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Author Topic: Parker In new aker****e video  (Read 6755 times)

Offline Bill

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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2007, 10:46:43 PM »
That went from being artistic to being creepy.

I am sure that was the desired effect.

Shock art only takes you so far.

The double bass drum pedal (featured in music above)is all the rage right now.

I had to get my 15yo son one since the movie " The 300 " came out and had that suicide battle finale with music from " Lamb Of God".

Although I do see some artistic merrit to screamo / Lamb Of God type stuff, I sure wouldn't elect to listen to it for long. Maybe just next time I go into suicidal battle against the Persian army. Meanwhile I am just glad I could watch this from a distance in the safety of my own home. I would hate to be at one of these live concerts.

It kills me when one of these guys with spiked hair, total body tatoos, white face powder and black mascara and safty pins through the eyebrows walks out in public and asks rhetorically, "what is everybody looking at me for?"  I am sure many of thse guys are nice guys. So whats the point? Look like a demon so they can tell everyone that you pegged them wrong, they are really deep down nice guys? Uh Ok.

What scares me is my son wants to go to the next Lamb Of God concert here. I won't let him. He thinks I am unreasonable. I don't think so.
Its fine for everyone to express themselves. Its also fine to stand up and say "I think that goes over the line".

Vick, the football star, in tortouring animals, goes over the line. It starts with someone gloryfying it as art or sport. Tying up women and pretending to sley them,as portrayed at the end of this video, goes over the line. It might work for a horror film, but not for fun or sensual entertainment. We are one hair away from cruelty and barbarianism as it is. We could regress back there very quickly. All of us. Lets choose to try not to. [}:)]

I think when you grow up insulated without seeing death and severe animal type hardship, its easy to be curious about this type of thing. Once you have seen it for real, you never really want to go back there again. Or if you do, you are a ruined human being. [}:)] [}:)]


Actually, Alex(908) said it all much more succenctly. Please excuse my ramble (again).


" I just don't get all this satanist nihilistic BS. It is one thing not to believe in god but another all together not to believe in being a decent human being. Seems decency isn't a virtue anymore."

=Alex


Perfectly stated.



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« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 11:05:47 PM by Bill »
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Offline loumt123

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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2007, 12:00:02 AM »
I don't see how dog fights have anything to do with art in any way, shape or form.

    It's a music video....it's visual so personally I don't see the difference between a music video and a video. We may be a hair away from barbarianism but I highly doubt it's from music videos such as these. I think the least of our worries concerning cruelty, barbarianism, and violence involve music or music videos with darker themes. I don't even see the basis or grounds for a claim such as that. Perhaps it's worth investigating the true causes of violence and the indirect support for satanism in the world, instead of inferring a music video supports it. Try extremist religion, unemployment, poverty, corrupt government, WEAPONS, the social and economic class divides, broken homes, intolerance, and ignorance as just a few of the less visually offending, but much larger cause of violence and cruelty in the world. To say a music video supports it, is in my opinion, ignorant and ludicrous.

just my 2 cents.

 

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Offline Paul Marossy

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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2007, 08:08:34 AM »
The point that I was making is that you are not getting your point across if no one can understand you, that's all. I don't feel that it's very artistic, either, but that's only my opinion. [8D]

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Offline Bill

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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2007, 08:53:24 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy

quote:
Seems decency isn't a virtue anymore.


I've noticed that it hasn't been for a while. [V]

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Never has been. We've always had to try hard to work on it.

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Offline Bill

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« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2007, 12:03:50 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

I don't see how dog fights have anything to do with art in any way, shape or form.



Sorry Lou, I ramble a good bit. Watch the news today and look around this guys link to see where I was coming from.

http://www.dmx-official.com/

   

It's a music video....it's visual so personally I don't see the difference between a music video and a video.

Well one difference is context. In the music video there is no other background story or context to explain whats going on other than whats in the video itself. So what do I see here? I see a sexy rendition of a human sacrifice. Its artsy. Its pretty.Its erotic.  Its glamorously portrayed. Just a little blood dripping in the beginning. I don't hear her aspirating on her blood or wretching in vain to draw her last bit of air. I don't see her bowels letting go as she hits the floor. I don't hear her mother and father scream in anguish. I don't see the potential of her life lost for our entertainment. It all looks pretty cool but a little eiry too. Could be a sexy Halloween video I guess. Looks guiltless, clean, and easy.

I am glad to hear you say there are numerous explanations of what this artform means and why it isn't bad in itself. I just didn't see them at the time. Most likely your heart is much purer than mine. I am glad for that. I pretty much took it at face value as a sexy human sacrifice for my entertainment and amusement because I had no other reference point to call on.


We may be a hair away from barbarianism but I highly doubt it's from music videos such as these. I think the least of our worries concerning cruelty, barbarianism, and violence involve music or music videos with darker themes. I don't even see the basis or grounds for a claim such as that. Perhaps it's worth investigating the true causes of violence and the indirect support for satanism in the world, instead of inferring a music video supports it. Try extremist religion, unemployment, poverty, corrupt government, WEAPONS, the social and economic class divides, broken homes, intolerance, and ignorance as just a few of the less visually offending, but much larger cause of violence and cruelty in the world.

I think you have made some good points here.


But I have to disagree with this one:

To say a music video supports it, is in my opinion, ignorant and ludicrous.


Contrary, I think the music/fasion /trend setting pop culture industry (they have all merged now) can be supportive, against, or neutral to many cultural issues. In fact , they always are. To say that a pop idle doesn't influence trends in their fans is silly in my opinion. They sometimes have as much behavior modificaction clout as a sacred clergyman might have on their flock. Many people are born to be influenced. They can kill as easy as anyone.

One of the best dog trainers I've heard of once said "You dont sometimes train your dog, you are always training your dog".

Maybe another way of putting it was the favorite quote by a very insightful fellow I know,  "Constant dripping hollows out a stone"


Sorry to ramble again but I just went throught his with my own teen age son and we haven't resolved much either.

Finally, I hope I don't insult you by saying perhaps our biggest difference in point of view is simply a matter of 30 years. I think I thought a lot like you do now back then. Don't get me wrong, I don't think age always nessassrily brings wisdom. But I do think the years can change ones point of view somewhat.(whether for the right or wrong). I would be interested to know what you thought in 30 years after you may have a couple of kids.

Human sacrifice predates or is at least simultaneous with the origins of religion itself. These guys aren't depicting anything new. They certainly aren't shocking to history. In that context, this is tame powderpuff hollywood stuff. But its not the direction I think we want society to go.

The drive for teenagers to push the limits of society and to define the border between social and antisocial is legendary and likly has been going on since the beginning. The responcibility for the 40 something year old to point out that boundary is a clishe.

The truth is, the teenager himself , in exploring those boundaries, must eventually pull himself back on his own volition or else he grows into adulthood as antisocial. Not a fun place to be as an adult. If you can scare yourself, that is a good thing. Hopefully you will scare yourself back before someone gets hurt and that, in essence, is always at the bottom of a fathers concern.

Sorry for the preaching, I can't help myself just as you can't.


just my 2 cents.





and just my noncents [:)]




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« Last Edit: August 25, 2007, 12:05:22 PM by Bill »
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Offline loumt123

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« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2007, 01:12:25 PM »
yea it's cool. to each his own you know
 

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Offline JSanta

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« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2007, 01:49:29 PM »
I guess I'm a bit weird when it comes to music.  I just made a mix cd to listen to in my car, and it is comprised of Indie Rocke like the song  "Breathe for me Now" by Wheat, Silverstein, Dido, Smashing Pumpkins, Counting Crows...etc.  You get the point I think.  I love when a singer can growl like Mikeal Akerfeld (sorry about butchering his name Kavan) or when they can sing like an Angel.  It keeps me going musically for some reason.


/jim
 

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Offline 908ssp

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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2007, 02:46:24 PM »
quote:
The truth is, the teenager himself , in exploring those boundaries, must eventually pull himself back on his own volition or else he grows into adulthood as antisocial. Not a fun place to be as an adult. If you can scare yourself, that is a good thing. Hopefully you will scare yourself back before someone gets hurt and that, in essence, is always at the bottom of a fathers concern.


Wow bill you said this great. It is the the mythical battle between good and evil. "With great power comes great responsibility" Peter Parkers uncle said that. "Luke take your fathers place by my side" emperor Darth Sideous. Harry made the choice, Frodo made the wrong choice at the end and only Golum's uncontrollable greed saved Frodo. But in all the great myths it is clear that good must win over over evil.

Alex

Alex

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Offline loumt123

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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2007, 04:11:17 PM »
With all due respect, Bill, I think it's a bit pretentious to assume exploration as a teenager leads to antisocial nature in adulthood. Is this what you are inferring? If so I'd like to see some research supporting your statement [;)]. First and foremost I'm interested to know where this notion came into play. I'm not quite sure how teenagers pusing boundaries has to do with the topic at hand. If you are in fact referring to me and my point of view, I regret to inform you I am not seeing how far the values of society can be pushed, nor am I trying to define any borders or limitations. I am simply being realistic. I personally do not have a faith that influences my opinion on what should be socially acceptable. My own personal dogmas do not have any bearing on an issue such as this. I am being rational and unbiased. The fact of the matter is the concept of good and evil and acceptable and unnacceptable is purely subjective. Because of this I think it is unfair to speculate forms of media are pushing society into an eternal, putrid, pit of filth. In fact, I cannot see the grounds one would have on which to assume so. On the other hand, however, evidence does suggest a plethora of other cause that could be pushing society down this road you speak of. It is my opinion these issues deserve a fair bit more attention than a lone music video.
 

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Offline JSanta

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« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2007, 04:19:48 PM »
Very well said Lou, and I couldn't have said it better myself.  We are both around the same age, so I would infer that we have similar idealisms when it comes to music like this and the implications it makes on society.  I personally don't believe listening to one kind of music (which was referred to as Satanic in a sense) makes a person more prone to anti-social behaviour.  You will hear me rolling down the road listening to Opeth as much as you Coldplay.  Pete Townsend said it well when he said that people will do stupid, disgraceful things regardless of what they are listening to.  That's human nature.  Anti-social behaviour existed long before "satanic" music and will continue to as long as people exist.  I on the other hand like to scream out of my car when driving down the road haha.


/jim
 

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Offline Bill

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« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2007, 06:12:45 PM »
Sorry Lou, I don't recall saying exploration as a teenager leads to antisocial behavior as an adult. In fact, exploration as a teenager is the norm. Pushing the boundaries of what is considered antisocial behavior is the cliche of the teenage years. Sometimes society is even  better off for it. Sometimes, probably not.

Even an old pretentious fart like me went through it. In fact adults continue to do so too, just generally not as frequently or ususally to the same extreme. The mid life crises is the second cliche,  
right? Been there too.

BTW, I hope I never quit some explorations and I am happy to have given up others. Of course all this dribble is just stage of life generalizations and may not be true in every case or for you.

Usually(not always) somewhere between teenage and early adult years  we learn self restraint. Otherwise the inability to forsee some consequences of some explorations will lead to antisocial behavior. The inability to impose limits on oneself in many "explorations" will too. Society tends to accept some of this pushing the boudaries of what is antisocial in the teenage years and generally accepts much less of it thereafter. Generally, parants of teens feel obligated to point out those boundaries to the constant annoyance of....well everyone. Sometimes, as I said above, those boundaries do change too. But if as an adult you find yourself outside those boundaries,where ever they land,  you are lkely in for a hard time.

I agree one doesn't need faith in a religion to have a sense of good and evil. But if one doesn't develope some sense of good and evil they very likly will result in antisocial behavior unless they are just really lucky or live on a desert island.

Finally, what the boundary is for antisocial behavior may seem purly subjective to you. But it is not subjective to society. Sometimes there is even good reasoning behind those boundaries that we might not see yet. Sometimes not.  But for better or worse, for good or evil, society sets real rules with real consequences. Thats pretty much why we have a society right?

Its not perfect, but in my opinion, it usually beats anarchy. At least I think ours usually does.

And yeah, I agree I sound pretentious. Sorry. I'll work on it. I would try to sound cool but  I don't know how and it really doesn't work for me anyway. And pretentious doesn't work either when you can't spell worth a toot.


cheers. really.


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« Last Edit: August 25, 2007, 06:24:45 PM by Bill »
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Offline loumt123

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« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2007, 06:59:51 PM »
It's not my intent to offend; I'd just like to see some scientific or sociological evidence that supports some of these theories and claims.
 

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Offline Bill

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« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2007, 07:24:23 PM »
Now thats an answer I really like.

Never an offense with that one. If anyone is ever offended by that responce--run! (or ignore them because they are not worth your time).

Let me know which theories or claims you want to start with and I'll do my best to see what I can come up with.

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Offline Detonator

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« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2007, 07:46:43 PM »
I would personally like to see statistics that show how this "new" indecent society of ours has effected crime rates in the western world.  Murder and rape statistics will do just fine.  To tell the truth, I'm quite shocked to see that many of you on this board are so closed minded.  There is historical evidence that older generations have been using the "hell in a handbasket" excuse throughout recorded history.  I have theories about why this is, but I'd prefer not to ruffle any feathers around here, so I won't state them. Unfortunately, this seems to be part of the life cycle of human consciousness.

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Offline Bill

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« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2007, 07:56:25 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Detonator

I would personally like to see statistics that show how this "new" indecent society of ours has effected crime rates in the western world.  Murder and rape statistics will do just fine.  To tell the truth, I'm quite shocked to see that many of you on this board are so closed minded.  There is historical evidence that older generations have been using the "hell in a handbasket" excuse throughout recorded history.  I have theories about why this is, but I'd prefer not to ruffle any feathers around here, so I won't state them. Unfortunately, this seems to be part of the life cycle of human consciousness.

98 Fly Classic (trans emerald green)
93 strat plus
05 Schecter tempest Custom
04 Takamine AN10
ENGL Powerball 100 head
Boogie Recto 4x12
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Lots of FX




Sorry, not sure what you are talking about with that one. Seems like a different topic to me. Sounds interesting. Good luck.

Custom '03 Gen1N/Gen2B Hardtail Artist; Custom '98 Neutered (trem blocked) DuncanModed Artist; Fly Deluxe 2000; Gibson ES137(4sale); 1974 K.Yari DY85; SchecterDisposable; Martin Backpacker/paddle combo;VoxAD30VT;SWR California Blonde(working again and sounding great)
A few Flys in my soup