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Author Topic: Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?  (Read 5823 times)

Offline robbentrower

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?
« on: January 22, 2007, 11:49:24 AM »
've got the mojo. I've got a Traynor 40 tube amp. The Traynor is too loud for playing at home, recording at home, and is also too loud for my rehearsals, and most gigs. I've been thinking about getting a Fender blues jr 15 watt. Anyone here play the JR with a Parker mojo? Anyone heard both side by side. I'm interested in tube tone at lower volumes.
 

Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?

Offline DrJeff

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2007, 12:44:32 PM »
Welcome to the forum.

I've never played a Traynor, but you must have some mighty quiet rehearsals if a 40 watt combo amp is too loud. If I were really concerned about getting the "tube tone" at lower volumes, I'd look into an attenuating device such as a "Hot Plate" or "Power Brake". You could use your Traynor anywhere.

Personally, I wouldn't rule out a decent solid state amp. I gave up on tubes years ago. This is only my opinion and members disagree with me. That's OK because this is a place where nobody gets flamed over a sincere opinion.1997 Sunburst Nitefly SA
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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?

jwrooker

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2007, 01:03:28 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by robbentrower

've got the mojo. I've got a Traynor 40 tube amp. The Traynor is too loud for playing at home, recording at home, and is also too loud for my rehearsals, and most gigs. I've been thinking about getting a Fender blues jr 15 watt. Anyone here play the JR with a Parker mojo? Anyone heard both side by side. I'm interested in tube tone at lower volumes.



I had a Blues, Jr and wasn't terribly impressed with it.  It seemed lifeless.  Didn't have the Fender sparkle, doesn't do high gain at all.  It was just dull.  I put JJ tubes and a Weber Jensen style speaker in it and improved it quite a bit, but I still ended up selling it.  

Something like a Vox AD30VT would be a much more versatile and better sounding amp than the Blues, Jr.



John
[img=left]http://jwrooker.com/images/parkerforum/parkerlogo.gif[/img=left]
98 Fly Classic w/Gen 1's..98 Fly Classic w/Duncan rewinds
03 Fly Mojo..02 NiteFly M w/Duncans


Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?

Offline Guit Fiddle

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2007, 12:03:41 PM »
I agree with pretty much everything said here, but have a few cents to add.  If you like your Traynor, try a YCV20 or even better, a YCV20WR.  It'll whip the pants off of the Blues Junior.

The attenuator is also a good idea, but you do lose the driven speaker characteristics with one.  Another idea is a speaker with a lower sensitivity rating.  If you can find one with 94 or 96 db sensitivity, it will make a big difference in perceived volume.  Even a 15-watter with a 101 or 102 db sensitivity speaker will rattle your pictures off the walls, so a smaller amp might not be the answer.

I'll also second the solid state amp response. I've been using a 1x12 full-range amp (Carvin AG100D) with a Vox Tonelab for years now.  My tone has never been better and is the same at any volume, from practice levels to punishingly loud. The full range amp is brilliant with the piezos as well.  If you want an all-in-one package, I second the suggestion for a Vox AD30VT.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 12:05:00 PM by Guit Fiddle »
 

Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?

Offline robbentrower

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2007, 12:55:54 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Guit Fiddle

I agree with pretty much everything said here, but have a few cents to add.  If you like your Traynor, try a YCV20 or even better, a YCV20WR.  It'll whip the pants off of the Blues Junior.

The attenuator is also a good idea, but you do lose the driven speaker characteristics with one.  Another idea is a speaker with a lower sensitivity rating.  If you can find one with 94 or 96 db sensitivity, it will make a big difference in perceived volume.  Even a 15-watter with a 101 or 102 db sensitivity speaker will rattle your pictures off the walls, so a smaller amp might not be the answer.

I'll also second the solid state amp response. I've been using a 1x12 full-range amp (Carvin AG100D) with a Vox Tonelab for years now.  My tone has never been better and is the same at any volume, from practice levels to punishingly loud. The full range amp is brilliant with the piezos as well.  If you want an all-in-one package, I second the suggestion for a Vox AD30VT.

Good luck!




I also have a POD XT live, but currently do not use it in my live rig because I reserve my zen drive pedal for the live rig, and nothing on the POD XT live can quite match its tone. Is there a point to an attenuator if you use a overdrive pedal, most of the time? Or is the attenuator just for clean sounds? As in, crank the tube amp on the clean channel and 'play with that'? My Traynor is a two channel, but I never use the built in overdrive as it's not as good as my zen drive.

 What does the VOX AD30VT sell for generally? What is the advantage of the YVC20WR over the Blues Jr? Ahhhh...so many options! The problems i s that the attenuator will cost me $350, and I could almost buy a second amp for that price.
 

Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?

jwrooker

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2007, 01:27:13 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by robbentrower
[
 What does the VOX AD30VT sell for generally? What is the advantage of the YVC20WR over the Blues Jr? Ahhhh...so many options! The problems i s that the attenuator will cost me $350, and I could almost buy a second amp for that price.



The AD30 VT runs about $240 for the standard grille and $279 with a classic Vox grille at North Coast Music.

http://www.voxshowroom.com/northcoast/shopping/index.htm



John
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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?

Offline Guit Fiddle

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2007, 01:30:59 PM »
Let me add to your confusion, if I may. [8D]

Are you using the POD XT Live through your guitar amp?  If so, that's problem #1.  Modeling devices just plain don't sound good through electric guitar amps. Modelers have replicated all of the nuance and coloration of a specific amp's preamp, power amp, speaker, and interaction.  So when you run that carefully colored signal through a guitar amp and introduce the coloration from your own amp, you get a tone that doesn't cut it.  Try running the POD through a full range amp like an acoustic amp or keyboard amp, with the POD's global output setting on PA or line (not guitar amp) and the speaker sims turned on.  You may be shocked at what you hear.  That's one option.  

As far as attenuators, they are only useful if power-amp distortion is part of your tone. Otherwise, they are pretty much a waste. As I mentioned, there is no substitute for volume with a tube amp, attenuated or not. You still don't get high-volume speaker characteristics and interaction by choking the amp with an attenuator.  Since you're using the Zen, I'd scratch the the attenuator idea.

The AD30VT streets for $259 I think, and it's shockingly good albeit not as flexible as a stand-alone modeler. They really are great though.  The advantage of the YCV20WR over the Blues Jr is TONE.  I've played both, and there is really no comparison.
 

Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?

Offline robbentrower

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2007, 01:49:41 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Guit Fiddle

Let me add to your confusion, if I may. [8D]

Are you using the POD XT Live through your guitar amp?  If so, that's problem #1.  Modeling devices just plain don't sound good through electric guitar amps. Modelers have replicated all of the nuance and coloration of a specific amp's preamp, power amp, speaker, and interaction.  So when you run that carefully colored signal through a guitar amp and introduce the coloration from your own amp, you get a tone that doesn't cut it.  Try running the POD through a full range amp like an acoustic amp or keyboard amp, with the POD's global output setting on PA or line (not guitar amp) and the speaker sims turned on.  You may be shocked at what you hear.  That's one option.  

As far as attenuators, they are only useful if power-amp distortion is part of your tone. Otherwise, they are pretty much a waste. As I mentioned, there is no substitute for volume with a tube amp, attenuated or not. You still don't get high-volume speaker characteristics and interaction by choking the amp with an attenuator.  Since you're using the Zen, I'd scratch the the attenuator idea.

The AD30VT streets for $259 I think, and it's shockingly good albeit not as flexible as a stand-alone modeler. They really are great though.  The advantage of the YCV20WR over the Blues Jr is TONE.  I've played both, and there is really no comparison.



Thanks for all the info. Now I have to think about the attenuator,and I was going to go there an buy it today. Can't the POD XT LIVE be run through effects loop on my amp, thereby bypassing the coloration of the amp? Wouldn't this be preferable than buying another 'acoustic' amp? Now you guys have me looking into Vox! What's the difference between the VOX AD30VT and the Traynor YCV20? Any prefereneces one way or another?
 

Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?

Offline robbentrower

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2007, 01:53:33 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by robbentrower

quote:
Originally posted by Guit Fiddle

Let me add to your confusion, if I may. [8D]

Are you using the POD XT Live through your guitar amp?  If so, that's problem #1.  Modeling devices just plain don't sound good through electric guitar amps. Modelers have replicated all of the nuance and coloration of a specific amp's preamp, power amp, speaker, and interaction.  So when you run that carefully colored signal through a guitar amp and introduce the coloration from your own amp, you get a tone that doesn't cut it.  Try running the POD through a full range amp like an acoustic amp or keyboard amp, with the POD's global output setting on PA or line (not guitar amp) and the speaker sims turned on.  You may be shocked at what you hear.  That's one option.  

As far as attenuators, they are only useful if power-amp distortion is part of your tone. Otherwise, they are pretty much a waste. As I mentioned, there is no substitute for volume with a tube amp, attenuated or not. You still don't get high-volume speaker characteristics and interaction by choking the amp with an attenuator.  Since you're using the Zen, I'd scratch the the attenuator idea.

The AD30VT streets for $259 I think, and it's shockingly good albeit not as flexible as a stand-alone modeler. They really are great though.  The advantage of the YCV20WR over the Blues Jr is TONE.  I've played both, and there is really no comparison.



Thanks for all the info. Now I have to think about the attenuator,and I was going to go there an buy it today. When you say

"You still don't get high-volume speaker characteristics and interaction by choking the amp with an attenuator."

What exactly is the point of the attenuator then, and why does everyone who owns one rave about them?

As for my POD, Can't the POD XT LIVE be run through effects loop on my amp, thereby bypassing the coloration of the amp? Wouldn't this be preferable than buying another 'acoustic' amp? Now you guys have me looking into Vox! What's the difference between the VOX AD30VT and the Traynor YCV20? Any prefereneces one way or another?

 

Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?

Offline Guit Fiddle

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2007, 02:34:24 PM »
I see the point of an attenuator for people who like to get their overdrive from the power section of their amp, but want to get it at lower volumes. The speaker interaction is different, yes, but the power amp overdrive and tone still comes through.  It's a nice compromise to being able to crank the amp.

Running a modeler through the power amp and speaker of a guitar amp is marginally better than running it all the way through the preamp input, but is still using it outside of its element.  How many times have we heard 'I love my POD for recording, and even going straight through a PA it sounds great, but just doesn't cut it live'.  The guys that say this are using electric guitar amps 99% of the time.  Modelers, by design, are intended to accurately reproduce amp tones through a full range system.  Anything else is using them outside of their design parameters, and the results will be less than ideal.  

Personally, I love using a full range system.  Bass, keys, acoustic, singing, electric guitar via modeler....all instruments, one amp, great sound with all of them.

YCV20WR = 15-watt 2-channel tube amp.  Vox AD30VT = solid state, modeler, effects.  Check out www.yorkville.com and www.voxamps.co.uk for details.
 

Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?

Offline 908ssp

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2007, 09:42:26 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by robbentrower

because I reserve my zen drive pedal for the live rig, and nothing on the POD XT live can quite match its tone. Is there a point to an attenuator if you use a overdrive pedal, most of the time?



Absolutely there is a point. If you haven't run your amp turned all the way up maybe you don't know what it is. Most of the guys on this list don't they think modelers sound good they don't but I don't argue with them. I run some pedals in the front for the tone they impose sometimes and my amps on 9 or 10 at home and they sound fabulous. The sound of power tubes in saturation and compressed is where it is at. Are the speakers flapping on the frames no but they are working and I can still hear the phone ring and my kid still falls a sleep while I play. I got rid of the modeler I had a few months ago traded it on an acoustic amp for my piezos and no I don't run an attenuator on the acoustic amp.

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Alex

Alex

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?

Offline robbentrower

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Anyone tried a blues jr against a traynor?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2007, 10:27:32 AM »
Okay, my order on the attenuator is in. Should be ready next week. I've added the 'line out' option, and a volt tap to keep the tubes alive longer. Really looking forward to hearing it. Total cost $320 plus tax. That's a lot less than the 'ultimate' attenuators' that are the same thing, and sold by that guy in the US. And I have the option for trying it out for a week and returning it if I don't like it.

Now all I need is an acoustic amp for my piezo system. It never ends. What is the best acoustic amp (not too large) for the Parker piezo? Roland?