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Author Topic: Intelligent Design? Evolution?  (Read 52871 times)

Offline rt0412

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« on: June 06, 2006, 05:55:53 PM »
The guitar obviously came into being by man's intelligent design. Whether it will change (evolve?) into something else will still be dictated by man not by nature (or God). Strictly speaking, the guitar will never "evolve" into something else.

Maybe somebody has to define the parameters for defining "Evolution" and "Intelligent Design" that we can all agree upon.
 

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline Goose_Bend

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2006, 08:42:24 PM »
Not really sure what your talking about, but the guitar is a design that has evolved through more intelligent design to get better and it will continure to get better through intelligent design.
 

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline Lwinn171

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2006, 11:25:15 PM »
This argument boils down to semantics, and furthermore is convoluded by people's beliefs (whether scientific or religious). The Parker Fly, for instance, marks several leaps forward in the evolution of the guitar. A lot of science went into the design process. Yet, can I say there was no divine intervention? Well, it's very hard to prove a negative. Who knows what muse was whispering in Ken's ear?
 The "eureka" moment, when you discover a clever soution to a problem, usually happens for me during a moment of distraction. I've heard this refered to as "lateral thinking", though I'm not sure that really describes what I mean.
 The entire concept of "intelligent design" is an interesting way to dodge the two-horned argument, science vs. religion, basically offering a religious answer to the scientific evidence concerning evolution. God works through evolution; it's one of the tools in his chest (as are humans, presumably).
 Evolution seems to imply that guitars change on their own, without human intervention, and that's clearly impossible. Evolution can only happen to things that breed (and as we've discussed in a thread on this very topic, Parker Fly's don't breed, no matter how drunk you get 'em).
 So what is this debate about? Intelligent design by someone other than god? Are you (John Page) trying to imply Ken parker is a god? Evolving the guitar by his own hand? Why are we using these terms to discuss a technological issue? Marketing mistique?

Lawrence Winn
"42.7 percent of all statistics are made-up on the spot."
2001 Fly Classic, Green
Larivee Parlour Guitar
Several inferior others
Mesa Boogie MK IV
Marshall 2-12 cab
Fender acoustasonic 30
« Last Edit: June 09, 2006, 01:08:09 PM by Lwinn171 »

Lawrence Winn
2001 Classic, 98 Deluxe
various amps, various toys

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline jamrcat

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2006, 11:55:31 PM »
Lawerence, I find your thoughts to be - well thoughtful and well thought out! [:0]

I think we have beaten this subject around alot over the last few weeks, now when does it end? There are no definitive answers and expecting us all to agree on the subject is unrealistic in my opinion. Agreeing to disagree is probably the most we could all hope for! [;)]


"I did it again today I guess I'm in a rut, I missed an opportunity to keep my big mouth shut!"
« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 11:56:28 PM by jamrcat »
"A Fly for each hand!"

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline rt0412

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2006, 12:32:13 AM »
Ah! Finally somebody who understand...

quote:
Originally posted by Lwinn171

This argument boils down to semantics, and furthermore is convoluded by people's beliefs (whether scientific or religious). The Parker Fly, for instance, marks several leaps forward in the evolution of the guitar. A lot of science went into the design process. Yet, can I say there was no divine intervention? Well, it's very hard to prove a negative. Who knows what muse was whispering in Ken's ear?
 The "eureka" moment, when you discover a clever soution to a problem, usually happens for me during a moment of distraction. I've heard this refered to as "lateral thinking", though I'm not sure that really describes what I mean.
 The entire concept of "intelligent design" is an interesting way to dodge the two-horned argument, science vs. religion, basically offering a religious answer to the scientific evidence concerning evolution. God works through evolution; it's one of the tools in his chest (as are humans, presumably).
 Evolution seems to imply that guitars change on their own, without human intervention, and that's claerly impossible. Evolution can only happen to things that breed (and as we've discussed in a thread on this very topic, Parker Fly's don't breed, no matter how drunk you get 'em).
 So what is this debate about? Intelligent design by someone other than god? Are you (John Page) trying to imply Ken parker is a god? Evolving the guitar by his own hand? Why are we using these terms to discuss a technological issue? Marketing mistique?

Lawrence Winn
"42.7 percent of all statistics are made-up on the spot."
2001 Fly Classic, Green
Larivee Parlour Guitar
Several inferior others
Mesa Boogie MK IV
Marshall 2-12 cab
Fender acoustasonic 30

 

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline 123crest

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2006, 10:11:04 AM »
I beleive that the guitar will continue to evolve.  Doesn't progress equal evolution? Don't you think that we (man) evolve over time?  And if we evolve then do you think that anything that comes from us, anything that we create evolves?  So just the simple passing of time causes man, intrument and music to change in a forward moving way--which equals evolution.
 

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline daynwarren

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2006, 10:33:31 AM »
I agree...marketing mistake.

I really hope this isn't leading up to some new model that strays even further from Ken Parker's brilliant ideas about what the ultimate guitar experience should be.

I say delete the thread and/or drop the topic.

Back to actually discussing Flys...

-Parker Deluxe Single 2 (lipstick tube pickups, crazy pickup switching options!)
 

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline bno

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2006, 11:04:47 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by jwrooker

I don't see the Parker Fly as evolutionary.  Innovative, yes, but I don't think others will follow design.  It is difficult to manufacutre, the carbon fiber neck is an aquired taste that I never really qcuqired.  A very wise salesperson told me that Parkers are not for everyone and he was right.  I have the highest respect for Ken Parker and what he created but I seriously doubt that, in another 20 years, there will be more guitars like the Fly.
Evolution (n) A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

The evolutionary contributions are probably going to be more subtle than the fretboard and a complicated manufacturing process.  

Ken proved that a guitar doesn't have to weigh a ton to get tone.  The use of tone wood, carbon fiber fabric and epoxy to reinforce a lightweight body design and create a resonant structure is probably the biggest innovation.  In that sense, the Fly is evolutionary as it has made an incremental contribution to the concept of what a solid body electric guitar can be.  

I do think in 20 years lightweight guitars will be fairly common place and spread across a number of manufacturer designs.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Gibson make a 5 pound Les Paul with some combination of tone wood and composite materials.  
« Last Edit: June 07, 2006, 11:11:53 AM by bno »
'94 Fly Deluxe
Listen first, then play.

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline uburoibob

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2006, 11:40:38 AM »
This debate is attempting to induce buzz...

Bob

2000 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail  *  1999 Parker Fly Deluxe w/DiBurro Roland Mod Metallic Red  * 1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue (thanks, Darren!) •  Now on a signature reduction program! Just the Flies, maam. *  www.rtmadvertising.com
1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch -   2000 Fly Standard Classic in Cherry Red - http://bobmartin1111.com

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline Lwinn171

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2006, 12:55:07 PM »
I think my playing had to evolve to the point where I could appreciate the playability of the Fly. Evolved to the point where I needed one... My playing has always been a series of plateau's, separated by moments of inspiration that ramp up to the next level in my skill progression. The Fly is currently inspiring my playing... onward and upward... I'd say the Fly is causing me to evolve, in a manner of speaking.
 I can't say enough about how difficult it is to put my ideas forth, using the terminology inherent to this thread. As happened before, the terms evolution and intelligent design are experiencing evolution and/or intelligent design, themselves, as we add our perspectives to their meanings. Cosmic...
 Asking "Intelligent design or Evolution?" frames the question in an unanswerable form, and by design (intelligent or other-wise) is only going to garner conjecture. That said, I suppose it's an interesting debate, as long as we can all agree that there is no right or wrong (and no right or left, either), just ideas and philosophical fun for those so inclined. Like me, apparently...

Lawrence Winn
"42.7 percent of all statistics are made-up on the spot."
2001 Fly Classic, Green
Larivee Parlour Guitar
Several inferior others
Mesa Boogie MK IV
Marshall 2-12 cab
Fender acoustasonic 30
« Last Edit: June 27, 2006, 04:33:55 PM by Lwinn171 »

Lawrence Winn
2001 Classic, 98 Deluxe
various amps, various toys

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline JPage

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2006, 02:08:25 PM »
What we are doing is introducing a new ad campaign designed to increase brand awareness of the Parker Guitar line.  One of the things we hope to do is generate "buzz" as Bob stated above and, who knows - maybe a little controversy.  
These are concept ads.  There are several of them complete with more to come.  One ad will run for a period of time and then another will take its place.  

John

 

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline Lwinn171

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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2006, 03:31:11 PM »
Just joking, John P. Of course Ken Parker is a mortal, however tallented and insightful he may be. I will be glad to tell others how much I appreciate the thought and design genius that went into the Fly, and I look forward to future discussion in this thread, as well as other topics. I like my Fly so much, I'm glad turn on others to this remarkable guitar. So I was right about it being marketing mistique (not mistake, as someone else said). Well, clearly I'm all for Parker selling as many of them as they can make. If they're still making them 30 years from now, mine will be "vintage" and highly collectable. It's value to me means I'll probably never sell it, no matter what it's value. I'll likely collect more of them...dreaming about a Mojo...

Lawrence Winn
"42.7 percent of all statistics are made-up on the spot."
2001 Fly Classic, Green
Larivee Parlour Guitar
Several inferior others
Mesa Boogie MK IV
Marshall 2-12 cab
Fender acoustasonic 30

Lawrence Winn
2001 Classic, 98 Deluxe
various amps, various toys

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline trap

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2006, 03:58:14 PM »
it's about time parker got an ad campaign going.i've missed the ads in the usual guitar rags.how about getting a major(old school) player endorsee? like prs has santana.lets get clapton,he must be ready for a change.(only kidding). lets think of who might have a bad back and need a fly! surley one of the old farts backs must be screwed up.whaddaya think?
 

Intelligent Design? Evolution?

jwrooker

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Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2006, 04:07:00 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by trap

it's about time parker got an ad campaign going.i've missed the ads in the usual guitar rags.how about getting a major(old school) player endorsee? like prs has santana.lets get clapton,he must be ready for a change.(only kidding). lets think of who might have a bad back and need a fly! surley one of the old farts backs must be screwed up.whaddaya think?



Neil young has had a bad back for years..

John Rooker
Rochester, NY
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Intelligent Design? Evolution?

Offline uburoibob

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    • Bob Martin 11:11
Intelligent Design? Evolution?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2006, 04:08:49 PM »
But Ken Parker IS a god!

Bob


2000 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail  *  1999 Parker Fly Deluxe w/DiBurro Roland Mod Metallic Red  * 1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue (thanks, Darren!) •  Now on a signature reduction program! Just the Flies, maam. *  www.rtmadvertising.com
1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch -   2000 Fly Standard Classic in Cherry Red - http://bobmartin1111.com