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Author Topic: Sweep picking - any tips?  (Read 5120 times)

Offline mojotron

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2008, 11:42:19 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by ckyvick

theres a book THE PRINCIPLES OF CORRECT PRACTICE FOR GUITAR. this explains a lot on how to get faster and learning new skills. its gotten exercises you would have never thought of before.


I'll have to check that out, most of my technique is infered from a Christopher Parkening book I got back in the mid '70s.
 

Sweep picking - any tips?

Offline Lwinn171

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2008, 12:12:42 PM »
OK. I'm now officially working on this technique. The right hand isn't the issue, for me, at the basic beginner level. Precision in the left, though, is a different story. The timing there needs some work. I'm gonna keep at it, though. I'm seeing enough progress in the 1/2 hour I've put in thus far. Interestingly, I'm making better progress with this by closing my eyes and visualizing the chord shape I'm using as a starting point (the Major chord shape Simon posted above. I agree it's much easier than using anything with a bar in it, for now.

Now to go close my eyes, and develop some muscle memory...



Lawrence Winn
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Sweep picking - any tips?

Offline mojotron

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2008, 12:39:24 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Detonator

Not all of the triads involve barring though.  The following two may be easier for someone having trouble with the finger rolling.  The only thing that makes these hard is the 2 string shift of the index and middle fingers.

Major
---------9-11-16-11-9--------
-------10------------10------
------9----------------9-----
---11-------------------11---
-12-----------------------12-
-----------------------------
...



Thanks a ton guys!!! This was exactly what I needed, the sweeps that Simon pointed me to were along the lines of:

---------9-11-11-9--------
-------10---------10------
------9-------------9-----
---11----------------11---
-12--------------------12-
--------------------------

And,

---------9-11-9--------
-------10------10------
------9----------9-----
---11-------------11---
-12-----------------12-
-----------------------

I have these working now, and will work on the additions to this (above) this weekend. I really like the patterns that do not involve finger rolling just for the sake of avoiding RSI. Thanks again!
 

Sweep picking - any tips?

Offline Detonator

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2008, 07:24:45 PM »
^ ah same thing without the extra tapped note, probably a bit easier.  Here's some more interesting sweeps.

m7b5 (I call it the Zelda sweep)

--------------------12h15/18/15p12---------------------
------------------15--------------15-------------------
-------------12h15------------------15p12--------------
--------12h14----------------------------14p12---------
------13--------------------------------------13-------
-12h15------------------------------------------15p12--

add13 (I call it the spacy sweep)

--------------------12/16h19h20p19p16/12---------------------
---------------12h13--------------------13p12----------------
-------------13------------------------------13--------------
-----------14----------------------------------14------------
---11h14h15--------------------------------------15p14p11----
-12------------------------------------------------------12--

Classic Diminished sweep (the death metal sweep)

--15p12------------------------------12h15--
-------14p11--------------------11h14-------
------------12----------------12------------
--------------14p11------11h14--------------
-------------------13--13-------------------
---------------------15---------------------

these aren't really as hard as they might look.


 


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Sweep picking - any tips?

Offline simonlock

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2008, 11:00:51 AM »
oh yeah i wasnt thinking of the "C" and "G"shape maj/min arps.

Simon
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Sweep picking - any tips?

Offline Lwinn171

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2008, 12:33:07 PM »
Wow... this is fun. Still working with the same patterns, C Maj and Min shapes, but a couple of sessions later it's really starting to smooth out and speed up. This is definitely going to open up some possibilities, musically. Thanks for your tips, guys. I can see a new plateau, at the end of this hill. Your help has made that hill less steep.

Lawrence Winn
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Sweep picking - any tips?

Offline Picks

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2008, 04:18:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steel Pelican

Took a sick day today, and thought the extra hours would be a good time to work on my sweeps.  My current practice regimen is to start with a simple, 4 string chord, and sweep it up, then down, then move up one fret.  Wash rinse, repeat.

Any tips from experienced sweepers to help get the process moving more quickly?  One question I'm struggling with is how tightly to hold the pick.  I find myself loosening my grip on the pick to better facilitate the sweeping motion- is this a good or a bad habit to get into?



I humbly submit a few things that seem to help develop this.

The sweep, of course occurs in the right hand (pick hand) and usually there is a corresponding shape of some type, where synchronization between this shape, and the consecutive or directional picking occurs. Most folks focus on left hand shapes when in fact, the right hand motions are where the focus should be initially. You're looking to find a sensitivity to groove in the right hand. Metronome is gonna help.

I think, that simply working on string pairs, initially, is a good idea. Maybe just the b and e strings, they are thin and require the least amount of pressure. A shape might be a simple box (3rd and 5th frets)or if you prefer something harmonically relevant, maybe a part of a pentatonic scale. One stroke accross the B and E followed by one stroke up, no hammers or pulls from the left hand. Think  1 2, 1 2. Tap your foot so your whole body is feeling time. Bounce your leg, just get your whole 'self', feeling tha time. It helps.

You don't need to sound any pitch at all, mute the strings if you wish and just get your right hand moving in time. Focusing on one hand will help quicker than juggling the concerns of both. This is easy later on once you sync shapes on the neck.

Once this is easier, move to a three string group...perhaps, G B E and so the same. Think  1 2 3, 1 2 3 or triplet triplet...I used to envison old Victorian baroque dancers doing a waltz for this. 'Feeling' the triplet, it is so important. You ultimately want to feel these things, not think them. Tap that foot. Thanks.

Continue with the other string groups, until the (2) 5 string groups. Consider the time value and the unique rhythmic variance with each string group, as mentioned above.

Once this feels okay, consider the definitive right hand shapes. The 5 primary shapes or the CAGED forms seem to be the shapes everyone does for triadic things.

eg...A G Form with the root at the 8th fret, creates the geometry for a A minor pentatonic or a A minor triad, in two octaves. Yes, the root is A at the 5th, we're talking the G form.

Back the 2 string idea, consider the copy and paste approach in playing a 2 string shape on the E and A, D and G and finally G and B strings. One shape per string pair, simply repeated at each octave. Really simple and really effective.

If you can play a Major 7th arp and a minor 7th arp, a good form is a 5 string group (a to high e) you can create all kinds of extensions.

A  5 string group C major 7 arp, starting on the A string is a lot like a simple E minor triadic arp, just move that first  b's  on the A string, up to c.

A good exercise would be to run these shapes on each others thirds.

For example: C major arp, then on the third of C  (E), a minor 7 shape, on the third of this (G) the major 7 shape again, and of course on the third of this, another minor arpeggio starting on b. Continuing this just takes you further and further out.

This gives you a series of arps that forms collectively what has been called a 'super arpeggio', each of these arp's are related, but more importantly, if played over the static C root, create all the extensions of the prime arp.

In this case: CM7, Em7, GM7, Bm7, DM7 etc etc...

Example: the second arp, the E minor 7th, results in a C Major 9th cluster.

The intervallic frame of major and minor third exchange is actually a topic that was slightly discussed in another thread.

Of course, we all know that harmony is made up of alternating major and minor thirds.

Back to sweeping these. Since there are two notes on the a string and the high e string, a hammer and pull off are used. This creates a nice 6/4 groove which is easy to feel and will sit over most 4/4 pulses. Which really is what most folks want out of sweeping. Note density. Fast. Stunt guitar!

Hope this helps. Just remember, sweeping should focus on right hand rhythmic variation, learning the shapes is independent of that.

Lastly, on a unsolicited personal note, I find I sweep very little anymore, if so, it's sparse. Nothing can be more boring than measure upon measure of someone simply raking across the strings as they morph from shape to shape, regulating syncopation in music to a repetition not unlike like a card in bicycle spokes. Well...maybe not so much about music as it is about taming the wire and the wood. Kinda on par with a Guitar hero game...maybe thats the point. All in good fun!!!

The guitar is doing the playing this way, like the dog walking the owner.

My very personal and humble opinion.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 04:24:06 AM by Picks »
 

Sweep picking - any tips?

Offline Bill

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2008, 06:56:50 AM »
Thanks Picks. That was great info for me. I wasn't sure exactly what sweeps were.

I agree with using it sparingly and you don't have to worry about me.[:I]

Instead of starting with 2 strings over a box pattern, I'll have to work up to one string and a dot [:D]

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Sweep picking - any tips?

Offline zlopresti13

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2008, 07:57:03 AM »
honestly, i dont think there is one right way to sweep; or to do any other technique on the guitar for that matter. everyone's hands and fingers are built differently, and EVERY guitar plays different in one way or another...so my advice is take it easy, find out what works for you best...also, dont move on to more complicated shapes before you can get the basic ones (simple 3 or 5 string major or minor arps.) down....but many of the suggestions posted on here are good examples of how to learn, mainly playing slowly with a metrenome.
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Sweep picking - any tips?

Offline bno

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2008, 08:31:17 AM »
Great thread.  Thanks everyone.  Most helpful.  I've been trying to figure some of this out on my own and there's a lot of good stuff here.  I love it when the door to a new room opens up.
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Sweep picking - any tips?

Offline loumt123

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2008, 11:49:01 AM »
I agree, zolpresti. All I see are these technical chord shapes and sweeps that are completely impractical and, personally, that's a huge turn off to me.

 I also have a huge problem with learning by pattern...you can construct your own sweeps. Simple triads are all you really need and if you were to construct a sweep pattern on your own you would find that you've enhanced your knowledge of the fretboard and found a go-to shape that's easier for you.
 

Sweep picking - any tips?

Offline mojotron

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2008, 02:28:31 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

I agree, zolpresti. All I see are these technical chord shapes and sweeps that are completely impractical and, personally, that's a huge turn off to me.

 I also have a huge problem with learning by pattern...you can construct your own sweeps. Simple triads are all you really need and if you were to construct a sweep pattern on your own you would find that you've enhanced your knowledge of the fretboard and found a go-to shape that's easier for you.



Yep - that's kind of what I was saying in my first post to this thread - with some examples that take one from one end of the fretboard to the other. After about 3-4 weeks of getting a good articulated tone/tempo switching between all of those arpeggited chords I was looking for the next logical step and noticed that all of those Eric Johnson string skipping licks were much more fluid and easier to play as well.

I think now a days most people relate sweep techniques with metal playing, but I actually play more clean jazz than distorted stuff and wanted to integrate sweeping into more of a bep-bop Holdsworth meets Coltrane at 1/2 speed kind-of-thing. I love the sound of playing extended triads over 7th and 9th chords - playing them quickly seems to enhance the harmonic complexity I hear. To get there I'm using patterns that require less thought and think more in terms of triads over harmonies rather than individual notes to get there. Obviously, in the end everyone wants to produce something that is artistic not just technical.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 02:30:43 PM by mojotron »
 

Sweep picking - any tips?

Offline zlopresti13

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Sweep picking - any tips?
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2008, 07:54:40 AM »
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

I agree, zolpresti. All I see are these technical chord shapes and sweeps that are completely impractical and, personally, that's a huge turn off to me.

I also have a huge problem with learning by pattern...you can construct your own sweeps. Simple triads are all you really need and if you were to construct a sweep pattern on your own you would find that you've enhanced your knowledge of the fretboard and found a go-to shape that's easier for you.



Yeah man. I know plenty of people who know a lot of advanced sweeping patterns, yet they can't make them (or simpler ones) sound good....don't run before ya can walk.

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« Last Edit: April 03, 2008, 07:56:04 AM by zlopresti13 »
'05 Prestige Ibanez 121A
'07 Gibson Les Paul Classic
'75 Fender Strat
'08 Mint Burst Fly Deluxe

Marshall JCM 2000 50w stack
Marshall JCM 2000 60w combo