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Author Topic: Intelligent Design? Evolution?  (Read 55558 times)

Offline bostjan

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #150 on: November 13, 2007, 12:20:03 PM »
Ibanez makes amps.  They aren't terrible, either, but not spectacular.

Anyway, is the new Gibson Robot Les Paul intelligent design or evolution?  I opine that it is neither, because I've seen Jimmy Page playing on a Les Paul with the same system on the bridge instead of the headstock for decades now.
 

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline David Bahar

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« Reply #151 on: April 17, 2008, 06:20:30 PM »
Everyone  here will know the Guitar Came to the west via  the Indian Sitar. Over the many 100s of years the shape, like the name has change. Whats to say in 500 1000 years the guitar may change as it has in the past[?]
david bahar

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Offline David Bahar

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« Reply #152 on: April 20, 2008, 12:21:51 PM »
And the real answer for me is in the  Olive Branch
david bahar

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Offline CesarLebel

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« Reply #153 on: April 26, 2008, 01:43:59 PM »
Interested in Juan Alvarez Flamenco Guitar From Dwayne . Sorry for posting on this thread but im new and cant seem to e-mail dwayne .
If someone can get in touch with him Im interested in his Flamenco Guitar
Thanks
Cesar
cesarlebel@gmail.com
CesarLebel

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline Solidfuel

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« Reply #154 on: July 05, 2008, 01:20:57 PM »
Well, I've read through most of this post, and I guess I have something to add. Being an old nerd who's hobby has been the study of the acoustics of loudspeaker speaker and musical instrument construction, I have collected quite a bunch of books on the subject from the 20th century. One of my favorites is a series of little books put together by the Walt Disney Studios during WW II for prepping trainees for radar and radio theory and repair. The first text covers basic audio design. Basic Pythagorean quarter wave harmonics is discussed (aka music theory) and a discussion of organ pipe and violin design. Cutting to the chase: a Spanish guitar is two bouts joined to the atmosphere at a common opening. One bout is 1/4 the length (longest point from the sound hole) of the wave length of the lowest frequency the guitar can reproduce, and the other is 1/3. When this proportion is met there resonant reinforcement shared between the two bouts. Conveniently, the Spanish guitar shape is ergonomically perfect like a bicycle seat, so the the Spanish guitar is truly a wonderful design. From my own experience building guitars, and making acoustic experiments with guitar and violin shapes (and making successful modifications), this two bout proportion also applies in some degree to the solid wood guitar constructions as well. Granted, the resonance of the wood use to construct an electric guitar is far more important than it would be in creating the efficiency of an acoustic instrument. Yes, there are many other variables, but it is my experience that a Tele sounds like a Tele no matter what the neck and body are made from. It is my opinion that Parker guitars represent a giant evolution in guitar construction, but are probably a step backwards in the natural evolution of the traditional Spanish guitar proportions, both ergonomically and acoustically. Form and function are at cross purposes. Having studied art led me to Parker guitars in the first place, and Mr. Parker is a master of design of the First Water in my book. I think he has produced some wonderful designs, but I think the efforts to conserve weight have led to compromises in the sound of some of his instruments. Maybe some day we'll meet and we could discuss some acoustic improvements that I have discovered that work well with guitars. But I doubt that as these improvements definitely don't add to the inherent beauty of the Spanish guitar, and Mr. Parker seems to be in it 'for the beauty'. He also shows a love for improvements in construction and materials of the guitar. There is nothing wrong with that. I like my Parker for what it is, thank you very much. Even if were to sound like a Tiffany turd (and it doesn't!), Parker's are the best crafted Tiffany turds out there! Who knows? Maybe Parkers will be known someday for being the best sounding guitars as well as those with the best action and fit.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 01:30:50 PM by Solidfuel »
 

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline PRC

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« Reply #155 on: July 08, 2008, 05:28:30 AM »
I think guitars should evolve with years. Why not? Everything does.[8]
 

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Offline jefsummers

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« Reply #156 on: July 10, 2008, 08:24:00 PM »
Ummm, so which is it? Did you find Parker because of studying art like the post above, or by getting one from a friend who was an Alaskan fisherman like in one of your other posts?

1998 Parker Fly Deluxe
1998 Fender Std Strat
2002 Epiphone Dot
1999 Danelectro Hodad 12 string electric
1963 Gibson Melody Maker
Various acoustics
Marshall AVT150 with 1960A Lead Cab
Vox AD30
Boss GT-8, Roland GR-30
Parker DF 724
Parker Fly Deluxe
Nitefly V2
Italia Mondial
Fender Std Strat w SCN pickups and GK2A
Epiphone Dot w SD Jazz/JB
Danelectro Hodad 12 string electric
Epiphone Gary Clark Casino
Fender Jaguar Players Custom HH
1963 Gibson Melody Maker
Various acoustics
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Offline David Bahar

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« Reply #157 on: July 31, 2008, 08:09:07 PM »
just to add the spanish guitar came across the water with the barbers thats why most of the music played on it is in those types of keys and modes,

david bahar

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Offline joethelion

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« Reply #158 on: September 02, 2008, 01:08:55 PM »
Hi Parker Fans,

I'm new around here, having recently bought my first, a P36. I've much enjoyed a brief trawl ... some fascinating contributions from very interesting, capable members. This thread struck me as being more worthwhile than some suggest.

On the 'evolution thingy' ... our language is so complex and sophisticated; concerning both science and art in its construction and use. It continually adapts with changing environment and culture ... thus creating new purposeful codes of language and useage ¡K with successive generations. Language is a messaging device, as are musical instruments. Both are founded in science and art.

The study of evolution is a mature science. Precision is the vital purpose of science. Laws derive, with predictive power. That is the prime value of science. Art is not necessarily rational and has somewhat less predictive power. Undoubtedly, some arts (and artists) are highly predictable. That may, or not, enhance effectiveness and value. In my relative ignorance, Parkers defy no scientific laws; and merely challenge custom and practise, in hitherto, quite unique, stimulating, artful ways. That speaks loudly, in an increasingly un-listening world.

Of itself, evolution concerns attaining enduring fitness for purpose, in ever-changing scenarios. In my view, the prime purpose of the seminal Parker design was to innovate so distinctively, as to establish and endure, with adequate certainty of assured growth on-going. Little point, commercially, otherwise. Initially, innovation was the prime issue. Now maturing, successive evolution becomes paramount to the brand; and it¡¦s getting harder to do so in such obviously seminal ways. Rational design was, and remains, a pivotal success factor.  

My first-prized guitar is a Guild Songbird. Had I sought to shock the seller, at that time, I would have fitted a distinctive passive (on a stiff sound-hole blank), to blend with the Fishman, and also provide a ¡¥pseudo-stereo¡¦ out. No great innovation, really. I would then have dreamt of re-designing the body and neck, and of fashioning a novel guitar, with high quality materials, advanced components and materials, manufactured to the closest tolerances permissible at specific price-points.

The body would have demonstrated distinctive art, governed by a precise ergonomic framework of key dimensions. The neck would have derived from widely popular forms. The headstock would have uniquely complemented the body. I would likely have retained a tuned hollow body, however. My overall philosophy would have been in achieving enduring fitness for purpose. I would have sought ownership amongst the avant-garde; and next generation.

I don¡¦t know precisely what my own purpose would have been, though. If only ¡K ƒº

Ken knew, as did Rickenbacker. Rickenbacker changed music per se, for the better. That¡¦s my wish for Parker.

Cheers all.


P36, Natural.
Guild Songbird, Natural.
Gibson LPS SL, Black.
Fender Lead III, Black.
"Jim Harley" 330/12, FG.
P36, Natural.
Guild Songbird, Natural.
Gibson LPS SL, Black.
Fender Lead III, Black.
"Jim Harley" 330/12, FG.

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline Monsieur Obscure

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #159 on: February 16, 2009, 08:06:49 PM »
I'd say it's a combination of the two. It is based on earlier, ore-existing forms, but has been developed and advanced through intelligent design by the likes of Ned Steinberger and Ken Parker.

Cheers.

~ Christopher


"...cultivate eloquent silence..."
- St Gregory of Sinai


Cheers.

~ Christopher


"...cultivate eloquent silence..."
- St Gregory of Sinai



Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline Monsieur Obscure

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« Reply #160 on: February 16, 2009, 08:15:23 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by jefsummers

Ummm, so which is it? Did you find Parker because of studying art like the post above, or by getting one from a friend who was an Alaskan fisherman like in one of your other posts?

Maybe at the precise moment that he made the discovery while studying art, an Alaskan fisherman walked through the door and handed him a Fly...

Cheers.

~ Christopher


"...cultivate eloquent silence..."
- St Gregory of Sinai


Cheers.

~ Christopher


"...cultivate eloquent silence..."
- St Gregory of Sinai



Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline 4mula97

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« Reply #161 on: April 29, 2009, 12:15:48 AM »
i would say it was neither intelligent design nor evolution.  Ken saw the need for a product that was a verstile, light weight, well playing, long lasting, and good looking guitar.  he researched all of the needs to make this product, probably made some mistakes, and eventually offered th Fly.

i believe it is the worlds best guitar (even though it isnt the favorite one that i own) on the market now.  for instance this guitar could also be described as having a monocoque body.  the monocoque design has been used for years in high-end super cars (ferrari, lamborghini, and so on)  and on race cars (indy, cart series and others)  airplanes (almost all aircraft that go 500knots or faster).  so in that respect he took an idea (that has already been tested) that would add strength, rigidity, and durability and applied it as necessary to his guitar.  

it then seems like he spared no expence in finding the best electronics that sound good in almost any combination of effects, amp, musical styles, etc...  he then trimmed the fat (so to speak) and produced a guitar that is actually worth the price tag in the sense that you get what you pay for (what i mean by that is that there are no extras, and everything on the Fly has a purpose) which in this case is the best guitar on the market.  if you spend the same amount of money on gibson, fender, PRS, or gretsch you get to say that you own a gibson, fender, PRS, or gretsch but none of thos manufacturers even come close to the many uses of a Fly.

maybe if you could think of the production of the Fly in the same sense that Delorean did when producing his car.  you could see where i was comming from.  it was designed to have everytthing you need in a car that would last forever (although most would say that Delorean failed in this, but i have never seen an old beat up rusty Delorean sitting around).

maybe intelligent design, but i have a hard time believing that Ken drew a picture of the Fly at dinner one night, and then built it the next day.  i might be wrong though.  i think there was a lot of trial and error.  maybe some one here who has know Parker personally during his design process can help me understand.

i think the design of this guitar falls more into "common sense" than anything else.

the evolution of the guitar would be the ability to follow and produce the everchanging desires of what kind of music we like to hear.  kind of like the use of active pick ups, and the sustainiac, variax systems, things like that.

these are just my opinions, dont be offended if you disagree, but i would like to hear your thoughts.

99Fly Classic
BC Rich Mockingbird
Some cheap strat copy that sounds great!!
 

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline Waggerman

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« Reply #162 on: March 28, 2010, 02:12:42 PM »
Hi all. I'm new here and, as so many of us newbies seem to do, my first stop off is this excellent thread.

I figure all members of this forum love the design Ken Parker came up with. The weight, the resonance of the guitar (we've all done it I guess - picked up a Fly, strummed a chord and felt the whole instrument sing), the look, the tonal palette...

I guess my set up question is - and this is meant honestly and openly - why aren't there more major names playing them?

For some I guess they're held into artist endorsement deals. Others might be tied into a whole image (Slash with a banjo, anybody?). Others may love lunking 9 lb monsters around - and adrenalin on stage is a funny thing, perhaps artists LIKE having something that fights back.

I'm sure that all the above applies, but I think there's something else going on. Dare I ask? Is the Fly OVER-engineered?

I don't mean are the production tolerances set too high, or is the action and intonation too accurate. Rather I'm interested in the materials used - and the fretboard in particular.

Guitarists can be a pretty reactionary bunch. I figure any activity that is so reliant on extremely precise muscle memory is going to discourage things that simply FEEL odd.

Perhaps the next step forward might be a step back. Now that Parker is part of USM, surely a rosewood or ebony fingerboard, with frets that a tech can happily stare at and think "Yeah, I can change those" might help take the towards musicians who just like the darn FEEL of the kind of fretboard they've played on every day since they were so high.

And I'm not saying ditch the carbon fiber board. But what about a Mojo Traditional, with regular electronics and a familiar feeling board? Or a Mojo Traditional Blues - with all the above and a 24 3/4 scale length?

I'm probably stepping all over past threads that have been done to death, and I apologise if I am.

Anyway. Nice to be on the board.
Waggerman

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Offline sybersitizen

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« Reply #163 on: March 28, 2010, 05:49:39 PM »
Hi there, and welcome. I'll try to keep my comments short since others here are far more experienced and more knowledgeable about such stuff. But IMO the Parker franchise (both while it was still under Ken and in its later Kenless incarnations) has been taking either subtle or not-so-subtle steps 'backwards' ever since the revolutionary Fly was introduced in '93. Many models have been brought on that drop innovations in favor of traditional materials, form and function - but none that take what was originally done further into the unknown and unfamiliar. In other words, Parker products have gradually become more like mainstream guitars as time has passed... which is probably inevitable for the long term survival of the brand.

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard|'69 EB-3|Pignose Strat|Savannah SGO-16CE|Glen Burton GE47|Dean Vendetta 7-String|Loog 3-String|Fishman Aura Spectrum|Roland Amplifiers

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline Patzag

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« Reply #164 on: March 28, 2010, 06:38:03 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Waggerman



I guess my set up question is - and this is meant honestly and openly - why aren't there more major names playing them?

Waggerman



Welcome.
I can answer that to a certain degree.  Just by relating a conversation I had with a major player who endorses Ibanez guitars. He looked at my Fly with open envy and said that the fly is by far his favorite guitar, but that he could
never get the endorsement privileges he gets from Ibanez with Parker. He tried. And believe me, he deserves the best.

So it all boils down to business?  Not really 100%. But enough that a very successful musician would rather play a slightly less suitable guitar than his favorite if enough money/freebies/percs are involved in the deal.  

Is that a correct strategy from USM?  I don't know. My aquaintance has a Fly. He does
not play it in public. His loss, I think Parker's too.

But I also know that each of these guitars costs quote a bit of money to make. Much less the overhead of a company like USM. It's a matter of numbers and promotional strategy.

I would not dream of backseat driving a company like that ( even though I do privately!) [;)]

Patrick
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 06:41:20 PM by Patzag »
Teal Fly Classic 1998 / White Deluxe Hard Tail 1994 /Axe FX II