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Author Topic: Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?  (Read 6227 times)

Offline mojotron

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2008, 12:39:49 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by simonlock

We have some pastors and many church going folk here and I have a question about pride. Being a pagan/bhudist I haven't had many Christian teachings. My understanding of pride was that it was a good thing. Taking pride in your work and yourself I've always thought of as a strength. I've seen lately a few references to it being a sin or something of a weakness. Am I way off here?
...


From my perspective, this gets kind of deep – I’ll explain this as a matter of perspective: This post is about what I believe to be the truth about the Christian faith – you may have other beliefs – that’s fine with me: I’m just saying that this is the truth as I have known it in my 4+ decades of living - full of doing all the wrong things, plenty of 'sin', but finally IMO figuring it out and living to tell the tale. Please don’t read this if you are easily offended by Christians.

IMO - Christianity is not really about doing ‘good’ or doing the ‘right’ things – rather it is about man’s perspective with respect to God and a person’s perspective to other people (as said above in other posts). Jesus said it plainly as ‘love God first and foremost and love others around you as yourself’. Also, IMO, there are obvious sins – but God directs each person who has faith in Jesus as to what is sin and gives them the spiritual ability to overcome sin. Overcoming sin on our own power is a sin in itself.

How ‘pride’ fits into this is - IMO – with respect to Christianity: A person that is working to have people admire them, or ‘worship’ them instead of God, is not loving God first and is not doing the will of God…. There are a lot of things about human nature that leads people to not doing the will of God – aka doing sin. Even the pursuit of being a good person by a person’s own will/power so that others will think they are great for being a good person… is pride and a sin. What I believe Jesus said is that only His sacrifice can cover all of the sin in a person’s life if that person seeks forgiveness (receiving eternal life in the process of seeking forgiveness). The only path to live without sinning is to seek His forgiveness, follow God’s will, change their perspective to put God first, and to do the things that God leads them to do through God’s spiritual power living in them.

No one will ever live a sinless life, even with God’s help – any person will never be perfect in this life from God’s perspective, but the best man can do is to turn back to God when they fail, and keep going down the path that God has for them.

But, pride is a clumsy word because it means so many different things. Appreciation for your own accomplishments/abilities is a great thing to have – call it pride without arrogance. I guess I would say it more like ‘arrogance’ (aka pride as well), seeking to have others admire you, as being better than they are…, is not a good thing - call it pride with arrogance. The point is that Christianity is not about doing right or ‘being good’ – I believe that those are side effects of one’s faith and the will to follow Christ and do His will.

I would have issues with people running around saying they are Christians and that people needed to do this or that on their own power, in order to not ‘sin’ and to be right/justified with God. I believe that what the Bible says, clearly, is that the only thing a person does - that matters at all in the end - is what God does through those that love/follow Him – with the motivation to love God first and foremost. It’s a rather fortunate thing for me that God loves my guitar playing – even if no one else does: I have a great deal of pride in how well I play – or don’t play – but my motivation in playing guitar is to create art that expresses how I feel – not to have people look at me as being anything other than another person God has made.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 12:41:12 PM by mojotron »
 

Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline simonlock

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2008, 12:45:33 PM »
You are absolutely right Dave. Thanks for pointing this out before it got nasty.

Yeah I guess getting religious was wrong and it totally slipped my mind. I just wanted to learn something from those that have knowledge I don't. I looked to those with a christian background because I knew they would have knowledge I was seeking.

Please don't let this get into what's best or right or "all knowing" I think any reference to anything political or religious should END HERE.

All I wanted to know is how much my pride is affecting my values and growth as a player and to gleam insight into why I feel so held back by myself.

Simon
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« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 12:50:14 PM by simonlock »
 

Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline kurrykid

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2008, 01:12:49 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by rt0412
By the way, I'm a Catholic but I don't claim that the Christian God is superior to all. Believing that there is only one God is sufficient enough for me; it really implies a lot of things.

Really...a Catholic that that doesn't believe that God is superior to all?  That is very revealing...I might have been a little less willing to admit something like that!  Wow, what are we coming to when someone claims they are of a religion and then backs it up by saying that they don't believe in the fundementals of that religion.  My best advise is: if anyone offers you some Kool-aid, don't drink it!

Also, a Catholic quoting and liking the advise of Buddha...again, Wow!

Maybe while you are wondering around these multiple paths in life and believing whatever you feel like and what makes you feel good, you could look up the word "Faith" and maybe (but I doubt it), you would see how I know the Word of God is indeed, the Word of God.

How about something that has real meaning for your day...quotes from the only true God:  James 1:6 - 8:

"But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does."

Somehow I thought about this scripture as you were going from thought to thought (being "tossed by the wind").

One thing I know for sure is, you need to figure it before long because, once you expire the option of choosing expires as well.

Have a nice day...

Dave

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline Paul Marossy

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2008, 01:19:18 PM »
I am a Christian, too, but I will stay out of the debating about pride from a biblical perpective as there is enough of that going on already. [;)]

But, I will say that I know from personal experience that many negative things can happen when you are too proud and puffed up in your own mind. People have a tendency to create their own problems and those problems many times stem from pride because they think they know everything and are above asking for counsel or don't want to appear foolish or ignorant, and then the consequences of their bad/poor decisions comes back around to bite a chunk out of their gluttous maximus. Been there, done all of those.

So, you can practice humility in basically one of two ways:
1. Voluntary humility
2. Involuntary humility
Number one is always the less painful one to endure.

I like how jamrcat put it. Pride in itself is not evil, just like money isn't (Jesus said that the love of money is the root of all evil, not money itself). But it can be a positive motivation or a negative one. We make choice. As an example, I take pride in my abilities at work where I routinely to do things that seem impossible to most people, but I always figure out a way around the obstacles presented to me. Now, where the choice comes in is how I think of myself. I can look at my life realistically, soberly, and know that I am good at something but not let it go to my head or I could think that I am God's gift to the HVAC design world and become the biggest self centered jerk you ever met. It can go both ways. But I have to constantly make the choice about which road I want to travel.





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« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 01:20:53 PM by Paul Marossy »

Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline simonlock

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2008, 01:22:14 PM »
You guys know this is going to go absolutely nowhere right?

Simon
Vancouver,BC
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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline simonlock

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2008, 02:00:16 PM »
it's simple just stop.

Simon
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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline kurrykid

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2008, 02:03:13 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by rt0412God is not like an egoistic human being who needs to be superior to all. That's the problem with religion - "My god is superior to your god. Period". The Muslim Extremist claims the same thing with much more fervor that you can muster. That's why they want the whole world to be converted to their own interpretation of the Muslim religion. You're very close to being a Christian Extremist. Better reread what Jesus preached.

I'm a Catholic by birth... I refused to be branded a Catholic, a Christian, a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Hindu, a whatever. I am.

And yeah, Kool-Aid is bad for your health, it's all sugar - empty calories. Do refuse it, that's good advice from me.

And yes, you're not going to impress me by quoting the Scriptures like a parrot. The Muslim Extremist do that much better than yourself with much deadlier result. The Devil can also quote from the Scriptures if he finds it advantageous to do so.

Grow up.


So now you spend most of the time speaking about the Muslims and I am a Christian Extremist, the devil and a parrot?  Wow...remember those waves that you are being tossed about.  Hopefully you don't get sea sick.

You are the one that said you were a Catholic and now you are backing out of the statement...watch it, you almost fell out of the boat.

I am sorry if you can't handle a little scripture.  Seems to have ruffled your feathers a little bit (no parrot reference here).  It is what it is...I didn't write the Bible.  I just exercise my choice to believe it.

It is interesting also that you are saying because I quote scripture that I am the same as a Muslim who kills people over it.  That is pretty extreme (to borrow a word from you).  Just because I defend the Bible doesn't mean I am an extemist.  It means, I believe in and have faith in, what I read, that's all.  You can exercise your choice not too...fine.  But don't get your shorts in a bunch when someone else does and then start the name calling and accusations.

As far as growing up...I think it is pretty obviously who the immature one is here.  Now why don't you go ask mommy to warm up a bottle for you.

Dave

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline davecan

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2008, 02:17:20 PM »
Simon or Admin:

Kill it, please.


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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline kurrykid

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2008, 02:21:59 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by davecan

Simon or Admin:

Kill it, please.

Oh come on...we are having so much fun!

Dave

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline simonlock

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2008, 02:33:15 PM »
There's nothing I can do about it. Admin should lock it though, this is really dumb.

Simon
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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline kurrykid

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2008, 02:41:52 PM »
I'm out as well...thanks for the engaging conversation.  Maybe we'll do it again sometime.

Dave

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline prjacobs

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2008, 10:56:51 PM »
Wow!  Holy crap.  Can I say that?  Not according to some people.  People who feel that if you don't believe what they do that you'll go to hell.  That their God is the only true one. People who base their behavior on the threat of punishment in an afterlife, instead of simply doing things because they're right and moral.
I would highly recommend reading "Misquoting Jesus." by Bart Erhman.  The general feeling in academic circles is that there are between 200,000 and 400,000 mistakes in the bible, including, with proof, many stories that were simply added or made up, for a variety of less than "divine" reasons.
Let me give you one example.... Well, maybe more than one.  First of all the original bible, I should say the new testament, was written in Greek. This most ancient bible  was written in "scriptuo continua."  Here's what it means.  In the written Greek language, there was no distinction between upper and lower case letters, no spaces between words, and no punctuation marks were used.
Here's an example of what might happen, from the above book.  godisnowhere.  Does it mean, God is nowhere.... or perhaps, God is now here.  The earliest "scribes" were not trained professional readers, in fact many were illiterate slaves.  It would be like me copying Chinese letters just by mimicking their shape.  Here's another one:  lastnightatdinnerisawabundanceonthetable. Unusual meal, or just ho hum?  Anyone who's ever had to copy a long bunch of letters into a computer to register a product knows that it's not easy to even copy 25 letters correctly.
Uh, oh, I've said something contrary to the orchodox doctrine that people are supposed to blindly obey.  This must be from the DEVIL! Beware, look out!  This can't be true!
We have fought and continue to fight so many wars because of religious morons, and I won't take any holier than thou bul@%# from them!  The universe IS a miraculous place.  We humans have written beautiful poetry, music, books,dance, art of all kinds, to try and bring this eternal infinite into some form of comprehensible expression. Or sometimes just express what it's like to be alive. Sometimes we do it in an allegorical way, because we're.... human. We don't KNOW the answers. It's the best we can come up with. I'm sure that we've all had moments in life, perhaps when listening to a beautiful piece of music, that we feel connected to the eternal. Thank God for the love we feel.  Can I say that if my God's not the official one, or perhaps not one at all?  Unfortunately, the power hungry took those beautiful attempts to understand the deeper meaning of "it" all and perverted them into a system of punishments and rewards.  Do what I say, believe what I say, or you won't live forever in a magic kingdom.  How evil!  That's what happens when you mistake yourself for God.  That's VANITY! Another deadly sin.
So spare me the sermons!  If you are so inclined, send me some love and pray for us all. I celebrate the miracle of life, the fellowship of my forum members and the sharing of our musical and personal experiences together!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 11:06:10 PM by prjacobs »
 

Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline uburoibob

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2008, 07:05:02 AM »
Back to the original question:

Pride that inflates your ego: Bad

Pride that you exceeded your expectations: OK

Pride that shunts your desire to do better: Bad

Pride for others: Good

Bob

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline justwatching

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2008, 09:07:27 AM »
Sorry I would have killed this over the weekend but the switch was bad. Now that your laughing... Stop.

carpe vola
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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?

Offline kurrykid

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Why is Pride Considered a Weakness?
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2008, 04:57:39 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

So spare me the sermons!  If you are so inclined, send me some love and pray for us all. I celebrate the miracle of life, the fellowship of my forum members and the sharing of our musical and personal experiences together!


This post just wouldn't have been the same without your comments.  Thank you so much for enlightening us with your knowledge that is so much better than anyone elses.  Congratulations...your wisdom is beyond wonder and you have clearly demonstrated that you've got it all figured out!

Some people just can't let things go...

Dave

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