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Author Topic: Live Earth  (Read 6506 times)

Offline tildeslash

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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2007, 05:37:57 PM »
Hip Hop is legit.
But what Kanye did in that performance with the Police is to degrade hip hop.

In my book he just became a douchebag.
 

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Offline Yoyo

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« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2007, 06:04:44 PM »
I used to love Tone-loc's stuff. Pity he disappeared.
The only thing that exists is this moment now.

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Offline ChicagoKid

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« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2007, 06:22:32 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Yoyo

I used to love Tone-loc's stuff. Pity he disappeared.






I'm more of an MC Hammer kinda guy. Them was sum mad skilz, fo shizzle. You know how I roll. Holla! PEACE! Word to your mutha......

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Offline prjacobs

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« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2007, 06:54:02 PM »
We all have different tastes, and mine tend to include appreciating skill on an actual instrument that you play, for example, a Parker guitar.  The Police spent years playing together, perfecting their sound, and Sting's composition is truly innovative.  Yes, there's some good hip hop, don't hate me, but 99% of rap deserves a c in front of the rap.
Kanye sang totally out of key, and out of time for that matter, showing how poor of a musician he is.


 

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Offline loumt123

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« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2007, 07:17:43 PM »
The voice is as much of an instrument as any other. By the way, isn't that the goal of an instrument you "play" to try and achieve what a voice can?

Regardless, there is alot more to the voice then singing tones. It is percussive as well, and when mixed with clever lyrics you have hip hop. Find an underground rap artist and try rhyming like they do. You'd be surprised at how difficult some of it is. There's so many elements that goes into good rap I can't even begin to explain.

My point and case, the voice is a 100 percent valid instrument, perhaps more so then any instrument you physically play due to its versatility. Like any other isntrument there are 100 different ways to play it. Doesn't mean a said method is less legitimate than another. I used to think similarly until I took the time to listen to some stuff.
 

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Offline jamrcat

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« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2007, 10:51:16 PM »
quote:
don't hate me, but 99% of rap deserves a c in front of the rap.
+1  I have written three responses to this thread concerning rap. I had to erase all of them because I was so negative. prjacobs said it so well in a few words. Thanks for helping me out! [:D]

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Offline Lwinn171

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« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2007, 11:08:34 PM »
I have no problem with rap, as a whole... some of it is pretty good (like any art form, about 10% of it is REALLY good, and it scales down from there). My objection to this was that it was done over a straight-forward live version of the song. Not over a hip-hop beat, or a remashed, sampled hip-hop style creation. It just didn't work the way it was presented, and actually detracted from what was going on. And yes, some rap is awful. So is some of any kind of music you'd care to name. Just my humble whatever...

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Offline prjacobs

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« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2007, 11:15:17 PM »
Yes, the voice is a valid instrument, but an  instrumentalist will use more than the rhythmic and percussive aspects of a voice. Most importantly, at least traditionally,  an instrumentalist will try to achieve the "singing" tone of a.... singer.  The voice expresses melody uniquely and understanding intervals, register, dynamics and emotion in vocal terms will greatly help any musician.  If you've just got great rhythm and no melody, you're a.... drummer:)  Sort of.....:)
Clever lyrics do exist in hip hop, and their driving force has created some great new sounds.  For that hip hop deserves credit. But in reality, the rhythmic aspect of hip hop is highly overrated.  I have made hip hop tracks, one of my friends worked with Public Enemy and, I'm sorry, it's not hard. Give me some samples, loops and a computer and it's a piece of cake.  Get a 4 bar groove together, cut and paste..... Far easier than practicing an instrument for years and playing without time correction, beat detective, pitch correction, etc.  I started to get so many calls for rap tracks that I had to just start saying no.  It wasn't what I wanted to do.
Yes, hip hop is legitimate, but it's just not on the same level as instrumental music/vocal music, in terms of the skill sets required.  
I can go see a punk band and love the energy, but anyone playing 3 or 4 chords all night isn't going to knock me out artistically.  (Except for blues musicians, but then again it's what they're playing and singing on top of those 3 chords:)
There is great creativity in hip hop, but in strictly musical terms, for me, it falls short.  Sorry....
I can guarantee you that if Sting was put in the position of rapping, (with a rehearsal), with a hip hop band, he'd be great, because he's a great musician and poet.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2007, 11:16:59 PM by prjacobs »
 

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Offline uburoibob

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« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2007, 12:11:47 AM »
Seems it all comes down to subjectivity.

Myself, I really don't like a lot of the performers people on this board seem to idolize. I can certainly do without most of the shredders and speed metal people in the world. Anyone who plays by arpeggiating and running scales and modes just leave me cold and wondering why people pay to watch them practice. There's a lot of art out there, but unfortunately, most of it gets buried by corporations pushing the likes of Metallica or Chicago or Beyonce or American Idol or America's Got Talent or whatever milquetoast c.rap there is going on. I thought Metallica's performance was just plain silly. Madonna was at least interesting. Duran Duran - did I dream that or did it really happen? Thank god they didn't invite Journey or Rush. What must it be like to have to play David Gilmour's lines note for note in Roger Water's band? There's so much crap out there. The most interesting thing, to me, was whomever sang "What A Wonderful World" at the end of NBC's coverage. Rap is valid art. Kanye was not in his best form, nor is he representative of the best of that form.

Art to me can be one note played right. Complexity for the sake of complexity stinks. Yes, I can play fusion, but why? Been there, done it. Got the wife beater. Sustaining the energy and feel in a punk band was much more of a challenge, for me, than playing Mahavishnu or Return to Forever covers. The Cramps are far more interesting artistically, to me, than Yngvie or Steve Vai or Joe Satriani or Martone. If you really want to extend what PRjacobs is talking about, the ultimate form is solo guitar - and there are about 10 guys in the world who can pull that off the way it's supposed to be.

Why am I ranting? Cuz everybody's preaching like style is gospel here. Rock and Roll is meant to be a 3 chord, bash it out and give it your all music. The day Steely Dan showed up is the day rock died. And so did jazz. Mighta been the worst thing to happen to both forms. Fortunately, I never have to hear them again.

I'd rather look at a Rothco than a Norman Rockwell any day. Both are artists, but it really is all subjective, isn't it?

Whoa! I think I had too much coffee!

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« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 12:13:37 AM by uburoibob »
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Offline loumt123

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« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2007, 12:32:52 AM »
There's the DJ and the MC. I'm not talking about sample based hip hop beats. I'm referring to the MC's that write, rhyme, and perform. I look at the MC as the percussion of vocal music. It's all about phrasing, rhythm, and rhyme.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=35869762 ebonics might be one of my favorite songs. Catchy, and clever.

This is where I think rap takes alot of skill. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cn3F5OTLW3k
to rhyme better than most people construct sentences is pretty impressive...to me at least haha.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oUiv617LUAo&mode=related&search= and finally another good freestyle. If you don't know what a freestyle is, it's like improv for rap. Nothing is premeditated, it's all on the spot.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 12:37:27 AM by loumt123 »
 

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Offline Detonator

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« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2007, 02:11:14 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

Yes, the voice is a valid instrument, but an  instrumentalist will use more than the rhythmic and percussive aspects of a voice. Most importantly, at least traditionally,  an instrumentalist will try to achieve the "singing" tone of a.... singer.  The voice expresses melody uniquely and understanding intervals, register, dynamics and emotion in vocal terms will greatly help any musician.  If you've just got great rhythm and no melody, you're a.... drummer:)  Sort of.....:)
Clever lyrics do exist in hip hop, and their driving force has created some great new sounds.  For that hip hop deserves credit. But in reality, the rhythmic aspect of hip hop is highly overrated.  I have made hip hop tracks, one of my friends worked with Public Enemy and, I'm sorry, it's not hard. Give me some samples, loops and a computer and it's a piece of cake.  Get a 4 bar groove together, cut and paste..... Far easier than practicing an instrument for years and playing without time correction, beat detective, pitch correction, etc.  I started to get so many calls for rap tracks that I had to just start saying no.  It wasn't what I wanted to do.
Yes, hip hop is legitimate, but it's just not on the same level as instrumental music/vocal music, in terms of the skill sets required.  
I can go see a punk band and love the energy, but anyone playing 3 or 4 chords all night isn't going to knock me out artistically.  (Except for blues musicians, but then again it's what they're playing and singing on top of those 3 chords:)
There is great creativity in hip hop, but in strictly musical terms, for me, it falls short.  Sorry....
I can guarantee you that if Sting was put in the position of rapping, (with a rehearsal), with a hip hop band, he'd be great, because he's a great musician and poet.



Just wanted to say that this is absolutely 110% dead on.

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Offline portnoy

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« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2007, 04:32:23 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by Yoyo

Youtube to the rescue Lwinn.

"http://www.youtube.com/v/a4SPyv6I5N8"

The only thing that exists is this moment now.



that was really good until Kanye west came on. it didnt fit with the music. I think Kanye should stick to his own stuff, which is what he does best. instead of ruining a classic[V]




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Offline guitarmanuk

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« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2007, 06:55:20 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by portnoy

quote:
Originally posted by Yoyo

Youtube to the rescue Lwinn.

"http://www.youtube.com/v/a4SPyv6I5N8"

The only thing that exists is this moment now.



that was really good until Kanye west came on. it didnt fit with the music. I think Kanye should stick to his own stuff, which is what he does best. instead of ruining a classic[V]




Kavan,

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Great to see the clip as I missed it on the night.  John Mayer has done his own acoustic verion of Message in a Bottle which I really like. I think it was on the Any Given Thursday DVD.

Andy summers is still amazing for 64 but he did look a bit funny stood between Mayer and Copeland at the end [:D]

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Offline Bill

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« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2007, 07:40:54 AM »
Yeah, Andy and Mayer are competing for the "weirdest facial expressions during a performance" awards. Joe Coc*er is out due to a Bells palsey. (unfair advantage). [:D]

Andy looked a bit psycho. Or sort of like he was in the middle of his colonoscopy when the sedation wore off. [:I] That moustache has got to go.[B)]  But man his he good.[^]

John, well...

His singing is very good but its actually hard to get into his singing live with all that weird facial contorsion stuff going on.
Its like he's got worms or something under his skin that are trying to wiggle out.[:0] He needs a Botox overdose before going on stage.[:D]

Its kind of like the first time you saw Jay Leno. At first all you can think of is man, that guy is wierd looking. But then you get use to it and realize he's pretty good. Sort of. (I'm a Letterman guy).

Anyway if Mayer couldn't sing at all, he'd still be famous. At least I'd pay to watch him play guitar.

Now if Kenye couldn't talk or shout , what would he be doing on stage?
Sorry but when you get old and grumpy, comes a point when you gotta call a turd, a turd. [:I]

I'm not saying I could do it better. But then no ones paying me millions to droll out angry cheap ryhmes in monotone either.

If that were to happen, then of course I'd have to call it an authenic art form! [:D] [:D]



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« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 07:23:47 PM by Bill »
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Offline bno

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« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2007, 10:44:02 AM »
What did this event accomplish?  Were they collecting money, and if so, for what purpose?  

I think a more talented Hip Hop vocalist could have made the Message in a Bottle thing work.  It must have been a different pocket than the kid was used to and he just couldn't find the groove or pitch.  Eminem may have been able to make it work.  It needed a more understated and intellegent rap/poem instead of the incessant barking.  The kid had a chance to be the "Message in the Bottle" and just blew it.  Clever idea poorly executed.  John Mayer's interpretation of Andy's guitar riff didn't work for me, either.  It was too legato didn't have the dymanics and space that Andy imparts on it. Mayer pretty much dominated the background instead of blending.  Maybe it was his tone.  

There is a fairly clear generational divide on the Rap/HipHop topic.  I think its similar to the Swing v. Rock & Roll dialog from 40 years ago.  If your starting premise is that all popular music is for the lowest common denominator and is written by people who can't write, played by people who can't play and sung by people who can't sing, then it all s_cks/is great and what's the point in discussing it?  The irony is that sometimes the least talented technically can make the most compelling statement artistically and vice versa.  Go figure.

C'mon Bob - Steely Dan wasn't THAT bad - just because they brought us "Smooth Jazz" and made it possible for wimpy pseudo jazz musicians to make money and score chicks doesn't make them evil.  They were just different - "rock" music with unusual chord voicings, nonsensical babble and no passion.  Miles Davis bears most of the blame.  Without Miles there wouldn't have been fusion and everything that came from that school of musicians.  

By the way, did anyone spot a Parker anywhere during the concerts?
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