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Author Topic: Acoustic Amp for Live Rig  (Read 4989 times)

Offline guitarmanuk

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« on: January 04, 2007, 07:21:17 AM »
I would like to take full advantage of the capabilities of the Fly and use the piezos on their own on certain songs we play.  I have a Boogie Calibre 50+ for the mags which in most venues runs at about 3 or 4 and this is plenty loud enough against drums, bass, vocals and brass.  I am considering an AER Compact 60 but I am worried that it may not have the balls to cope. I don't want to go through the PA as I want to avoid the issues of foldback etc.

Has anyone else played in a band and used this type of set up?  Did the acoustic side cut through enough?  Has anyone used the AER at a sufficent volume to be able to comment on its suitability? Are there any other amps that would do the job?  I like the AER as it is small and has 2 channels so I can put guitar through one and sax though the other for duo gigs.  I played through one recently and loved it, but it was at a low volume.

Any suggestions or advice would be welcome.

David

1997 Parker Fly Classic transparent Teal Green

www.dancineasy.co.uk my wedding/function band
www.saxandguitar.co.uk my sax and guitar duo
David

1997 Parker Fly Classic transparent Teal Green
1997 Parker Fly Concert Butterscotch

Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

Offline jazzrat

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2007, 08:25:53 AM »
David, I use a full range amp/pa by Centaur Acoustic. 120 watts, single 15 and two tweeters. It has two channels with independent tone & reverb conrtols. I use it for jazz guitar, nylon string, bass and have used a Parker with it to good effect. I play small combo jazz gigs but some with a drummer can get pretty noisy. It's a little under powered for bass but has never let me down with a guitar.
Carvin also make a fine litte unit called an AG100D.

'98 Emerald Classic (soon), '05 Eric Johnson Strat, '04 Epiphone Emperor Regent, MIM jazz bass, Takemine '95 SC-132EC
Fly Classic, Ibanez AS-193, Eric Johnson Strat, Eastman AR403-CE, Cordoba Fusion 12 Maple, Fretless Jazz Bass

Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

jwrooker

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2007, 08:36:50 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by jazzrat

David, I use a full range amp/pa by Centaur Acoustic. 120 watts, single 15 and two tweeters. It has two channels with independent tone & reverb conrtols. I use it for jazz guitar, nylon string, bass and have used a Parker with it to good effect. I play small combo jazz gigs but some with a drummer can get pretty noisy. It's a little under powered for bass but has never let me down with a guitar.
Carvin also make a fine litte unit called an AG100D.

'98 Emerald Classic (soon), '05 Eric Johnson Strat, '04 Epiphone Emperor Regent, MIM jazz bass, Takemine '95 SC-132EC




The Carvin AG100D is a nice looking amp, but I keep reading about reliability problems.  We've had discussions here about other Carvin amps in the past and reliability problems came up in that discussion as well.  I've been using an UltraSound AG50DS3 daily for over a year and it has been rock solid dependable.



John
  • 98 Fly Classic w/Gen 1's
  • 98 Fly Classic w/Duncan rewinds
  • 03 Fly Mojo (Coming soon)
  • 03 NiteFly M w/Duncans


Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

Offline jazzrat

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2007, 09:10:54 AM »
I've heard a simalar rep on the Carvin amps. I will say I've had one of their SS guitar amps for some time and it is fine. The Ultrasound amps are a great choice also. Nice amps, reasonble price.

'98 Emerald Classic (soon), '05 Eric Johnson Strat, '04 Epiphone Emperor Regent, MIM jazz bass, Takemine '95 SC-132EC
Fly Classic, Ibanez AS-193, Eric Johnson Strat, Eastman AR403-CE, Cordoba Fusion 12 Maple, Fretless Jazz Bass

Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

Offline rld25

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2007, 12:28:58 AM »
I use a Genz Benz Shenandoah 100 for the acoustic side and a Tech 21 trademark 120 for the mags. They balance out pretty well. The GB also has two seperate channels, alesis effects built in, and a three position switch on the tweeter.'93 Fly Deluxe,'05 Fly Mojo Flame S/C, '06 Southern Nitefly
Lane

Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

Offline 908ssp

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2007, 08:49:52 AM »
Here is a couple of simple things to remember.

You can't have too many watts. When the sound you're producing is clean undistorted you can't have too many watts, more IS always better. You have a volume knob you can always turn down.

Tube watts are louder then transistor watts. I know technically they aren't but the amps are. Remember watts are measured at say .5% distortion that is the absolute limit on a transistor amp but a tube amp will get much louder then that at greater and greater levels of distortion.

Being loud enough is only half the problem projecting evenly over a wide area is equally as important. This is where a PA typically has an advantage. With a PA you have two speakers often placed high enough over the crowd so the sound can travel undeterred. Your amp on the stage just can't do that. You might be better off buying a couple of JBL EONs so you can face them out at 90degree angles or stack them up as a vertical stack of speakers spreads the sound horizontally.

[^]

Alex

Alex

[IMG]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/ThumbNails/_1010802.jpg[/IMG

Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

Offline DrJeff

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2007, 08:58:44 AM »
My live rig consists of a Tech 21 Trademark 60 with a Tech 21 Power Engine for mags, a Crate CA-125 for the piezos, and now another Crate CA-125 for the Roland synth. Drummers don't mess with me anymore!
1997 Sunburst Nitefly SA
2000 Metallic Red Fly Deluxe
Tech 21 Trademark 60
Crate CA125
Rgds,
Jeff

Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

Offline jamrcat

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2007, 09:48:09 AM »
Good advice on this thread and so many choices. I want to add my voice with Alex and emphasis the wattage issue. Acoustic amps tend to have lower wattage, so I would recommend something with 100 watts or more. Most of the brands out there offer higher wattage at a premium price. I have settled on two choices right now: a Ultrasound CP100 or a Marshall AS100D. I have no doubt the Ultrasound is very good and I have not found even one bad review on the Marshall. I know there are lots of other choices, these are just the two I've been interested in! [^] The PA idea is something I've been using at our church, but it is a hassle moving the cabs and stands all the time! [xx(]

01' Parker Fly Classic w/SD Black Backs
05' Parker TR P-36 Modified w/SD's
Korg AX1500G, D-Tar Mama Bear

jamrcat
Butte, Montana
"A Fly for each hand!"

Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

Offline Bill

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2007, 10:18:53 AM »
After some great forum advice(thanks guys), I eventually bought a used SWR California Blonde (2channel-100 watts) off Flea bay for 400 bucks. Piezo sounds fantastic at low to medium volume. Its soo loud I can't try it at higher volumes at home so I can't comment on that yet. It has a horn/tweeter too but for the Flys I always keep it switched off.

I initially relly wanted the AER compact 60 because I play acoustic too and from what I hear and researched, that is a great amp. But its close to 1000 bucks (and not as loud). I agree PA would be better but whole set up will run closer to 1500 to 2000 and who wants that set-up hassel?

The way I figured it, if I bought the used Blonde and didn't love it, I could always resell it on ebay for the same price I got it for so there is minimal investment risk. And I don't feel like I have to baby it so much since its "been around".

Alex had some more good advice. Since I'm a newbie to amps, he had me searching thru the link of Gear Page forum(?). I learned a lot there too.

PS Try a search on Acoustic amp on this forum as we have numerous threads on the same question [:)]

Custom '03 Hardtail Artist ; Fly Deluxe 2000; Gibson ES137; 1974 K.Yari DY85; SchecterDisposable; Martin Backpacker/paddle combo;LarriveeParlor;VoxAD30VT;SWR California Blonde
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 10:21:21 AM by Bill »
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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

Offline guitarmanuk

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2007, 06:01:48 PM »
Thanks everyone, there is some great advice here.  Alex's point about wattage is very true, as is the point about valve amps.  I had a Boogie Studio 22 (22 watts) that would keep up in a full band setting no problem and would give Marshall 100's a run for their money.

I may need to re-think a bit.  I am restricted a bit on space in the car, transport wise, as with all the kit I take now I could only just about fit a harmonica in the spare space [:D].  I use a 1 x 12 extension cab for the Boogie which would go, and its place in the car would be whatever acoustic amp I choose.  I liked the AER cause it is so darn small.  They make a 100w version but they are $1100 ($2200) so way out of my budget.  The Marshall AS100D is not too pricy and that may be a good uption to try as it also has a second channel to run the sax through for duo gigs.

David

1997 Parker Fly Classic transparent Teal Green

www.dancineasy.co.uk my wedding/function band
www.saxandguitar.co.uk my sax and guitar duo
David

1997 Parker Fly Classic transparent Teal Green
1997 Parker Fly Concert Butterscotch

Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

Offline portnoy

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2007, 06:37:11 PM »
david, Is your amps mic'd up and sent through a PA/mixer at your gigs or is it just the amps you use? because i think the AER should be up to it no problems if they are mic'd up. if not, ahh well it just want to be :-(

i have tried the marshall AS65 i wasnt too impressed by it, it wasnt as nice as the AER.


do fender do acoustic amplifiers? if its anything to go on, if thier acoustic amps are like the clean channel on thier electric guitar amps, then itll be amazing also!

Kavan,

Fly deluxe - ice blue burst( ETA 17th - 21st Jan '07), Ibanez DMM1 daron malakian signature model,   01 gibson gothic explorer. Marshall MG250DFX, Boss GT8 Processor, Elixr Strings, Apple Macbook Core2duo 2ghz/1gb/SD/80gig, Samson CO1U Studio condenser mic

www.myspace.com/suicidesticks

Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

Offline jamrcat

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2007, 06:48:43 PM »
quote:
do fender do acoustic amplifiers? if its anything to go on, if thier acoustic amps are like the clean channel on thier electric guitar amps, then itll be amazing also!
I can't name the model numbers from my memory, but I just saw Fenders new acoustic amps at a store last month. You might want to look into those. By the way: the Marshall AS100D has some great reviews on Musicians Friend check them out! [;)]

01' Parker Fly Classic w/SD Black Backs
05' Parker TR P-36 Modified w/SD's
Korg AX1500G, D-Tar Mama Bear

jamrcat
Butte, Montana
"A Fly for each hand!"

Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

Offline portnoy

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2007, 07:37:22 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by jamrcat

quote:
do fender do acoustic amplifiers? if its anything to go on, if thier acoustic amps are like the clean channel on thier electric guitar amps, then itll be amazing also!
I can't name the model numbers from my memory, but I just saw Fenders new acoustic amps at a store last month. You might want to look into those. By the way: the Marshall AS100D has some great reviews on Musicians Friend check them out! [;)]

01' Parker Fly Classic w/SD Black Backs
05' Parker TR P-36 Modified w/SD's
Korg AX1500G, D-Tar Mama Bear

jamrcat
Butte, Montana




the AS65 didnt seem to have the tone i was looking for more than anything. Its not a bad amp. just wasnt that impressive to us. The AER compact 60 tried afterwards was exactly what i was looking for.  im gonna keep an eye out for any fender amps in general, i want a new tube guitar amp anyhoo.



Kavan,

Fly deluxe - ice blue burst( ETA 17th - 21st Jan '07), Ibanez DMM1 daron malakian signature model,   01 gibson gothic explorer. Marshall MG250DFX, Boss GT8 Processor, Elixr Strings, Apple Macbook Core2duo 2ghz/1gb/SD/80gig, Samson CO1U Studio condenser mic

www.myspace.com/suicidesticks

Acoustic Amp for Live Rig

Offline guitarmanuk

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Acoustic Amp for Live Rig
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2007, 06:59:36 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by portnoy

david, Is your amps mic'd up and sent through a PA/mixer at your gigs or is it just the amps you use? because i think the AER should be up to it no problems if they are mic'd up. if not, ahh well it just want to be :-(

i have tried the marshall AS65 i wasnt too impressed by it, it wasnt as nice as the AER.


do fender do acoustic amplifiers? if its anything to go on, if thier acoustic amps are like the clean channel on thier electric guitar amps, then itll be amazing also!

Kavan,

Fly deluxe - ice blue burst( ETA 17th - 21st Jan '07), Ibanez DMM1 daron malakian signature model,   01 gibson gothic explorer. Marshall MG250DFX, Boss GT8 Processor, Elixr Strings, Apple Macbook Core2duo 2ghz/1gb/SD/80gig, Samson CO1U Studio condenser mic

www.myspace.com/suicidesticks


Kavan.  No, the amps are not mic'd up.  The PA is for vocal and brass only.  We don't have a sound engineer (well we do ... it's me!) and all the mix is done from behind the FOH from the stage.  We set the balance at the sound check, including the minitors, and then I try and leave it.  I like to have the guitar behind me hence why I want whatever acoustic amp I choose to be behind me and have enough power to cut through.

It sounds like the AER may not be enough, so I will have look at some other options.

David

1997 Parker Fly Classic transparent Teal Green

www.dancineasy.co.uk my wedding/function band
www.saxandguitar.co.uk my sax and guitar duo
David

1997 Parker Fly Classic transparent Teal Green
1997 Parker Fly Concert Butterscotch