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Author Topic: Wood Choices...  (Read 28955 times)

Offline Bill

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Wood Choices...
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2006, 07:17:43 AM »
Good points KW.

Do you remember seeing the pics of the Fly Koa ?

Custom '03 Hardtail Artist ; Fly Deluxe 2000; Gibson ES137; 1974 K.Yari DY85; Waterproof SchecterDisposable; Martin Backpacker/paddle combo;LarriveeParlor; numerous borrowed amps
A few Flys in my soup

Wood Choices...

Offline 21st Century Schizoid Man

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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2006, 07:20:01 AM »
I think you hit the nail when you said they " charge so much for custom work that it is used as a deterrant simply so they don't have to interupt the normal operational flow". That is probably true. As a former manufacturing guy I can tell you that anything that interrupts the manufacturing flow is EXTREMELY expensive and if it keeps happening will be a very definate Career Terminating Move. :^)
 

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Offline 908ssp

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« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2006, 10:00:05 AM »
KW you make many good points. I have to wonder if Parker isn't missing the boat with the wood angle. On other boards there is a near fetish desire for fancy woods. It is beyond rational but that doesn't mean they will pay through the nose for it. Parker has an advantage I think in that the sculpting really shows off the figure in the wood. Also with the carbon/glass back they don't have to use the fancy wood in the neck and the neck/body join is always hidden. I do think they should consider using more mahogany in the neck I think it plays a huge part in the sound of a Mojo. Just adding fancy wood might attract a slue of people who are looking for fancy wood over everything else.

Koa body with a mahogany neck and Duncan pickups would be my first suggestion. [8D]

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Wood Choices...

Offline Lwinn171

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« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2006, 11:48:35 PM »
Kurt, I agree!! Many good points, there. The weight issue is minimal at the most. The cost issue is marginal (as you say, single digits for a guitar sized chunk). I've never understood why companies treat curly and figured woods like gold. The actual cost difference (in relation to the ammount it takes to make a guitar is negligable. I will say that something hard to work (Birdseye maple comes to mind, very hard to carve stuff) may justify extra cost (tool wear and time are factors). But it's rarely justifiable.
I once read that woodworkers prefer cherry to cigarettes (a bold statement), it's so easy to work, and walnut's about the same. If Parker can make basswood and poplar sound good, I don't see why cherry and walnut wouldn't be great choices. As a woodworker, I never touch basswood or poplar, mostly 'cause they aren't attractive woods.
Curly cherry looks like this...[/img]
The dark stripe is brazilian cherry (given to me as scrap from a flooring job), and is the corner of a mirror with carved edges (so you don't have to wonder too hard about what you're looking at.[:D]

You can understand why I want to see a Parker made outta that, right?  

Lawrence Winn
"42.7 percent of all statistics are made-up on the spot."
2001 Fly Classic, Green
Larivee Parlour Guitar
Several inferior others
Mesa Boogie MK IV
Marshall 2-12 cab
« Last Edit: August 19, 2006, 01:13:56 AM by Lwinn171 »

Lawrence Winn
2001 Classic, 98 Deluxe
various amps, various toys

Wood Choices...

Offline bembamboo

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Wood Choices...
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2006, 08:58:43 PM »
Speaking of woods, and global warming (no, I'm not going political), my deluxe and artist are flavored by tubes, fx loops, blue alnicos, neos and greenbacks, but ultimately its the wood in the cabs, that I thirst for.  My Leslies are quality, naked but heavy ply, while light solid dove jointed dry pine, 1/2 inch cabs, with bouncy ply speaker boards seem to give a sound alternative to 3/4 inch ply, tolex, and particle board standards we all know and use.  Emory amps has a very light mahogahy cab I'd love to try.

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Offline ChicagoKid

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« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2006, 11:23:07 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

a splated maple fly...or...Paduak...or my favorite...

BUCKEYE BURL [:p]


mmmm exotic woods




Would you be interested in a PM20 made from Spalted Maple? There's less than 10 left on the planet. Not a Fly, but very "woody". [:)]

www.USCustomShop.com <coming soon>
www.USCustomShop.com <coming soon>

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Offline David Tomkins

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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2006, 02:15:52 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by bembamboo

Speaking of woods, and global warming (no, I'm not going political), my deluxe and artist are flavored by tubes, fx loops, blue alnicos, neos and greenbacks, but ultimately its the wood in the cabs, that I thirst for.  My Leslies are quality, naked but heavy ply, while light solid dove jointed dry pine, 1/2 inch cabs, with bouncy ply speaker boards seem to give a sound alternative to 3/4 inch ply, tolex, and particle board standards we all know and use.  Emory amps has a very light mahogahy cab I'd love to try.


???  surely this is eric johnson territory? (ie so miniscule a difference as to be inaudible to the ear).  I can understand that the physics may back up what you are saying, but can you really hear it?
feel free to correct me without taking offence!!
which way round do you have the polarity on your cables?
2005 Green Quilted Maple Custom Mojo signed by Steve Vai, 2006 Parker Fly T-Shirt, 2006 Parker Fly Baseball Cap.  A triple-whammy of Parker goodness!!

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Offline bno

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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2006, 09:27:32 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by bembamboo

Speaking of woods, and global warming (no, I'm not going political), my deluxe and artist are flavored by tubes, fx loops, blue alnicos, neos and greenbacks, but ultimately its the wood in the cabs, that I thirst for.  My Leslies are quality, naked but heavy ply, while light solid dove jointed dry pine, 1/2 inch cabs, with bouncy ply speaker boards seem to give a sound alternative to 3/4 inch ply, tolex, and particle board standards we all know and use.  Emory amps has a very light mahogahy cab I'd love to try.

www.KWCabs.com
'94 Fly Deluxe
Listen first, then play.

Wood Choices...

Offline Lwinn171

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« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2006, 12:43:36 PM »
I just found an interesting article online about mahogany, which seems to back up some of my earlier assertions, and contradict others (somewhat). So here's a link to a scientific look at mahogany repoduction...

http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/1996/A/199600076.html

Very interesting stuff for those so inclined





Lawrence Winn
"42.7 percent of all statistics are made-up on the spot."
2001 Fly Classic, Green
Larivee Parlour Guitar
Several inferior others
Mesa Boogie MK IV
Marshall 2-12 cab

Lawrence Winn
2001 Classic, 98 Deluxe
various amps, various toys

Wood Choices...

Offline bembamboo

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« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2006, 03:00:03 AM »


David, I think I am serious.  Offense, not offence, at least here in the US.  Anyway, I agree EJ is anal, but the amp makes more difference than the guitar, and the speaker might make more difference than the amp!  ( I may have misspelled differance, I can never tell).  Weight is also a part of my equation, in terms of portability (concerning QCabs).  Buzz Feinten got me started thinking (not personally) about this when he introduced his stereo cabs awhile back, that were lightweight, 1/2 inch, flexible and were reviewed to have  slaughtered GP's test Fender vintage cab with blues or greenbacks.  I noticed my best sounding cab was an old, naked dry pine fender bassman cab cut in half.  Also, tweeds are famous for bouncy baffle boards.  So, since speaker technology is seriously behind the times, I felt Buzz was doing for cabs what KP did for guitars, which was to introduce the first real and meaningful innovations since LPs and Strats/Teles were designed. Buzz just could not patent his cab tricks. Maybe we should start a fresh thread.





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Offline 908ssp

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« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2006, 08:52:43 AM »
I had an opportunity to test a Buzz Feinten at my home against a couple of my cabs and I was not terribly impressed. It was light and small and didn't sound bad but wasn't my flavor. Of course I had spent a couple years buying and selling speakers and cabs until I arrived at what I have now so for it to come and blow my stuff a way wasn't likely. I found it lacked the bass of my cabs and the over all warmth was lacking what I am used to. Nothing earth shattering and no reason for me to pursue it any more.

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Alex

Alex

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Offline kwcabs

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« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2006, 08:01:35 PM »
Hello again all, this topic has been one of my favorites to participate it, and I'm very surprised that I missed so many of these great posts.  I'd like to take a moment to quickly comment on a few of the posts since my last here.  
   First, Cherry, it's an awesome wood and can be found in many different flavors.  Personally, I love when you get cherry that's right on the edge of heartwood and sapwood, you get this light dark contrast that is really beautiful.  Cherry has found it's way into musical instruments, but it has been rather limited.  It can be very pretty, works very nicely, and is not a bad tone wood.  Personally, I would say that it doesn't have it's own unique tone, think of it as a good all around sound like, poplar or basswood or alder.  It's not quite as recognizable in terms of tone as mahogany or maple.  Next, Buckeye Burl! Now that would be a sick looking Parker, man I'd like to see that.  
    While on this topic, to whoever mentioned workability, you are absolutely right, some woods, usually highly figured woods, can be quite challenging to work, and the curves of a Parker could pose some problems.  Make no mistake though, Maple, which they use for a couple of models is no joy to work.  Most woods, that exhibit flame or quilt figure, get that figure because the grain changes direction and likewise the light is refracted differently, causeing the look.  However, when grain direction changes it makes it very hard to machine smoothly.  
    In response to Wilmington, I know weight was a huge concern for Ken, and you are totally correct in saying that it is difficult to find "good" wood.  In terms of size though, of the more popular exotics, some might have been achievable as 1 piece but almost all could have been two pieces.  Most of them would actually look better bookmatched, imagine a chevron zebrawood, that would be really nice.  The reason it surprises me though, is this.  I wouldn't expect these extoics to be used for normal production models.  They already have that, and Ken achieved his goal of lightness with it already.  But another line of "Exotic Flys" would have it's own little niche, as "the" ultimate Parker line.  When I was at the factory, I was introduced to Parker's wonderful CNC machine for the body routing.  With a wood like Poplar, this machine probably works like butter, with a really gnarly grained wood I am sure it is easy to waste wood, and that is probably why so much was scrapped.  It's an incredibly hard body shape to reproduce without the aid of CNC machines, and hence why there could be problems.  Make no mistake though, most of a Parker is crafted by hand with a couple of exceptions such as the body shape roughing.  
    Finally in response to David Tomkins, believe it or not, at least in my opinion, the use of different materials in a speaker cabinet does make a difference.  And Bembamboo brings up an important aspect of wall thickness which can also make a big difference, and I wouldn't put either of these outside the audio receptor capabilites of a middle of the road "ear".  If I put two of my cabinets one made from maple and one from a rosewood loaded with the exact same speakers and equipment chain you would hear a difference.  I'm not saying it's going to be a "wow" difference, but the difference will be easily detected.  For us, that's a great thing, because we can really tailor the tone the user wants.  Drivers of course make an even bigger difference, but if you've found a driver you like you can then tailor around that too.  Finally, Bembam, notices an audible difference with the 1/2 vs 3/4" walls, and also with the pine.  This is quite simple when you think about it, first off, most species of Pine are very light in weight, even lighter that Poplar, and likewise they ressonate more, and the same goes for a thinner piece of any wood.  This can be highly desirable for some who like snappy sound bell like clean, and highly undesirable for the person who likes tight focused low end to play hard rock with.  The point is, they will sound differently, and it gives you many options to find the tone "you" want.  With standard good quality cabinets, they're all made of virtually the same material, void free birch plywood.  It's a good material cause, it comes in large sizes, is relatively cheap, is easy to work with, and the most important reason, because it's very predictable.  When you take two identical Marshall cabinets off the wall (not that they'd be on a wall lol), and close your eyes, guess what, they're both going to sound 99.9999% the same, you won't tell the difference, but grab and old vintage marshall that was made with hardwood from the 60s or something like it and compare and guess what you'll hear a difference, it might not be a difference you like, but there will be one.  
    Threads like this are great in my opinion, because a large number of musicans know nothing or very little about what the equipment they are using is made of and how it works.  I'm not trying to bad mouth anyone, it's just the truth, and it goes with saying that many musicans are of the "artistic" mind and it makes sense that they would not be as involved with the technical side of equipment.  By no means am I saying everyone, cause I'm a perfect example otherwise.  Anyway, sorry to make it such a long post, I could talk forever about this stuff, take care, and anyone who might have a question feel free to email me directly too.  Thanks.


Owner of KWCABS guitar speaker cabinets.  We specialize in making simply the best speaker cabinets out there, constructed out of top-quality hardwoods, standard lines as well as custom work.  WWW.KWCABS.COM

Check out my Parker Supreme here www.kwcabs.com/parker%20page.htm

Kurt Wyberanec
Owner of KWCABS guitar speaker cabinets.  We specialize in making simply the best speaker cabinets out there, constructed out of top-quality hardwoods, standard lines as well as custom work.  WWW.KWCABS.COM

Check out my Parker Supreme here www.kwcabs.com/parker%20page.htm

Wood Choices...

Offline Lwinn171

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« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2006, 11:15:24 PM »
Great post, Kurt... Sure, it took two adult beverages to get through, but I was going to drink them either way. I agree that wood choices mean a lot in tonal terms, and there's no reason to think the speaker cabinet wouldn't benefit greatly from tonally distinct woods. I'm planning to make a cabinet or two, myself, and am thinking about just that.

Anyway, it's been great to have your input on the forum, and particularly on this thread I started. From one wood nerd to another, cheers, and here's to adult beverage #3.

Lawrence Winn
"42.7 percent of all statistics are made-up on the spot."
2001 Fly Classic, Green
Larivee Parlour Guitar
Several inferior others
Mesa Boogie MK IV
Marshall 2-12 cab

Lawrence Winn
2001 Classic, 98 Deluxe
various amps, various toys

Wood Choices...

Offline kwcabs

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« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2006, 12:07:16 AM »
Lol, yeah, sorry about that, I'm sure you understand, I really can talk about this stuff forever, but something tells me that a lot of the people who are actually viewing this thread probably find it interesting enough to take a moment and see what people have to say.  BTW Lawrence, do you use Koa at all in your work?  I ask because I love Koa, and I've been trying hard to find a reasonable quality source.  I think Bob Taylor has bought every felled tree in Hawaii!!!

Owner of KWCABS guitar speaker cabinets.  We specialize in making simply the best speaker cabinets out there, constructed out of top-quality hardwoods, standard lines as well as custom work.  WWW.KWCABS.COM

Check out my Parker Supreme here www.kwcabs.com/parker%20page.htm

Kurt Wyberanec
Owner of KWCABS guitar speaker cabinets.  We specialize in making simply the best speaker cabinets out there, constructed out of top-quality hardwoods, standard lines as well as custom work.  WWW.KWCABS.COM

Check out my Parker Supreme here www.kwcabs.com/parker%20page.htm

Wood Choices...

Offline Bill

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« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2006, 07:10:47 AM »
Yeah, love the thread and both your posts. [:)]

I've been dreaming about a Kojo Mojo. A custom "KoJo" [:p]

Jamie said they could do it but its a bit too rich for me right now.

I was thinking of a satin type finish. He had recommended a non poly (oiled) finish which sounds yummy.

But then I started wondering if that would lend itself to more humidity problems?

Also, most acoustic Koa guitars still have spruce tops to keep them from being too dark tonally. Would a Koa Mojo be too muddy sounding tonally ? Or would it sound pretty much like a mahog Mojo?

Guesses anyone?


Custom '03 Hardtail Artist ; Fly Deluxe 2000; Gibson ES137; 1974 K.Yari DY85; Waterproof SchecterDisposable; Martin Backpacker/paddle combo;LarriveeParlor;VoxAD30VT
A few Flys in my soup