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Author Topic: Mac or PC?  (Read 8906 times)

Offline Toonman

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Mac or PC?
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2007, 01:22:15 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy



 
quote:
I've worked with computers for a loooong time (started with a Commodore 64)


Dang, you got me beat. I started out on a 8088 when I was learning on AutoCAD v2.6




Hehe... ah, yes, back in the days... [:)]. And I'm not THAT old, actually... it's just that I was... uumm... an unusual child [:D].

Autocad, eh? Are you into engineering/architecture? I started doing graphics/music on my Commodore. Actually, what I do for a living are visual effects for films (y'know.. the 3d stuff and all that), so I'm kinda realted to Acad (I don't use it, but the software I use is like it's cousin).

I always chuckle when I remember a friend of mine got a 386 with 32 MB RAM... we thought he wanted to conquer the world! [:p]... ah, the days... (hahaha)

Sergio Muciño
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http://www.sergiomucino.com

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Offline Paul Marossy

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« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2007, 01:44:23 PM »
quote:
Autocad, eh? Are you into engineering/architecture? I started doing graphics/music on my Commodore. Actually, what I do for a living are visual effects for films (y'know.. the 3d stuff and all that), so I'm kinda realted to Acad (I don't use it, but the software I use is like it's cousin).


Yep, I work in a consulting engineering office - for 18 years now. So, you use 3D modeling programs and animation programs? Yeah, you see that in architecture sometimes for real time walk through animations. I would never use anything like that in what I do at work, though. Rarely even do any 3D drawings. [:0]

EDIT: All the PCB layouts at my DIY were drawn with AutoCAD, BTW.

quote:
I always chuckle when I remember a friend of mine got a 386 with 32 MB RAM... we thought he wanted to conquer the world!


Yeah, I remember my first CAD station - a 386 with a 40 Meg hardrive running at 33mHz or something like that. I had to back up all my work onto 5.25" floppy disks. I'm glad I don't have to deal with that anymore! [:p]

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« Last Edit: May 30, 2007, 01:45:08 PM by Paul Marossy »

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Offline bno

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Mac or PC?
« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2007, 01:47:06 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Toonman

Oh, God... not the dreaded "PC VS MAC" thread... :)
But look at how civil we are.  [}:)]  
I think it's still true that Macs are generally more people friendly to people who are not computer friendly because of all the reasons you outline above.  Lou should be very happy with his Mac.  Until he sees someone running Sonar64 on a 30" Surface.  [:p]

Bob, I think Lou (and anyone else who traces this thread) is going to need practical input, based on your experience, as to what the base/minimum configuration should be if he wants to get decent performance from the Logic platform.  Is the built in audio adequate or will he need an external USB/Firewire interface? I'd be curious to know myself.
'94 Fly Deluxe
Listen first, then play.

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Offline Toonman

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Mac or PC?
« Reply #48 on: May 30, 2007, 02:29:50 PM »
If by "built in audio" you're referring to the sound card that comes with the computer, I will say those are NOT good for good audio work (and I don't care what Creative says in their PR/marketing sheets!). You need to get an audio interface designed and built for audio recording in mind, with good A/D converters. Firewire ports transmit data faster that USB 2.0, so I lean towards FW interfaces.

As for Logic, here's what their webpage states:

System Requirements

    * Macintosh computer with PowerPC G4, PowerPC G5 or Intel Core Duo; Intel Core Duo, PowerPC G5, or dual PowerPC G4 processor recommended
    * Logic Node applications require PowerPC G5 or Intel Core Duo and Gigabit Ethernet connectivity
    * 512MB of RAM
    * Mac OS X v10.4.3 or later for PowerPC-based systems; Mac OS X v10.4.4 or later for Intel-based systems
    * QuickTime 7.0.3 or later
    * 8GB of available hard drive space
    * DVD drive for software installation
    * Available USB port for XSKey (copy protection)
    * Low-latency multi-I/O audio hardware and MIDI interface recommended

Now, when a company publishes minimum system requirements, add to them 1/3 - 1/2 additional power for real-world production requirements, and that's what you'll need. And as you can see, they do mention a "low-latency milti-I/O audio hardware and MIDI interface".

Hope this helps!

P.S. Yes, I agree. This is the most civilized PC VS MAC thread ever. [:)]

Sergio Muciño
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http://www.sergiomucino.com
« Last Edit: May 30, 2007, 02:31:04 PM by Toonman »

Mac or PC?

Offline DrJeff

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Mac or PC?
« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2007, 02:42:46 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Toonman

Oh, God... not the dreaded "PC VS MAC" thread... :)

Sergio makes several excellent points. Microsoft and Apple management made divergent business decisions in moving their products into the marketplace.
 
I am blessed that price need not the first consideration as it was when I first purchased a "real" computer. So, my next computer will be a Mac, but I realize a PC is quite capable of serious mojo.

BTW, my first computer was a 16K Radio Shack Color Computer. Oh, the joys of a 32 column word processor -- on cassette tape no less. [xx(]
1997 Sunburst Nitefly
2000 Metallic Red Fly Deluxe w/Roland Mod
Rgds,
Jeff

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Offline sfw

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« Reply #50 on: May 30, 2007, 03:33:14 PM »
quote:
I've worked with computers for a loooong time (started with a Commodore 64)


Sorry, Commadore VIC 20 with a cassette tape hooked up to a 13inch b/w tv, guy here. Still have it, the computer not the tv. I'm trying to see if I can get it mounted inside my nitefly for an onboard midi processor :) Also, staying out of the PC MAC wars. To each their own, no better no worse, just yours.

- Scott

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P6; PM10; PM20; Franken-Fenders
Wiggles Murray, Barbie Electric w/matching mic, American Idol electric, Pink Hello Kitty
- Scott

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Offline Toonman

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Mac or PC?
« Reply #51 on: May 30, 2007, 03:45:58 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by sfw

quote:
I've worked with computers for a loooong time (started with a Commodore 64)


Sorry, Commadore VIC 20 with a cassette tape hooked up to a 13inch b/w tv, guy here.



Aaarrgghh!! Ok, you win.[:)]

Yeah, a friend of mine still had the cassette player hooked up to his C64 (I was lucky to get the disc drive). I remember it would take 20 minutes to load Kung Fu Master off that thing! It was good though, as it allowed us to get the munchies ready for a good session of a**-whoopin'!! [B)] [:D]

How I miss fiddling with ADSR-filtered tones in that thing... [8)]

Sergio Muciño
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http://www.sergiomucino.com

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Offline sfw

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« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2007, 04:14:35 PM »
Yeah, my first commercial software program was a "backup" program for C64 diskettes. It would copy anything to make a "backup" copy for your own personal use. Kind of like the DVD "backup" programs today. Sold about 400 of those things, thought I was BIG TIME in the software business. Then I learned. Oh for the good old days of ...... I was always a big c64 Summer Games fan. I could hit a 10.0 on the high dive everytime doing 4 somersaults. And I used to walk uphill both ways through the snow to get to school, at least that's what I tell my kids.

Actually I think this is a good comparison:

Current Fender/Gibson = IBM 8086 PC
Parker Fly = iMAC

- Scott

Fly Artist (purchase fund started)
NiteFly '97
P6; PM10; PM20; Franken-Fenders
Wiggles Murray, Barbie Electric w/matching mic, American Idol electric, Pink Hello Kitty
- Scott

PM10; Few Nitefly's; Franken-Fenders
Wiggles Murray, Barbie Electric w/matching mic, American Idol electric, Pink Hello Kitty

Mac or PC?

Offline uburoibob

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« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2007, 08:43:11 PM »
IMHO, the 16-bit audio in a Mac is perfectly useable. In fact, I've used it many times. Moving to more professional sound inputs via USB or Firewire is great too, gettin 24bit/96kHz in is wonderful. But not necessary. CD audio is still 16bit/44.1kHz no matter how you slice it. And considering that most audio is delivered on the internet in some lossy manner - either MP3 or AAC as the most popular - anything more than 16/44.1 could be considered overkill.

My recommendation is get as much computer and stuff as you can afford. That said, I am running a fairly stock iMac G5 with 1 meg of RAM using Logic Express and some of the Jam Packs (1, Symphony, World, Rhythm) and can get just about anything I need. BUT, you don't even need to go that far. A STOCK 17" iMac (the $1199 one) these days will run GarageBand just fine (it comes with it as part of the deal) and it's a great place to start. A STOCK MacBook (the $1299 one is recommended, as it has the rewritable DVD drive) will also work just fine. Nothing else. But if you WANT to add on, see my post under the "Need A Little Help From The Experts" thread in this forum.

Happy to take this offline and help anyone configure a system. BTW - BSW just became an Apple dealer. They will be putting together some cool bundles... http://www.bswusa.com - the Apple page will be up by June 8th..

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch -   2000 Fly Standard Classic in Cherry Red - http://bobmartin1111.com

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Offline Toonman

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« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2007, 09:00:55 PM »
Hey Bob... I totally understand your point, but I will have to disagree due to one quite determining factor... signal resolution.
When you use a low-resolution signal (such as a 16-bit signal), you decrease substantially your signal-to-noise ratio, due to the fact that you're sampling the incoming waveform with less frequency. Add to this the fact that a poor sampled signal can have increased chances of suffering from audio aliasing (artifacts) after being processed by audio processing devices (a.k.a. effects), and you have a VERY strong reason to never record anything under 24 bit.

Of course, all this is arguable. If you want to drop some lines that you will use as reference for something else, or you're playing around, you may very well use your built-in audio... but for anything serious, you will not want to go below 24 bits. And you're right... CD's play audio at 16 bit, but this audio comes from a dithered 24-but signal (if not higher on systems that can handle that, such as TDM's). A signal that is mastered at 24-bit and then dithered down to 16 bit will definitely have more quality than a signal mastered at 16-bit and passed along with no dithering.

This is of course my very own $0.02. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just giving my probably not very accurate opinion [:)].

(On a personal sidenote, I ruined a perfect take of a solo I was recording for my currently-in-post CD by not noticing that I had set the project to 16-bit because I was "just sketching anyway"... lesson learned... never again! [xx(] ).

(P.S. Any audio engineer in the room feel free to come and slap me silly if I'm speaking nonsense... [8]).

Sergio Muciño
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http://www.sergiomucino.com

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Offline uburoibob

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« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2007, 09:12:00 PM »
Sergio, you are right too.

And that's why it's important to sort of learn the ropes as you learn the gear. Getting the most out of a 16/44.1 input is an invaluable experience for anyone. If you can learn how to get maximum signal in at that level, then you are going to be great at working with 24/96.

The point is - start with a stock setup. Learn the limitations first hand. Overcome them. One step at a time. You CAN get great recordings out of 16/44.1 IF you know what you are doing. I am a firm believer in learning from the bottom up. I know this is how I learned, and how I STILL can get great results from almost anything I am given to work with.

Conisdering we are still less than a decade away from 4 tracks on a 1 7/8 ips cassette deck, 16/44.1 is LIGHT years ahead of that. You can get pro results from 16/44.1. And then you can take it to the next level, and so on.

Cool thing is, you won't have to replace your Mac. Just get the right interface. Hardware and software are already ready when you are!

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
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Offline BrainWorm

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« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2007, 02:27:10 AM »
I went to the computer store and bought any video card and installed it in my Mac about seven years ago. The maker had a driver for the card in a Mac, no problem. Did not have to  go through Apple to do it. Video cards, ethernet cards, hard drives, after market CPU's, RAM,  it's all been on the market for years for Macs.
I record at 16/44.1 because that's what the CD is going to be, and I read you lose quality  when you compress from the higher rate.

"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."
"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."

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Offline badmotorfinger74

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« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2007, 11:54:27 AM »
I bought my first Mac almost two years ago (PowerMac G5).  I was a little nervous having to use a new operating system, and setup a home studio on it (previously I was using a Roland VS-880).  I'm happy to say that it was a relatively painless process.  I'm using Logic Pro (got a $500 rebate on it) with a Presonus Firebox as my soundcard.  My plan is to sell the PowerMac once Apple releases Leopard, and replace it with a MacBook Pro so that I can mess with Logic without having to lock myself in the bedroom.  My wife (who isn't a big fan of her Dell laptop) wants to make the switch to a black MacBook around the same time.  In my experience, all of the praises that people have been saying of the Macs are true.  I rarely have any errors (the exception being when I'm running  about 5 instances of Amplitube 2... What a hog that is).  I love the other apps that come with it as well (iPhoto, iMovie, etc.)
 

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Offline uburoibob

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« Reply #58 on: May 31, 2007, 12:14:18 PM »
Yup. Generally I restart my Macs once a month or so, whether they want it or not. They never crash. SERIOUSLY.

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch -   2000 Fly Standard Classic in Cherry Red - http://bobmartin1111.com

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Offline simonlock

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« Reply #59 on: May 31, 2007, 01:30:00 PM »
I must have gotten a lemon Mac. Mine crashes freezes and the hard drive died. Sounds just like a PC to me.

Simon
Vancouver,BC