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Author Topic: Instrumental Songwriting Help!  (Read 9863 times)

Offline mojotron

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Instrumental Songwriting Help!
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2008, 01:14:31 PM »
There is simply no one way to go about being a musician. I think that some people assume that unless all of your income comes from your musical skill you aren’t a 'real' musician.

In reality, there's a pretty wide spectrum – with a vast majority of skill/life-choices somewhere in the middle.
 

Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline Paul Marossy

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Instrumental Songwriting Help!
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2008, 02:27:49 PM »
It's great teaching guitar if you have the students to keep you booked all the time. I still do better at my engineering job - it's a six figure package deal.

None of my comments were directed at anyone here, BTW. I chose my own path to take, just like everyone else. [;)]

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Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline Picks

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Instrumental Songwriting Help!
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2008, 05:18:05 AM »
Well you miss my point here. First, your friend who bought the corvette using a guitar, is a 'teacher'.

Those that can, do. Those that can't teach.

The question was about how to create music that is satisfying to a critical ear that is sploit from listening to guys who do nothing but stay in the zone by continual practise routine, recording and gigging. This makes a dramatic difference on the nature of music this person makes compared to the 9-5er, guitar instructor or not, who squeezes in some guitar time a couple hours a day.

It's dead simple. You are what you is.

Your art will be a reflection of your life. Any time you spend teaching kids how to play a C major chord, thats all you doing.

Does your friend have a dental plan?
quote:
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

Sorry, but I have to completely disagree with this. I'm not sure if it's their business practices or what, but theres no reason a musician can't make a solid living. My teacher isn't a famous professional, but with hard work and a solid plan music helped him buy a corvette. In fact, he has a habit of saying "Hey, Louie you like this, guitar bought this yea".

    My point is I really don't think it's that hard to make a living off of music. I think if you start building your business from the ground up (phasing in students aside from your "real" job) you're making a MINIMUM of 30 an hour (the lowest price for lessons I've seen were 60 a month, 15 dollars for 1 half hour lesson, 4 lessons a month). On top of this you can gig, and I bet you love your job [:D]. I think it's very plausible to make a solid living off of guitar, so I take offense to saying "Real" musicians scrape by. Smart musicians take their ideas and turn it into a business.

 

Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline Picks

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Instrumental Songwriting Help!
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2008, 05:51:46 AM »
Well Simon, I started my post with an apology because I expected that reaction. Try that idea this way: You love Martone, what makes the difference between you and him. Answer that question and you'll find what you need. No, it isn't Berklee.[:D]

Maybe what you seek is more about surrender than aquisition. I'll give you that one as a hint, and it won't cost you a cent.

Not being facetious, just completely understanding and objectively realistic.

Lastly, your statement below is a curious one. The better you play the more money you make? I wonder if Holdsworth or Shawn Lane would have shared that opinion? Tlk about a flawed belief!

Hell, I;d be a billionaire! [:D]

Relax dude, I'm on your side.


quote:
Originally posted by simonlock

The harder you work and the better you play the more money you'll make. Your post doesn't really serve any purpose except to reveal your own flawed values. I don't need your beliefs thanks.

Simon
Vancouver,BC
2000 Fly Supreme
1998 Fly Supreme w/Jerome Little knobs
1999 Fly Artist w/Ken Parker sig and Jerome Little knobs
2006 Fly Nylon w/Jerome Little knobs
2002 Fly Classic Hardtail
2006 Fly Classic
2006 Fly Mojo
1999 Fly Deluxe w/Gen1s
2001 MidiFly


« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 05:56:18 AM by Picks »
 

Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline loumt123

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« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2008, 06:13:42 AM »

"Those that can, do. Those that can't teach."

Those who can't do either troll message boards.


My teacher plays, teaches, and is endorsed by a few companies, so you best watch who you talk trash on because you don't know what you're talking about, bud.

 To me it sounds like you don't have a clue as to what you are preaching. I'm done here.
 

Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline Bill

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Instrumental Songwriting Help!
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2008, 06:46:26 AM »
I think there are some great tips on this thread so I hate to close it out with the usual "pissing contest".

BTW, almost all of the great masters in any field- Art, Science, Sports-whatever,  were also great teachers. The ones that weren't were usually neurotic, psychotic, or idiot savants.

Lets look at this statement for a second:

"It's dead simple. You are what you is.
Your art will be a reflection of your life. Any time you spend teaching kids how to play a C major chord, thats all you doing."


Does that life assessment truly reflect what kind of musician you are ? Or does it reflect what type of human being you are ?

I dont mean to Picks on anyone. In younger years, I have said this kind of bravado generalization before and I hope no one took me as serious as I am being now.

It is often said that you don't truly understand something until you figure out how to explain it successfully to someone else. Very often I have thought I knew all about something until I tried to explain it to a colleague. Then in doing so I would look at the subject at a different angle and appreciaate an aspect of the subject I hadn't realized before. In short, we were actually both learning.

I know very well where the phrase "those who cant do, teach" comes from. Sadly it has its relevance at times. But like any popular stereotype it is not true the vast majority of the time.

A more correct way to view it: Doing is accomplishing for yourself:Teaching is helping others accomplish for themselves.

What I like about this forum? Its mostly about teaching. If I want to hear somebodys guitar solo I would hang out surfing utube. I come here to learn and share (rarley). Or at least to share a laugh occasionally. [:)]





A few Flys in my soup
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 07:22:21 AM by Bill »
A few Flys in my soup

Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline Paul Marossy

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Instrumental Songwriting Help!
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2008, 09:37:12 AM »
I'm disappointed to see these kinds of reactions happening in this thread.

Just because you have a teaching job doesn't mean that you have "arrived". It it doesn't mean that you are a "has been" or someone who "missed the target", either. It's all about what you choose and what you can live with. Teaching isn't all bad, at least your doing something positive with your guitar playing. I mean this whole thing is like saying you're only a physicist because you can't be an astronaut. Both are smart people with valid jobs. And so it is with teaching guitar. Even the big name players are sometimes taking lessons from someone else. So what?!

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« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 09:37:54 AM by Paul Marossy »

Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline bno

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« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2008, 10:58:39 AM »
Let's see;  Bach, teacher.  Mozart, teacher.  Beehthoven, teacher.  Stockhausen, teacher.  Schoenberg, teacher.  Nearly every orchestral musician in every major opera or orchestra, teachers.  

Success can be fairly random and fickle and in some measure largely a function of social engineering and issues that go beyond simple talent.  Charisma, an empresario relationship, market timing, psychological stamiina.  We all know about great artists who struggled in poverty and lived in relative obscurity juxtaposed with vacuous entertainers who lolled in wealth and luxury.

I would prefer the saying to be:

Those who don't know what they're doing, can't teach.

Simon, it's more than laudable that you have been able to transition yourself into full time musician - maybe you'll be one of the lucky guys who plays music for a living and works on cars for fun.  Follow your muse.  Make what compromises you are comfortable with, pay what dues you are willing to pay.  Teaching is a noble profession.  Anyone who trashes teaching hasn't had a good teacher.  (Man, I'd love to hear what Martone thinks of all of this - but he's too busy, teaching, composing and touring.)

The one thing that kills more careers than anything else is poor business sense.  So, it's worth it to gain an understanding of how to create and manage your business affairs.  Particularly as you become successful.  Four lads from Liverpool lost hundreds of millions because they didn't have a clue about what was going on and the survivors still don't own the right to determine what happens with their music.  

If no one thought big, nothing would get done.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 11:03:47 AM by bno »
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Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline simonlock

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« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2008, 11:26:19 AM »
I'm done with this thread. This guy has really turned me off. I hope I never meet you buddy,

Simon
Vancouver,BC
2000 Fly Supreme
1998 Fly Supreme w/Jerome Little knobs
1999 Fly Artist w/Ken Parker sig and Jerome Little knobs
2006 Fly Nylon w/Jerome Little knobs
2002 Fly Classic Hardtail
2006 Fly Classic
2006 Fly Mojo
1999 Fly Deluxe w/Gen1s
2001 MidiFly
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 11:27:51 AM by simonlock »
 

Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline Paul Marossy

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Instrumental Songwriting Help!
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2008, 11:30:10 AM »
quote:
Those who don't know what they're doing, can't teach.


+1. You can't teach what you don't know. [^]

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Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline loumt123

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« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2008, 11:30:21 AM »
I just think it's incredibly rude to come on here and troll. Picks, you don't know my teacher and you don't know simon. Where do you get off saying some of what you said? Either you're 14, or you haven't learned manners yet. I can respect someone's opinion, but your harsh generalizations and statements lack tact.

 This guy just sounds like another self indulgent shred head.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 11:32:18 AM by loumt123 »
 

Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline simonlock

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« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2008, 12:09:58 PM »
The sad thing is Lou is that I think he genuinely thinks that his input is helpful. Yes I'm offended but I also recognize it for what it is. There is enough truth in what he's saying that he has accepted it as truth. I haven't.

I started this thread because most of this forum is happy to contribute positive support for one another. I'm not the only one benefitting from this thread(or was until it got trashed).

The statement "those who can blah blah blah" This is a CLASSIC limiting belief!!!

Shawn Lane and holdsworth huh? Hmmm Definately can't bash the playing. But I think they both got what they wanted as musicians. Allan and Shawn don't strike me as guys that wanted to be in the spotlight all the time. They were very guarded individuals. I've never seen Holdsworth play because he's not incredibly driven to work that hard.

Daniel Adair works his ass off and he got to be so valuable that Nickelback could not stand to be without him. He was hired because of his belief system not just his drumming,

A billionaire huh? Well you must be a wonderful player but you'll have to dump some of these "truths" if you're ever going to succeed. Tony Robbins the self help success guru made up a title for people that come along in your life to trash your dreams and "help" you with information that prooves that you'll fail. He calls them "dream stealers".

I am furious about this intrusion and feel like smashing something right now but I'm trying to write this with as much kindness as possible. Seriously dude I'm giving up 70k a year to give this everything I've got. I don't need someone that works in a music store telling me what I can't do. I grew up in a family that liked to trash dreams like you Picks so I got pretty good at it. I can trash yours too if you like. Tell us your dreams.

Simon
Vancouver,BC
2000 Fly Supreme
1998 Fly Supreme w/Jerome Little knobs
1999 Fly Artist w/Ken Parker sig and Jerome Little knobs
2006 Fly Nylon w/Jerome Little knobs
2002 Fly Classic Hardtail
2006 Fly Classic
2006 Fly Mojo
1999 Fly Deluxe w/Gen1s
2001 MidiFly
 

Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline Picks

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Instrumental Songwriting Help!
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2008, 03:09:59 PM »
It's unfortunate I'm percieved the way I have been, as delicate as I tried to imply, I still ruffled some feathers. I am sorry.

Denial of truth, simple truths, can sometimes be hard to face and sadly, there are situations in this world right now much more challenging than how to compose meaningful 'guitarw**k' that are the result of this tendency or trait. I fight against the same predisposition myself.

The ego in music can serve to push or stifle. A bruised ego, such as the musician who thinks he has been slighted is common. That is a signifier of confidence and a representation of 'state' or level. A meglomaniac like Malmsteen, a perpetual self doubter like Holdsworth. The ego in the musician, in diatmetric opposition.
I'll leave that at that.

I offered a very clear, objective and obvious truth, it touched a nerve and there you go. Use your illusion, it is just more comfortable.

The knee jerk replies here are the ones that carry venom, not mine.
I have no anger and didn't wish to anger anyone.

I did not attack or say anything untoward, I made a statement about the difference between one who works in theory or hypotheticals and one who is in realtime practise of that lifestyle and in the 'fight' as it were.

Teaching guitar is a noble responsibility in today's world. With the internet, Playstations all that can distract young minds, to get a kid playing a guitar amidst that is serious obligation. Most kids would rather play Guitar Hero. But I digress...

I'm off to teach myself, so you see, I emphasize and represent what I advocate.

Just curious simon. Do you play in any bands? Do you play live or just jam in your studio/bedroom? This makes a huge difference with regards to your personal relationship with music.

I've seen your youtube vids simon, you sound good to me. You're no Martone by any stretch, but you can neuro-muscularly twitch through scales and you can jam along to a backing tracks comfortably. Enjoy!!! We can't all be Martones! Keep taking those lessons and I'm sure some great things will rub off. Look at how Keston benefited from Martone's tutelage! Shredder!

I know Dave and Daniel quite well, on both a musical and beer level.

And, you have met me!

All the best, I'll leave this as you wish and not darken your ambitions any further!


quote:
Originally posted by simonlock

The sad thing is Lou is that I think he genuinely thinks that his input is helpful. Yes I'm offended but I also recognize it for what it is. There is enough truth in what he's saying that he has accepted it as truth. I haven't.

I started this thread because most of this forum is happy to contribute positive support for one another. I'm not the only one benefitting from this thread(or was until it got trashed).

The statement "those who can blah blah blah" This is a CLASSIC limiting belief!!!

Shawn Lane and holdsworth huh? Hmmm Definately can't bash the playing. But I think they both got what they wanted as musicians. Allan and Shawn don't strike me as guys that wanted to be in the spotlight all the time. They were very guarded individuals. I've never seen Holdsworth play because he's not incredibly driven to work that hard.

Daniel Adair works his ass off and he got to be so valuable that Nickelback could not stand to be without him. He was hired because of his belief system not just his drumming,

A billionaire huh? Well you must be a wonderful player but you'll have to dump some of these "truths" if you're ever going to succeed. Tony Robbins the self help success guru made up a title for people that come along in your life to trash your dreams and "help" you with information that prooves that you'll fail. He calls them "dream stealers".

I am furious about this intrusion and feel like smashing something right now but I'm trying to write this with as much kindness as possible. Seriously dude I'm giving up 70k a year to give this everything I've got. I don't need someone that works in a music store telling me what I can't do. I grew up in a family that liked to trash dreams like you Picks so I got pretty good at it. I can trash yours too if you like. Tell us your dreams.

Simon
Vancouver,BC
2000 Fly Supreme
1998 Fly Supreme w/Jerome Little knobs
1999 Fly Artist w/Ken Parker sig and Jerome Little knobs
2006 Fly Nylon w/Jerome Little knobs
2002 Fly Classic Hardtail
2006 Fly Classic
2006 Fly Mojo
1999 Fly Deluxe w/Gen1s
2001 MidiFly


« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 03:19:40 PM by Picks »
 

Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline simonlock

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« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2008, 05:31:36 PM »
Yes there are some truths that are hard for me. I have a lot to learn and was gleaming what I can from this thread. I'm sorry I let anger color my statements but like you said I was ruffled. Performance and writing are my next big steps and I think once I can accomplish something in those areas I can take my playing to the next level.  You're absolutely right about survival making you a better player and that's why I dove in and abandoned my safety nets because this is my time to give it a shot.

We're all just here to learn and make each others lives a little fuller. Hopefully in a few years I'll have stretched a little closer to Martone. I put in a lot of work and it's starting to pay off.

When and where did we meet picks?

Simon
Vancouver,BC
2000 Fly Supreme
1998 Fly Supreme w/Jerome Little knobs
1999 Fly Artist w/Ken Parker sig and Jerome Little knobs
2006 Fly Nylon w/Jerome Little knobs
2002 Fly Classic Hardtail
2006 Fly Classic
2006 Fly Mojo
1999 Fly Deluxe w/Gen1s
2001 MidiFly
 

Instrumental Songwriting Help!

Offline loumt123

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« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2008, 07:15:58 PM »
I don't care how good anyone is.... I don't need to be lectured on what a "real" musician is. This financially challenged musician argument is old. If you're not trying to make it as a full blown rockstar I think one can do fairly well having a career in music. good day.