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Author Topic: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue  (Read 371 times)

Offline gjport

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Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« on: February 05, 2019, 12:49:46 AM »
I have a question regarding the Nitefly mojo bridge mounting that might be partly answered in this pdf generated by Billy:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7zMxEP10BlwYVA2WHVUcHA1Wlk/view

But I'm so not a tech guy!  When the bridge is removed, there are two posts? or bushings? that remain in the body, the part that the other half of the 'grub' screw screws into.  I'm talking about the part shown in the pdf figure under "Unofficial Fix 2" on the upper left.  But while the post on the 6th string side is retained in the body, the post on the 1st string side just slips out the back.  I can't figure out what is holding the other one in?  Did something fall out that I didn't see?  Because I can't tighten that 1st string side back in, it just kind of 'floats' unless I completely tighten the bridge to the body, obviously can't do that.  Not sure why it worked before I took it apart!  Am I just supposed to stuff something in there to tighten it? That doesn't seem how the 6th string side post is, it can rotate and jiggle in there, just doesn't come out the back.  Hopefully someone can help this idiot? :(  Thanks for any advice!

Gary

Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline Musikron

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2019, 02:50:30 AM »
There should be a c-clip holding it in.

Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline gjport

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 10:57:12 PM »
Do you know where it is (at the top near the front of guitar), what it looks like, if I can order it somewhere?  I wonder if mine fell out and is lying behind something here, drat. Wonder if I can fabricate something, but would need to have an idea what it looks like.  Maybe I could see one if I push the other post out, can I damage anything by doing that?  Sorry so many questions!

Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline billy

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2019, 10:05:08 PM »
I don’t have a nitefly but I think either you’re turning in the wrong direction or you might have the posts swapped. There’s a tall one for treble side and a shorter one for bass side to account for differences in body thickness.

There’s a double ended hex grub screw that threads into the bushing at one end, and the other threads into  the bottom of the post (upper left)

 If you have the screw adjusted so that it’s close to the back of the guitar, and the short post on the treble side (not bass), in some instances it probably won’t engage to the post sufficiently.

The grub screw looks a lot like this:
https://goo.gl/images/6CYXiE  I’m not certain of the size and pitch but I don’t think yours is lost.

The fly post screw is retained by two internal c clips on either side of the screw head that fit grooves in the bushing. So four clips all together.

Good luck, post pics if you get stuck.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline gjport

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2019, 01:43:06 AM »
Billy thanks for the explanation, still doesn't make sense to me, I'll get some pics tomorrow.  I have both grub screws.  I think it is what you are calling a 'bushing' that is just slipping out the back, but then you said the 'post screw' is held by clips.  Again I'll post pics tomorrow, thanks.

Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline gjport

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2019, 02:55:39 AM »



Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline gjport

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2019, 03:02:18 AM »
Sorry if I wasn't clear.  I think the bridge itself and the posts that are attached to it are fine.

As pointed to in the pictures from both front and back, there two bushings, on either side.  The one on the 6th string side is fixed in the guitar body.  The one on the 1st string side came out, and is shown sitting outside it in the 2nd pic.  So I can't figure out what is holding the 6th string side bushing inside, if anything.  That would explain why the 1st string side bushing does not stay in.  I didn't see any parts fall out when I removed the bridge, I still have the grub screws, they are in the bushings right now as seen in the pic at least for the bushing still in the body, 1st pic.

So I am just trying to figure out how to get that 1st string side bushing fixed into the body.  Doesn't make any sense to me since there was no problem until I removed the bridge.  Is that where some kind of clip might have fallen out?  Hard to believe I wouldn't have seen that or found it since, I see no extra parts around.

Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline billy

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2019, 12:27:49 PM »
ok, the pictures help immensely.  To be clear, the nitefly parts look like what you have.  The fly (not nitefly) has a different style of bushings and screws held in with c-clips.

  • The bushing is the part that fits into the wood.
  • The post is the part that fits into the bushing and mates to the roller bearings on the trem.
  • The grub screw holds the bushing and posts together.


In your case, it looks like the bushing is not anchored in the wood.  It's only held in by friction, ie the hole in the body is slightly smaller than the OD of the bushing.  If you're in a cold part of the world with dry air, it might contribute to the looseness.

The back cover will help retain it but IMHO that's not really what you want since it can still probably slide up and down a bit. (And maybe that's how it's always been on this guitar, but you never noticed - I don't see any chipped or worn wood in the hole.)

If you have some Teflon thread sealing tape (like you'd use in plumbing), I'd probably try putting a few wraps around the outside of the bushing and see if that keeps it from slipping out.  Try not to get it all bunched up if you can.  I don't think you'll need much so don't go nuts.

If the teflon tape doesn't work, then there's another way but I'll hold off for now since its harder to undo if it goes wrong.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline gjport

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2019, 05:55:00 PM »
Thanks for the info.  Yes this is a Nitefly Mojo (title of the thread).  Might take me a couple of days to implement tape like you said.  I'm assuming that the bushing does not need to be able to rotate?  Sounds like you're basically saying I need to tightly wedge it in.  Because the other one, while 'locked' in the body, is movable and can rotate in there.

Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline billy

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2019, 11:50:45 AM »
Wedge it in is pretty accurate.  Not too much though, the wood swells and contracts with heat/humidity changes.  The bushing doesn't need to rotate.  I'd probably put a little of that tape on both bushings.
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline gjport

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2019, 07:22:14 AM »
I pushed out the 'fixed' bushing without too much trouble, got tape inside the hole for each, tapped each bushing in, and they seemed tight.  Started putting on strings and springs, and before complete, noticed a bushing starting to slip out the back again. WTF  >:(

This seems like a ridiculously insufficient design, those bushings are basically load bearing, any time you use the whammy, any time your hand presses on the bridge, can push the bushings out the back.  I don't get it.  I'd think those bushings should screw into the body or something, so that they are guaranteed to stay.  And no way that plastic cover on the back holds them in if they're not already secure.  Thought maybe string and spring tension would help hold it but apparently not.

Not sure billy what your more invasive option would be, these need to be permanently fixed in there, would need some kind of assurance of a good surface contact and use super glue, my only guess as to a fix.

If I can't get this figured out soon, I'll probably end up parting this out, on ebay or reverb.  Hope you or anyone can help save me!

Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline billy

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2019, 04:17:41 PM »
I pushed out the 'fixed' bushing without too much trouble, got tape inside the hole for each, tapped each bushing in, and they seemed tight.  Started putting on strings and springs, and before complete, noticed a bushing starting to slip out the back again. WTF  >:(

Just checking- you have to wrap the thread sealing tape around the outside of the bushing.  It sounds like you just pushed a bunch of tape in the body's holes?  The idea is to wrap the bushings with the tape and increase their outer diameter.  Thread sealing tape will do this but also "give" in the right places if it has to.  You may have to experiment a bit to figure out how much you need, and you might need different amounts on either bushing.

This seems like a ridiculously insufficient design, those bushings are basically load bearing, any time you use the whammy, any time your hand presses on the bridge, can push the bushings out the back.  I don't get it.  I'd think those bushings should screw into the body or something, so that they are guaranteed to stay.  And no way that plastic cover on the back holds them in if they're not already secure.  Thought maybe string and spring tension would help hold it but apparently not.

OK, You haven't told us if the guitar was working ok earlier, what the issue was that made you take it apart, etc. 

BTW I didn't say that the plastic cover is intended to hold them in, quite the opposite and only that it may have held the bushings in well enough to not notice the issue before.

Your issue is that the holes in the body are slightly oversized.   

Some of this might be worsened by any change in temp/humidty.  The spring/string tension should help some, but it sounds like the bushings are really much looser than they should be.  Without knowing more about the guitar and its history, we can only speculate why the bushings are so much looser than they are intended to be.

Not sure billy what your more invasive option would be, these need to be permanently fixed in there, would need some kind of assurance of a good surface contact and use super glue, my only guess as to a fix.

If I can't get this figured out soon, I'll probably end up parting this out, on ebay or reverb.  Hope you or anyone can help save me!

Superglue is probably not a great option here- it shears very easily. 

I haven't seen your guitar and don't know how experienced you are so the following is at your own risk tolerance/patience thresh hold. 

The best way to fix this would be to drill out the holes slightly larger with a forstner bit and completely fill the holes with a glued in dowel that fits snug in the holes.  Then redrill the holes to fit the bushings snugly.

Its fairly easy if you've done it before and have the equipment, but not really a great idea if you're not already comfortable with the idea.

But, based on what you've posted, your best bet (besides trying more tape) is a 2 part epoxy (something like this https://www.amazon.com/Bob-Smith-Industries-Mid-Cure-Combined/dp/B0166FFFJ8?ref_=bl_dp_s_web_11859891011). 

You'll have to scuff up the inside of the holes in the body with some 120 grit sandpaper.  Keep the glue from the inside of the bushing and threads, but make sure it gets in the outside grooves and the inside of the hole in the body. 

Then you'll need a way to hold/clamp the bushings in place while the glue cures, preferably 24 hours or so.  Check to be sure the glue doesn't run onto the face of the guitar before you leave it to cure.

I know it can be frustrating when things don't work right away, but you can also learn a lot at the same time.  Take your time and stop if you get frustrated.  You can always come back to it.  It's probably worth the effort to get this guitar working.  If you get in a bind, PM me and I'll try to help out as best I can.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 04:20:47 PM by billy »
Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]

Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline gjport

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2019, 09:10:42 PM »
Thanks for the reply again.  Yeah that idea with the dowels, no way, it would have to be perfect or I could just end up with the same problem, and I don't have the right tools.  Wish I knew a good guitar tech, a guy at what I think is one of my best local guitar stores seems to know barely more than I do.

Thanks for the suggestion and link for the epoxy, and the explanation why super glue is not the best, that gives me more confidence.  I put the tape in the hole, it was secured around the edge pretty well (decreasing the inner diameter), seemed like if I put it on the bushing I would have had trouble even starting it into the hole.  The bushings seemed to fit tight, but I guess not tight enough!  I'll mull this over and consider whether I try the epoxy or start over with the tape.

This guitar played fine for years, I was just taking the bridge off because I wanted to clean up the guitar real good, it has years of corrosion and dirt in there.  I'm sure that the bushings never slipped out any before this, I would have easily noticed the difference in the string action (i.e. from about 1/8 inch to 0 would be hard to miss, lol).

Anyways this next step might take me a while to resolve and get back here, but billy I wanted to make sure you know I really appreciate the effort and help you have provided.  Cheers! - Gary

Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue

Offline GailThompson

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Re: Nitefly Mojo bridge issue
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2019, 03:52:47 AM »
Thanks for sharing information. this was quite helpful