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Author Topic: Chord families and Substitutions  (Read 16886 times)

Offline prjacobs

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2007, 03:34:40 PM »
I'm brain dead... sorry. The root is usually voiced at the top of a horn section, when wanted. Ditto for piano
 

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline loumt123

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2007, 04:31:11 PM »
by the way, prjacobs, quite an impressive resume [8D]
 

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline prjacobs

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2007, 04:49:36 PM »
Thanks... Lot's of producing and arranging for Sesame Street.  Everyone wanted to be on the show, and it gave me the opportunity to work in many different styles.
 

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline magnummike71

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2007, 08:39:31 AM »
The way I understand it, if you add the color (9s 11s 13s etc..), they are added unless you have the dominant 7. CEGD=Cadd9 CEGBbD=C9. If it doesn't have the 7, it is a major chord with color; if the 7 is there, it is a dominant. I may be incorrect and if I am please let me know. It has been something I have been struggling with for a while. Also, I have been led to believe that when playing these chords on a limited 6 strings, sometimes the voices need to be left out. leaving a root and third is better than leaving the 7 and 9 in a C9 chord. I guess it comes down to letting the bass player grab the root...??? Help me if I am off.

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Chord families and Substitutions

Offline loumt123

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2007, 03:47:15 PM »
Let me phrase this the best way I can for you. A seventh chord is a triad plus a fourth note forming the interval of a seventh above the root note. A dominant 7 chord is a type of seventh chord.

Any chord can be embellished. It is just a matter of what sounds good, or what is "theoretically" correct.
 

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline prjacobs

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2007, 03:04:16 PM »
Magnummike71, you are correct,  Without a flatted 7th, any 9ths, 11ths and 13ths are merely 2nds, 4ths, and 6ths and the chord functions traditionally as a tonic. (Not necessarily the one chord of the original key, but the key you're in now). Major and minor 7th chords are very different animals.  Try ending a song on a dominant 7th chord and you'll see it has no feeling of resolving to a key. (Yes, yes, I do play blues...)
 For me, 2 things happen in music; either you're in a key or you're approaching a dominant/on a dominant.... Meaning you're at one place or on the way to another.  Any fancy modes, scales, or substitutions are just building or altering structures at these moments.  If you know where you are musically, you'll know when to use a dominant, major, minor, augmented, or diminished chord.

Simon, I have to respond to your comment about shortcuts.  There are no shortcuts, but there are ways of organizing your understanding of harmony and song structure to greatly simplify what happens in music.  
Best to all...
« Last Edit: May 12, 2007, 03:10:55 PM by prjacobs »
 

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline magnummike71

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2007, 12:03:51 PM »
Prjacobs,
Thanks. That makes a bit more sense to me. I have noticed that the dominant chord works as a 7, 9 or 13 as long as the 7 is there. What you wrote also explains to me how a key could change in the middle of a song. I've always had a bit of trouble with that.
Thanks again.

96 Fly Deluxe Hardtail
00 Larrivee P03
97 Tak FP360sc
96 Fly Deluxe Hardtail
94 custom strat hardtail (chambered)
00 Larrivee P03
Garrison G1220
97 Tak FP360sc

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline prjacobs

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2007, 01:14:51 PM »
Mike, In the old days, it was always V - I, dominant to tonic.  Music has evolved, (in some ways:), so much that now we can travel from any key into any other key.  
You're simply in a key or on a dominant chord, functionally speaking.  Sort of the GPS for music.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2007, 01:16:36 PM by prjacobs »
 

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline loumt123

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2007, 08:28:43 PM »
It sure has evolved...but the same old rules still apply.

Pretty interesting huh?
 

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline andymcd

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2008, 09:40:44 PM »
i'd love to learn more about the sanford gold method. please post more. i'm looking for his book, but not finding it. i heard his wife is perhaps still with us and living in florida. anyone know?
 

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline prjacobs

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2008, 10:50:44 PM »
Andy, I believe that Sanford's wife is no longer alive.  I met her in 1975 and she seemed pretty frail then.  She was selling his books from their home in Florida, but that was decades ago.  If she's still with us, I'd say she was in her mid to late 90s.  Sanford self-published his book, so I have no idea where to get one now.
 

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline loumt123

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2008, 11:05:58 PM »
Do they have any family that could be carrying on the business? It might be worth researching.
 

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline prjacobs

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2008, 12:01:58 AM »
Lou, Sanford didn't have any children. I don't know if he had any siblings; I don't recall him talking about anyone.  It's an interesting legal question.  His book certainly should be out in the world, but if no Golds are alive, and no one owns the rights, I wonder what would or should happen.  I know I've said this before, but Sanford changed my musical life forever, and I feel so honored that he was my teacher and friend.
 

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline simonlock

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« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2008, 10:00:06 AM »
It might be worth resurrecting if it's that good.

Simon
Vancouver,BC
A Whole Mess of Flys and I Love Them ALL!!!!!
 

Chord families and Substitutions

Offline andymcd

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Chord families and Substitutions
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2008, 02:01:47 PM »
it's really a shame that information on gold's methods is not available. i've met several people who were profoundly impacted by his teaching. i think i probably qualify since, though i never met the man or studied with him, whatever he seemed to put with his students is so strong that it comes through. i've learned a lot from just my exposure to his students and talking with them (including listening to you here). i think the implication is that (as johnny smith said) if a method isn't simple, it just won't be worth much. that's bad paraphrasing, but i think you catch my drift. gold's method goes to the core of what improvisers and composers need to know about the practical theory of modern music. okay, so maybe it's not so 'simple' at first blush, but very practical.