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Author Topic: New Parker Owner  (Read 4013 times)

Offline billy

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2018, 02:10:17 PM »
This looks promising but I haven't tried one.

Radial Tonebone PZ-D, Dave Martone demo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkqMKMjgDlw
Billy

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Re: New Parker Owner

Offline axejock

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2018, 06:48:53 PM »
Great responses, but remember that having recently "restarted" my guitar activities, I am a long way behind most of you in technology and terminology. I have a Martin Accoustic with a Fishman electronics package, and I used to play that through a Fender Acoustosonic Amp. It sounded pretty good, but not awesome. I sold that amp and bought a new Boss Katana 100 212 Amp, which includes an accoustic amp model. It works well with the Martin, but I don't know how I would run the Parker piezos through that amp model on the Boss, and then run the magnetic pups through a standard, clean mode on the same ampl. I do not have a "Y" cable, which it sounds like something I need, and it also sounds like I need two amps, one of which should be a PA system or a regular amp with some sort of "effects box" (which I don't know a lot about yet). I have multiple "regular" amps, so if I ran the mags through one amp and ran the "Y" cable with the piezos to another amp through some sort pf effects box, would I get the sound differential...ie: more accoustic sound from the piezos? I'm displaying my naievity, here, but gotta learn someway. The Parker is truly worth learning all of the details on!

Re: New Parker Owner

Online sybersitizen

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2018, 09:37:06 AM »
It doesn't have to be complicated.

If you want something approaching an acoustic sound, you use the piezos by themselves. Run them through a 'clean' sound system or amp rather than a 'guitar' amp that typically adds unwanted distortion and color. An extra gadget like the Fishman box mentioned just enhances the acoustic realism a bit.

If, like some of us, you want to sometimes blend a bit of the piezo sound with the mags, you can do that using any normal amp.

In either case you use an ordinary guitar cable.

The only time you need a stereo cable and two different signal chains running simultaneously is if you require special sound setups and/or live switching between the sounds.
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Re: New Parker Owner

Offline Notes_Norton

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2018, 03:33:00 PM »
In my duo, I play sax, wind synth, guitar, flute, and sing plus I make my own backing tracks, so there never is a time where I really need straight acoustic. Since I use an fx/amp-sim pedal with a couple of acoustic simulations, that works fine for me. If I didn't, I'd try that Y cable and go direct into the PA, perhaps put some reverb on it.

But I really love blending the piezos with the mags. Although we are not a country band, we had enough requests to learn "Wagon Wheel" so I play fill ins and both solos using the neck pickup in the P-90 mode and crank the piezo knob up about 3/4 and although it sounds neither like a straight mag or acousitc, having elements of both, it really tickles my ears. I sequenced the fiddles for the intro, but they don't get one of the solos, I'm not going to let the machine have that kind of fun ;)

Other songs I'll use the bridge mag on single coil, turn the treble down on the mag a bit, and turn the piezo up about half way, it doesn't sound like a tele, but will fill the same space as one.

It's a fun tool to experiment with.

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Re: New Parker Owner

Offline axejock

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2018, 11:00:35 PM »
Let me see if I understand the workings of my DF 724. When we talk about using a Y cable to "separate" the Piezos and the magnetic pups, does this mean that my guitar is equipped with a "stereo output jack" that will carry the mag pups sound in one half of the Y cable, and the piezo signals completely separately in the other half of the Y cable? That would mean that output jack must have two sets of contacts, one for the piezos and one for the mags. Then, if I use a single output cable (no Y), the out put jack will send both the piezo and mag signals out through the common cable? That capability would be cool and the first time I've ever encountered this. You guys are a big help, so can you help clean this up in my "simple mind"? Thanks.

Re: New Parker Owner

Offline Big Swifty

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2018, 11:48:18 PM »
Yes, the output can be either stereo - one side mag other side piezo ( don't recall which side is which) or mono with mag/piezo combined.
The fishman pre-amp "auto-senses" the type of plug used (stereo or mono) and sends the appropriate signal.
However apparently this auto sensing feature can be a little flaky at times and is somewhat dependant on what you're plugging your guitar into in order to work correctly.
Never tried it on my DF, but there is info here if you have a search.
Get or make a Y cable and give it a go!

B.S.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 11:51:28 PM by Big Swifty »
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Re: New Parker Owner

Offline axejock

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2018, 06:41:41 PM »
Boy, this Piezo/Mag stuff is interesting. I just found that Sweetwater sells a "Parker 20 Mag/Piezo Y Cable" that sounds like just what is supposed to be used with my DF 724 guitar......it costs $60!! Was one of these cables supposed to come with the guitar when it was brand new? (The manuals suggest that it should have). I checked the actual output jack on the guitar, and it does indeed have a "stereo output jack" (two contact points) and this Y cable is built to work directly with that jack so as to put the piezo signal through one cable and the mag signal through another. But the manuals suggest that the separate cables are not necessary if you don't need ultimate control of both pickup sets and don't have an acoustic or PA amp. Is buying the Y cable worth the cost and will running the piezo and mag signals through different amps provide significantly more sound control and versatility?
Gosh, when I first started with electric guitars back in the early 60's, there was only a volume and tone control on the guitar, and another volume and tone contol on the amp....that sort of technology has advanced a long way!!

Re: New Parker Owner

Offline JamieCrain

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2018, 07:16:59 PM »
Boy, this Piezo/Mag stuff is interesting. I just found that Sweetwater sells a "Parker 20 Mag/Piezo Y Cable" that sounds like just what is supposed to be used with my DF 724 guitar......it costs $60!! Was one of these cables supposed to come with the guitar when it was brand new?

Yes. But they are fairly cheaply made. I have three and they have all failed at some point. You can get them made up for you or if you are handy with a soldering iron you can make your own easily enough for less than $60.

Is buying the Y cable worth the cost and will running the piezo and mag signals through different amps provide significantly more sound control and versatility?

Yes absolutely. You don't need it, but IMO it greatly improves the sound variations you can get from the guitar. And as I suggested above, using a Y cable with a modeller (rather than 2 amps) means you can use foot switches to change inputs/patches rather than your hands. It sounds complicated, but it really isn't. For example, you just set Patch 1 (mags) to use the main guitar input, and set Patch 2 (piezo) to use the FX return only. Or, as some have suggested, a blend of the two inputs to get a nice acoustic sound with a little "colour" from the mags.
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Re: New Parker Owner

Online sybersitizen

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2018, 12:45:33 AM »
Is buying the Y cable worth the cost and will running the piezo and mag signals through different amps provide significantly more sound control and versatility?

I thought I already explained that earlier, but we'll try again. The answer to the second part of your question is yes: running the separate outputs through two different signal chains simultaneously offers more sound control and versatility. However, there's nothing mandatory about it.

Using just a normal guitar cable, you can choose output from mags alone to run through a 'guitar' chain, or piezo alone to run through a different 'acoustic' chain, or a mag/piezo blend to run through something else. Maybe your own standard signal chain includes the ability to switch from a 'guitar' amplification patch to a completely different 'piezo' amplification patch that you would control with your foot while you change pickup outputs with your hand. There are too many possibilities to enumerate. 

The answer to the first part of the question (is buying the stereo cable worth the cost?) is something you answer for yourself depending on what gear you have and what you want to do.
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Re: New Parker Owner

Offline axejock

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2018, 05:34:00 PM »
Well, I tried using the "acoustic amp model" on my Boss amp, and played just the piezos through it by themselves. There was very little "true" acoustic sounds produced....it sounded ok, but less than expected. I then went to a "clean" model on the amp with all effects shut off, and played the mags through that. Sounded great! So then I also turned on the piezos with the mags, and I was really surprised at how much "brightness" and clarity was added to the sound. Is this what you've been saying you do, Notes? I can see why....the piezos really seem more useful in augmenting the mags sound than using them alone. (at least in my limited ability to manage and appreciate the tones of a guitar)! You guys have a lot of knowledge on these guitars, and I appreciate the sharing.

Re: New Parker Owner

Online sybersitizen

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2018, 06:39:44 PM »
Well, I tried using the "acoustic amp model" on my Boss amp, and played just the piezos through it by themselves. There was very little "true" acoustic sounds produced....it sounded ok, but less than expected.

Depending on what Boss amp you're talking about, that's probably an inappropriate thing to do. With my Boss amps, the 'Acoustic' model is described along these lines:

ACOUSTIC
By combining acoustic guitar simulation with COSM amplifier modeling technology, this original amplifier model gives you a dynamic acoustic guitar sound using a standard electric guitar.


It takes magnetic output and supposedly (though unsuccessfully) makes it sound like an acoustic guitar. That's quite the wrong approach for amplifying piezo output. What you want is basically clean and uncolored amplification, although you can augment the sound from there.
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Re: New Parker Owner

Offline axejock

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2018, 08:20:00 PM »
It's a Boss Katana 100 212 amp....quite a monster. But you are right that its acoustic model is not really that good. So, I have just had a friend tell me that he is selling his one of his Fishman acoustic amps (very nice amp) so I bought it just to see what I could extract from my Parker's piezos. That may be a bit of overkill just to test sound capabilities of a guitar, but I do have a Martin Acoustic Electric guitar that can use the amp as well, so it is not a frivolous decision. I get the amp tomorrow and will run the sound capability tests again. I assume that the acoustic amp is the proper amp for this purpose as it is also a PA amp and has a lot of capability.

Re: New Parker Owner

Offline JamieCrain

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2018, 08:45:34 PM »
As Syber says, you want an uncoloured amp for your piezo to get the best acoustic sound. In practice this means a PA system, Full Range Flat Response speakers, or keyboard amp. If your Martin Acoustic amp is FRFR, then it will be fine. If it is an acoustic emulator, it won't sound right.

My last tip for the piezo is to make sure the pre-amp gain on the guitar's power-chip is turned up so the piezo is about 120% of the mag volume. IMO this helps the acoustic sound punch through more and if it's too loud you can always roll off the piezo volume without degrading the sound, which obviously you can't do successfully with magnetic pups.
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Re: New Parker Owner

Online sybersitizen

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2018, 12:37:35 AM »
... I have just had a friend tell me that he is selling his one of his Fishman acoustic amps (very nice amp) so I bought it just to see what I could extract from my Parker's piezos.

I know about those. Should sound great with the piezos.
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Re: New Parker Owner

Offline jb63

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Re: New Parker Owner
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2018, 02:02:42 PM »

My last tip for the piezo is to make sure the pre-amp gain on the guitar's power-chip is turned up so the piezo is about 120% of the mag volume. IMO this helps the acoustic sound punch through more and if it's too loud you can always roll off the piezo volume without degrading the sound, which obviously you can't do successfully with magnetic pups.

THIS!
Definitely THIS!