the pre-refined Flys having 500K for volume and 250K for (mag) tone.  The diagrams for refined Flys don't give any values for the pots.  Like you I'm happy with the sound so I don't want to change the value, especially accidentally. 
1994 Fly Deluxe (Black)
1998 Fly Deluxe (Plum)
1999 Fly Deluxe (Green)
2006 Refined Fly Classic (Natural)
2008 Refined Fly Deluxe (Heather Grey)
1998 NiteFly NVF4 (White)
1999 NiteFly NVF7 (Black)
2000 NiteFly SA (Transparent Blue)
2006 NiteFly M (Oil & Wax)
2006 NiteFly SA (Sunburst)

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline billy

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2018, 04:45:52 PM »
Cool mod, will check it out.

Just a little additional info-

Audio, or "A" pots, have a logarithmic curve designed to compensate for the way we hear. (Just like amp wattage, double the decibels is not perceived as double the loudness.)  Using a logarithmic pot makes the change throughout the rotation sound more linear, ymmv of course.

"B" pots are linear, and used where you have a direct correlation between input and output.  I also tend to prefer linear pots in my guitars, but either works ok for me personally.

There are also "C" pots, which are reverse, and "W" which I think are inverse log.

Volume pot values are pretty optional based on your pups and preferences- 250K are usually better for single coils, since that value rolls off a little bit of high end.  500k are usually better for humbuckers, and can brighten them up a bit.  No reason you can't switch them up though, nothing written in stone.  Usually your pup will come with a wiring diagram that includes suggested values.

Tone is usually best at 250k, and works along with a capacitor to determine what frequencies pass through. The capacitor value tends to make the most difference in this case, again, totally your preference.

Edited for c and w details
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 08:00:19 PM by billy »
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline Mossman

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2018, 05:11:16 PM »
More great info thanks.  I've ordered some 250K Bourne push/push pots (audio taper), and I plan to reuse the caps that are in place to keep it all as close to stock as I can.

CEJ
1994 Fly Deluxe (Black)
1998 Fly Deluxe (Plum)
1999 Fly Deluxe (Green)
2006 Refined Fly Classic (Natural)
2008 Refined Fly Deluxe (Heather Grey)
1998 NiteFly NVF4 (White)
1999 NiteFly NVF7 (Black)
2000 NiteFly SA (Transparent Blue)
2006 NiteFly M (Oil & Wax)
2006 NiteFly SA (Sunburst)

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline Mossman

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2018, 07:12:19 AM »
I've now put the Bourne push/push pots in my two Refined Flys and in the NiteFly M.  Huge improvement - now to switch to single I can just bump the pot with the edge of my hand. Thanks Jamie for the brilliant suggestion.

I also replaced the black 'chrome dome' knobs on all three guitars with the rubberized black NiteFly OEM knobs that Mike sells on Reverb.  For me they work so much better than the heavy slippery metal ones (I ride the volume knob quite a bit when playing live).  They also save quite a bit of weight - I was surprised that the metal knobs are over one ounce each, and the plastic weigh practically nothing.  Might not be noticeable (a bit over 1/8 lb net saving), but as I get on in years I'm appreciating "Flyweight" guitars more and more.
1994 Fly Deluxe (Black)
1998 Fly Deluxe (Plum)
1999 Fly Deluxe (Green)
2006 Refined Fly Classic (Natural)
2008 Refined Fly Deluxe (Heather Grey)
1998 NiteFly NVF4 (White)
1999 NiteFly NVF7 (Black)
2000 NiteFly SA (Transparent Blue)
2006 NiteFly M (Oil & Wax)
2006 NiteFly SA (Sunburst)

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline JamieCrain

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2018, 02:53:37 PM »
Cheers Mossman.
I got the idea off my musicman JP Majesty although ironically I don’t use the push/push on that guitar because the coil tap is wired into the pickup switch and only activates in the middle position which is brilliant. But that is another mod for another day!
Parker NiteFly RF622
Parker DFMV7
EB Music Man Majesty 6
Ibanez UV777BK

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline Mossman

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2018, 08:57:23 PM »
I guess that's like the pre-refined Fly?  Where the middle position is one coil from each of the buckers?  I like that sound, but on the older Flys I do miss the ability to get a true (well almost) single coil sound out of the split neck pickup alone...
1994 Fly Deluxe (Black)
1998 Fly Deluxe (Plum)
1999 Fly Deluxe (Green)
2006 Refined Fly Classic (Natural)
2008 Refined Fly Deluxe (Heather Grey)
1998 NiteFly NVF4 (White)
1999 NiteFly NVF7 (Black)
2000 NiteFly SA (Transparent Blue)
2006 NiteFly M (Oil & Wax)
2006 NiteFly SA (Sunburst)

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline JamieCrain

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2018, 09:53:29 PM »
Not sure about the pre refined fly but the Maj has three positions in a HH configuration. With no coil tap, the  switch is full bridge/full both/full neck. With the coil tap you get full bridge/both single coil in parallel/full neck.

It’s a great setup meaning I can switch from metal to strat like cleans without having to switch AND push the coil tap. I just leave the coil tap on.

I may set up my Parkers to do this one day.
Parker NiteFly RF622
Parker DFMV7
EB Music Man Majesty 6
Ibanez UV777BK

Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys

Offline Mossman

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Re: Simple but fantastic mod for Flys
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2018, 05:02:06 AM »
That is interesting.  Yeah I think the second mode you describe is what the original Fly does, and I do like the ease of going from fat humbuckers to a glassy thin stratty sound with just a switch flick.  But the Majesty's got the additional ability of having both HH full in the middle position, which the Pre-Refined Fly doesn't have (mind you I wouldn't have use for that).  But in both cases we can't have the neck single only, which is a very useful sound for me for cleaner bluesy stuff.  So in that sense I do prefer the Refined Fly arrangement with the push/push pot installed.
1994 Fly Deluxe (Black)
1998 Fly Deluxe (Plum)
1999 Fly Deluxe (Green)
2006 Refined Fly Classic (Natural)
2008 Refined Fly Deluxe (Heather Grey)
1998 NiteFly NVF4 (White)
1999 NiteFly NVF7 (Black)
2000 NiteFly SA (Transparent Blue)
2006 NiteFly M (Oil & Wax)
2006 NiteFly SA (Sunburst)