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Author Topic: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project  (Read 4280 times)

Offline jb63

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Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2018, 11:37:29 AM »
For some unknown reason (out of the blue) it occurred to me that you could do this to a Nitefly with no tension worries at all. That neck is a tank!

Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline vjmanzo

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Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2018, 12:12:43 PM »
Good thought! Thanks! I had the same one about a week ago; I don’t own a Nitefly, but I figured the bolt-on neck would be rock solid.

Long story short: after doing some tests, I think the main concern with the added tension is not the stability of the neck (Fly or Nitefly), but the notion of the truss rod anchor causing wood compression. I made a list of the Nitefly models with mahogany necks (harder wood than basswood) in case I couldn’t find a reasonably priced Fly Mojo, but I just recently found one to use for this project. Nice!

I’m working with a former student now to do some stress tests on mahogany to see at which tension the anchor causes wood compression.

The next steps after that are to work through making/modding some piezo sensors to put in our saddles. Graphtec wouldn’t sell me just the sensors, so we’ll either have to make our own sensors or try to unglue the Graphtec ones from the saddles they came with.

Once that’s done, I’ll string it up with six strings and make sure everything is cool and stable (block the bridge, etc.) before :: gulp :: we start practicing the headstock hole drilling! 

Fly Mojo '05, Fly Deluxe '07 w/Sustainiac, Fly Mojo '08 w/Sustainiac, Fly Concert '97, Fly Classic '03, Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Artist '10, Fly Deluxe Redwood '93, Fly Bass FB-4 '03, NiteFly NFV3 '97, Fly Mojo 12-string ‘11 || More Info

Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline mmmmgtr

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Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2018, 04:12:35 PM »
It seems to me that six more holes in that skinny headstock might present the biggest risk for failure.  May need to reinforce....
 

Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline vjmanzo

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Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2018, 04:24:17 PM »
Agreed. My initial thought is to put a steel plate between the tuners and the wood; Sperzel ships the D-Thing with an individual plate like this to help strengthen the wood. Other ideas?
Fly Mojo '05, Fly Deluxe '07 w/Sustainiac, Fly Mojo '08 w/Sustainiac, Fly Concert '97, Fly Classic '03, Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Artist '10, Fly Deluxe Redwood '93, Fly Bass FB-4 '03, NiteFly NFV3 '97, Fly Mojo 12-string ‘11 || More Info

Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline billy

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Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2018, 10:38:03 AM »
Aluminum is probably strong enough for a little tuning machine support, easier to work and lighter weight.  You might even try a 90 deg extrusion for a little more stiffness.  You might have to route a small lip on the top of the headstock to allow the tuner nuts to engage but I doubt that's a problem.
Billy

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Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline vjmanzo

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Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2018, 10:52:24 AM »
Thanks, Billy. Good suggestion; I’ll keep that in mind. I’ve got a Mojo to work with now, so we’re trying to ensure that the new bridge works properly while simultaneously testing the truss. We’ll start doing some practice holes on a block of mahogany, and, I think we can make an aluminum plate.

So many opportunities for this to all go wrong!   ::) I suppose if you see me make a post about my new “Fly Mojo wall clock”, you’ll know that we goofed  :)

Thanks!
Fly Mojo '05, Fly Deluxe '07 w/Sustainiac, Fly Mojo '08 w/Sustainiac, Fly Concert '97, Fly Classic '03, Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Artist '10, Fly Deluxe Redwood '93, Fly Bass FB-4 '03, NiteFly NFV3 '97, Fly Mojo 12-string ‘11 || More Info

Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline billy

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Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2018, 11:25:00 AM »
FWIW I think it's going to be pretty cool and you're taking good steps to check the potential issues.

I like the aluminum 90 deg extrusion since that bend makes it stronger without adding a lot of weight or material.  the local home store has it in various widths and lengths for about $10 or so. 

But I'm also interested to see what you guys come up with if you make your own.  ;)
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline vjmanzo

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Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2018, 11:58:05 AM »
Thanks, man.

Yes, I think the 90 degree aluminum extrusion concept is great! We'll probably pick one up locally and then drill holes. Thanks!
Fly Mojo '05, Fly Deluxe '07 w/Sustainiac, Fly Mojo '08 w/Sustainiac, Fly Concert '97, Fly Classic '03, Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Artist '10, Fly Deluxe Redwood '93, Fly Bass FB-4 '03, NiteFly NFV3 '97, Fly Mojo 12-string ‘11 || More Info

Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline vjmanzo

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Re: Tension Question for Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2018, 04:22:43 PM »
Hi everyone,

Just a quick update on the 12-string Fly project before a really detailed update later on:

After our first bridge prototypes, our team modeled the Fly headstock and devised a number of potential solutions to 1) fitting additional tuning pegs and 2) avoiding string collisions. Our full report (forthcoming!) will show all sots of approaches, but this was the one we decided to implement (shown here on a wood mockup):



Here is a better view with an acrylic mock-up:


Lots of holes in not a lot of space!  :o We were able to simulate the tension on the neck and found that we are well within the safe threshold for both mahogany and basswood, but went with a Mojo just to be safe. In order to add more rigidity to the headstock, we lasercut steel plates to cover the headstock, which helps to anchor the headstock and tuners together.



After coming up with more than 20 mock-up test models of the headstock in both wood and acrylic, we put on our brave faces and drilled holes in the headstock using a guiding piece we fabricated:





Then we put the plates on the headstock:


We opted to use these Sperzel tuning knobs with knurled buttons in both short-post and long-post varieties:




We have a few more things to do before it's playable, but I wanted to give a quick update because it's been a while.


We've also made a few observations that you may find interesting (or "obvious", or "dull as dirt"!  :D):

1. The string holes in the original Fly bridge don't really align 100% with the top point of contact of the saddles and it doesn't really seem to matter.



Our original bridge prototype didn't align 100% either, so we modified our saddle pieces and our bridge holes to both accommodate larger strings and align the holes better wit the saddle notches only to discover that even the original Fly bridges (we examined 7 Fly bridges) don't do this.





2. The Fly we're working with is a 2011 Fly Mojo...and after drilling new holes a few of my team members suspect that it actually has a basswood neck.



The existing tuning peg holes are lined with carbon fiber, but after cutting new holes, we see the color and woodgrain that doesn't really look like mahogany. Every woodworker I show this to says it's definitely not mahogany, and one said outright: "that looks like basswood or pine". This detail is somewhat irrelevant (I hope!) to this project because our tests suggested that a basswood neck could support the added tension, (and, personally, for a variety of reasons, I was hoping to do this mod to on a basswood neck Fly), but: wow! Isn't that interesting if this Fly Mojo with MM in the serial is actually a Fly Classic?!


More information soon! Thanks for reading!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 05:24:04 PM by vjmanzo »
Fly Mojo '05, Fly Deluxe '07 w/Sustainiac, Fly Mojo '08 w/Sustainiac, Fly Concert '97, Fly Classic '03, Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Artist '10, Fly Deluxe Redwood '93, Fly Bass FB-4 '03, NiteFly NFV3 '97, Fly Mojo 12-string ‘11 || More Info

Re: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline jb63

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Re: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2018, 07:10:40 PM »
"Isn't that interesting if this Fly Mojo with MM in the serial is actually a Fly Classic?!"

In 2011, I'm not surprised.

But I am really happy to read this giant post! I can't wait to read more!

Re: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline vjmanzo

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Re: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2018, 07:23:31 PM »
Thanks, man! It's been a long time coming, and I've learned a lot in the process, which I can happily share with the community!
Fly Mojo '05, Fly Deluxe '07 w/Sustainiac, Fly Mojo '08 w/Sustainiac, Fly Concert '97, Fly Classic '03, Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Artist '10, Fly Deluxe Redwood '93, Fly Bass FB-4 '03, NiteFly NFV3 '97, Fly Mojo 12-string ‘11 || More Info

Re: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline Patzag

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Re: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2018, 11:51:38 AM »
Best Thread ever!  Bated breath and all!
Teal Fly Classic 1998 / White Deluxe Hard Tail 1994 /Axe FX II

Re: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline vjmanzo

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Re: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2018, 12:02:05 PM »
Hahaha! Thanks, Patzag! We definitely appreciate the encouragement from you and everyone else on the forum! One step forward for Fly-obsessives worldwide!

Here are a couple more photos to help with the waiting!  ;D





There's no backplate on the back of the headstock, and we're trying to determine if it actually needs one.
Fly Mojo '05, Fly Deluxe '07 w/Sustainiac, Fly Mojo '08 w/Sustainiac, Fly Concert '97, Fly Classic '03, Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Artist '10, Fly Deluxe Redwood '93, Fly Bass FB-4 '03, NiteFly NFV3 '97, Fly Mojo 12-string ‘11 || More Info

Re: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline jb63

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Re: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2018, 12:15:13 PM »
I'm going with NO backplate needed! What gauge strings are you going to go with? I haven't played a 12 in so long I don't even remember what they usually were-- 11 on top?

Re: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project

Offline vjmanzo

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Re: Parker Fly 12-String Hybrid Project
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2018, 12:36:04 PM »
We're going with D'Addario 10’s (EJ38 12-string set) as follows:

String Note Gauge       Tension
1   E 4   0.0100 in.   16.22 lbs                                                                             
2   E 4   0.0100 in.   16.22 lbs                                                                             
3   B 3   0.0140 in.   17.85 lbs                                                                             
4   B 3   0.0140 in.   17.85 lbs                                                                             
5   G 3   0.0230 in.   27.90 lbs                                                                             
6   G 4   0.0080 in.   14.68 lbs                                                                             
7   D 3   0.0300 in.   26.71 lbs                                                                             
8   D 4   0.0120 in.   18.54 lbs                                                                             
9   A 2   0.0390 in.   24.66 lbs                                                                             
10   A 3   0.0180 in.   23.41 lbs                                                                             
11   E 2   0.0470 in.   19.91 lbs                                                                             
12   E 3   0.0270 in.   26.91 lbs

I think we'll be okay without it too, but we'll do some tests just to make sure. The first month of playing this will probably be in "Drop D" until I feel confident that it's not going to snap in half :)
Fly Mojo '05, Fly Deluxe '07 w/Sustainiac, Fly Mojo '08 w/Sustainiac, Fly Concert '97, Fly Classic '03, Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Artist '10, Fly Deluxe Redwood '93, Fly Bass FB-4 '03, NiteFly NFV3 '97, Fly Mojo 12-string ‘11 || More Info