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Author Topic: beginner vs. professional (a quote)  (Read 26288 times)

Offline Highlander

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)
« Reply #105 on: December 23, 2010, 03:44:10 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Notes_Norton

quote:
Originally posted by Highlander<...snip...>

For me, a Professional is somebody that records and performs their OWN music, not somebody elses.

I have done the cover thing, and its better than working a day job, but not by a ton.



I respectfully disagree twice.

A professional musician is one who gets paid to play music, and whether or not he/she is doing his/her own material has absolutely nothing to do with it. A musician does not have to be a songwriter.

I would definitely consider Yoyo Ma, Isaac Stern, Joshua Bell, all the members of the Cleveland Orchestra, Moscow Symphony, Budapest Philharmonic and all the other major symphony orchestras on the planet professionals, and I doubt they almost never (if ever) get to perform music they have written themselves.

Playing other people's material happens to be a lot of fun for many of us. I do a mix of other people's music done either as a cover, or my own way (sometimes radically different).

Personally, whenever I try to write an original song, it doesn't make the grade. A songwriter I am not.

However, I am a good sight-reader, an expressive musician, play 7 different instruments, and I am excellent improvisational musician and absolutely love to jam an ad-lib solo, made up on the spot to somebody else's music.

Being a professional musician simply is one who makes his/her living doing so.

Being a musician involves a large number of skills, and we all have different levels of them, they include but are not limited to: sight-reading, on-sight transposition, improvisation, the ability to play in tune, the ability to play in an ensemble, the ability to play expressively, the ability to control one or more musical instruments, etc.

I once saw a documentary with Andre Previn and Itzhak Perlman. Itzhak wanted to play jazz but could not improvise. Andre tried to give him a crash course in improvisation, but Itzhak did not get it, so Andre wrote out a "Jazz" solo for Itzhak to read.

So here is his, one of the world's greatest violinists and conductors, has made more money playing music than I will ever see, can't improvise a note, and plays nothing but cover songs, mostly written by old dead white people. I'd say he was a professional, and I'd like to be doing the same thing myself.

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Bob "Notes" Norton

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Its like somebody that writes books, and people that read them...Itzhak cant write but reads REAL WELL!!

For me, copying other people; whether from the 80's or the 1600's, is still not art or creativity.

I am not trying to knock cover bands, I have done it and it beats being an accountant or whatever and pays some of the bills. Its not easy doing originals and its not supposed to be easy.

I did not consider myself a "Pro" when I was playing covers, but would not care if other people do.
 

beginner vs. professional (a quote)

Offline prjacobs

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)
« Reply #106 on: December 24, 2010, 08:26:54 AM »
Playing music and writing music are 2 very different animals. When I go into the studio with, let's say, difficult horn parts and the players pretty much instantly read it and absolutely kill it with great feel, these are pros.
I've worked with many world class musicians over the years and almost none of them write, but they play amazingly well. I feel so privileged that I can write stuff and have it realized by people with skills that would blow your mind. The bass player on my show is Schuyler Deale. Over the past 10 years, not a session goes by when I don't think..."Holy cr*p! This guy just played something amazing." That is a pro.
 

beginner vs. professional (a quote)

Offline Notes_Norton

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)
« Reply #107 on: December 24, 2010, 05:30:26 PM »
Someone who makes a living writing music is a professional songwriter.

Someone who makes a living playing music is a professional musician.

A person can be both.

Notes

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Bob "Notes" Norton

Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com aftermarket styles for Band-in-a-Box and Microsoft Songsmith

The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com the best duo in South FLorida
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Bob "Notes" Norton

Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com aftermarket styles for Band-in-a-Box and Microsoft Songsmith

The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com the best duo in South FLorida

beginner vs. professional (a quote)

Offline jefsummers

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)
« Reply #108 on: December 24, 2010, 10:52:58 PM »
How you interpret the music and make it your own also can make you a professional. Andy Williams did not write much of any of the music he sang, but was clearly a professional. Was Johnny Cash less of a professional when he covered NIN with Hurt?

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)

Offline prjacobs

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)
« Reply #109 on: December 25, 2010, 08:03:02 AM »
In the spirit of Christmas morning, which has a special meaning for jewish people like me:), I'd like to remind us all, myself included, that it's our love of music and our continual immersion in it that provides unending joy, continual growth and learning, deepest emotion and just good clean fun. Now - Time to break out some cheesy Christmas music......
 

beginner vs. professional (a quote)

Offline Notes_Norton

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)
« Reply #110 on: December 25, 2010, 09:00:10 AM »
BTW prjacobs, the two most famous Christmas songs, "White Christmas" and "The Christmas Song" were written by Jewish people.

Ah, this is the end of the cheesy Christmas music season for us.

Actually I like Christmas Music better than St. Patrick's Day music for one reason. The Christmas songs we get to play for a month, so I get more use out of the time it took to learn them and create my own backing tracks. St. Patty Day music I only get to play for two or three days.

I don't mind playing the cheesy songs, as long as the audience is having fun with them it's OK with me. After all, having fun is what my profession is all about.

Come to think of it, the only US national holiday that doesn't have at least one "official" song is Labor Day (there must be a hidden message in there somewhere). There is a golden opportunity for a talented songwriter.

Notes

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Bob "Notes" Norton

Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com aftermarket styles for Band-in-a-Box and Microsoft Songsmith

The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com the best duo in South FLorida
------------------

Bob "Notes" Norton

Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com aftermarket styles for Band-in-a-Box and Microsoft Songsmith

The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com the best duo in South FLorida

beginner vs. professional (a quote)

Offline prjacobs

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)
« Reply #111 on: December 25, 2010, 09:32:06 AM »
Bob, I'm thrilled to say that I wrote a song that Mel Tormé sang. (Not a Christmas song, though:)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQU-eOvqRAY

The lyrics were written by my lovely wife, Sarah Durkee. This was an assignment from Sesame Street to write a song about a kid learning how to use a swing. It seemed like a no brainer to write a "swing" song. And when we found out that Mel Tormé was singing it, we couldn't believe our great fortune.
Also, the amazing Mike Renzi on piano! Mike played with Mel Tormé and did the arrangement.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 09:40:59 AM by prjacobs »
 

beginner vs. professional (a quote)

Offline bno

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)
« Reply #112 on: December 25, 2010, 11:24:17 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by Notes_NortonCome to think of it, the only US national holiday that doesn't have at least one "official" song is Labor Day (there must be a hidden message in there somewhere). There is a golden opportunity for a talented songwriter.

c'mon - here's your Labor Day set:

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/top-10-labor-day-songs-0903/

Okay, Randy Bachman was a Canadian, and it's not "official" but still....

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)

Offline bno

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)
« Reply #113 on: December 25, 2010, 11:28:07 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQU-eOvqRAY
Wow.
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beginner vs. professional (a quote)

Offline lucgravely

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)
« Reply #114 on: December 25, 2010, 05:55:14 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by jefsummers

How you interpret the music and make it your own also can make you a professional. Andy Williams did not write much of any of the music he sang, but was clearly a professional. Was Johnny Cash less of a professional when he covered NIN with Hurt?



Cash was both a professional and an artist when he covered HURT. That song conveyed exactly how he felt and what he needed to say. If he had covered it verbatim it he still would have been a professional, but the artistic part would have been negate. That is one of the best covers of all times. Period.

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)

Offline Notes_Norton

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)
« Reply #115 on: December 26, 2010, 04:01:47 PM »
bno, yes workers songs, but not specifically written for the Labor Day holiday.

Notes

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Bob "Notes" Norton

Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com aftermarket styles for Band-in-a-Box and Microsoft Songsmith

The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com the best duo in South FLorida
------------------

Bob "Notes" Norton

Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com aftermarket styles for Band-in-a-Box and Microsoft Songsmith

The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com the best duo in South FLorida

beginner vs. professional (a quote)

Offline ZemanG2

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beginner vs. professional (a quote)
« Reply #116 on: November 06, 2011, 01:55:46 AM »
What a good night of reading! My two cents on this old post. It would seems that many have hit pro and entertainer as the same. In truth I guess they are. Once you make that hit then you gotta start performing that. While at the same time a Pro is someone who does what they do for a living. It actually doesn't mean they are better per se, just took a different path. I had two guys in college one guys band toured each summer and by graduation he got a real job. Another guy practiced ALL the time and his real job is touring month in and month out around his part time job. I used to practice 8 hours a day, then we had a kid and it was more like 10 hours. For 4 years my job was to play. And I can tell you there were MANY times Friday, Saturday Sunday I didn't want to play at all. But stepped on stage, plugged in, and the volts kicked in and so did I. I loved playing loved it all, and played each song as if I had nothing else to play or sing. I guess the difference is that it is a job.

Now I'm an amateur now I guess. Still practice like crazy, but not looking to play no gigs or anything. I just want to pursue  a different style of play and learn and grow. My aunt used to live by SRV in Austin and she said all's he did was practice, or played or whatever, I am totally not him. Slash in an interview said the first and last thing he did everyday was pick up his Les Paul and play. So even Pro's are still amateurs in their mind......

Now on to pitch. I think it can be learned or trained. But the earlier you start in music the better chance you have later on. I HATE guitars because they never stay in tune. One reason I love my Parkers. But I tune and retune and retune and retune and retune when I practice. One cent off is usually enough to drive me insane. I tune to 439 when I play live, I know its odd. But I find that if there is an acoustic piano it keeps them closer in tune and there is always the bass player who muddles sound up, and I find that there is better cohesion that way. But I'm odd like that every guitar I have is tuned differently, does anyone else do that?

But I have found that guys who are musically gifted and have had some training up until their teens make better musicians. And are usually pro's, like U2, etc. My four year old can keep a beat and can tell the difference between A and C. I can't tell if she is gifted or not, but she is just like me, music is always in the house. From classical, jazz, reggae, rock, techno, hip hop, but sadly no show tunes, my mother killed me with those. And not to mention all those piano lessons. But they paid off, at 30 I remembered all that my mom forced me to learn and had the joy of writing music out for those who couldn't play by ear. But in any case music is a learned trait, I think those that come by it naturally just learned it much earlier than others. I picked up the guitar at 10am and by 4pm I could play all the chords and a few songs. I really think it was just because music came early to me. So if you want your kids to rock teach em young!

Anyways all that to say is I'm tired and I hope I made some sense.

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