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Author Topic: What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?  (Read 18220 times)

Offline kwcabs

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2006, 01:13:13 AM »
Someone had mentioned colors on woods like walnut and the like.  The big problem with those is that they are brown, therefore they do not take color the same way as a light or "white" wood.  As you get closer to black the ability to change the color tone is very limited.  However, there are plenty of light colored exotics that could easily be staind, some of the most interesting have their own colors too, search for a piece of red box elder wood and you'll see this great piece of wood with natural bright reds and pinks, very interesting.  Nonetheless, everyone is on point with this post, Ken Parker went ahead and designed one of the most innovative and coolest guitars ever only to leave his color options in limitation.  I am sure the business folk at US Music will say that there is too much overhead involved in more colors, but fact of the matter to me is that there is a wait for most parkers anyway, they cost a lot, so it would be nice to get what you would like, and if other companies like PRS and Brian Moore can offer a huge variety, most at no added cost, I think Parker should be able also.  I love Parker don't get me wrong, and I totally love my Supreme, but it would be really cool to see other variations out there, and the one, simplest, elegant color for maple that they have never done for production is NATURAL who wouldn't love to see a beautiful natural piece of flammed maple on a Parker?  Yes the Honey color is very nice, but that's it, a Supreme you're top of the line model only comes in one color?????  What's with that, yes they occasionally make a burst like mine, but even then 2 colors for a retail of 6k.  And just think, they've actually eliminated many colors from the past, you used to be able to get like 4-6 more color options for the Deluxe that aren't offered (outside of custom) anymore.  Anyway, Parker, U.S. Music, whoever, please start making some new colors.  And I don't mean to offend anyone, but I personally think this new line of bursts on the Deluxe are quite unappealing.  Yes they are cool cause they are different, and perhaps that what Parker was going for, but I think everyone would rather see Ruby Red come back as a color than a Butterscotch Burst, again sorry no offense, everyone has their own taste and I totally appreciate that, hey it's a strong part of the basis of my business.  Anyway, don't mean to rant, just hope the right people are listening.

Owner of KWCABS guitar speaker cabinets.  We specialize in making simply the best speaker cabinets out there, constructed out of top-quality hardwoods, standard lines as well as custom work.  WWW.KWCABS.COM

Check out my Parker Supreme here www.kwcabs.com/parker%20page.htm

Kurt Wyberanec
Owner of KWCABS guitar speaker cabinets.  We specialize in making simply the best speaker cabinets out there, constructed out of top-quality hardwoods, standard lines as well as custom work.  WWW.KWCABS.COM

Check out my Parker Supreme here www.kwcabs.com/parker%20page.htm

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline 908ssp

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2006, 07:37:00 AM »
Hey kw I agree solid Italian racing red, pearl white, silver, all look better then the new bursts which I just would not own period. I know some people who like the clear on flame maple finish that it seems an obvious choice for a supreme. A transparent black burst on a supreme would be another good choice I think.

I don't think adding a bunch of different woods makes sense. Wood should be chosen for it sonic properties more then it aesthetic qualities. That said it is a great way of doing an occasional limited edition as long as the time was taken to match the proper pickups and or wiring options to get the most out of it. Like a Koa Fly Mojo with Duncans of course, or a full basswood hard tail with a drop D tuner with heavy strings tuned to B or C. Put an extra layer of carbon/glass on the back for increase strength.[^]

Alex
2005 Parker Mojo: 1996 Parker Fly Deluxe: 1998 Parker Fly Classic: 2005 Fly Bass: 2005 Emerald Acoustic X10
1968 Marshall JMP50: 1982 Boogie MKIIC+: 2004 Maven Peal Ganesha
Alex

[IMG]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/ThumbNails/_1010802.jpg[/IMG

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline jamrcat

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2006, 01:01:20 PM »
A quick note about wood finishes. If you look at the most expensive furniture they are almost always pure and natural. Furniture with the highest shine are usually the cheapest made and lowest on the list for quality. The "high gloss" factor is usually used to cover impurities. Now I know guitars are different and I've bought most of mine because of how they looked (which is usually a mistake). But I appreciate great craftsmanship and excellent materials - so give me a Fly Supreme or Fly Mojo in a natural wood with a subtle finish and wa la! I'm a happier parker owner! Oh and by the way, it's one reason i've been eyeing the Nitefly Mahogany, I just love the natural wood :)

Parker P36 (Red)
Adamas II 1982
Washburn RS-10V 1987
Fender Tele USA 1998
Korg AX1500G Toneworks
"A Fly for each hand!"

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline kwcabs

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2006, 02:26:02 AM »
Hey jamrcat, I have to agree and disagree at the same time.  It is true that a lot of cheaper furniture products do have a high gloss, but many of those companies use a much different finishing process that is more like lamination than it is true finishing.  It is certainly not to hide imperfections because the higher the gloss the more visible any imperfection will be, it's simply a matter of reflectivity.  If you have a scratch or ding or anything under that finish it will be emphasized much moreso than putting on a satin finish. In fact in this respect the Satin or Flatter finishes are the ones that are considered hiding finishes.  Gloss on a traditional finish is very simply creating finer and finer scratch patterns from various abrasives onto the surface of a project.  Likewise the finer the scratch the more reflective of light it is and hence the higher gloss.  The main reason that most higher end furniture has a satin finish is three fold.  Firstly, it lends a sense of old world craftsmanship and traditionalism which many people equate with quality.  Secondly, furniture, for the most part is meant to be tactile and will be touched.  People would generally appreciate a silky smooth finish on a wood rather than the tact associated with gloss.  And last, from the exact standpoint I mentioned above, a table for instance is very easy to scratch and likewise a satin finish is both easier to have a scratch not be seen and easier to touch up.  Think of it this way, if you have a corian countertop that is satin finished and you scratch it, you don't really see it, but if you have a high gloss granite top and you scratch it, boy do you see it.  Truthfully, the main reason we don't see anything else but gloss finishes, in general, on guitars is because high gloss shows off color and figure, both of wood and paint alike.  One thing to note though is that a finish can affect the sound of a guitar, and the thicker the finish the less "wood" tone there is.  Although this is very subtle some companies have a made a living by selling thin finish guitars.  While their claims are not untrue, they are mostly a little exagerrated. A real wood high gloss finish is much harder to attain than a satin finish, if you gave me two guitars right now that have been sprayed with the same finish and are ready to be rubbed out to sheen I could probably rub one out to satin in minutes rather than possibly hours for gloss, but just because one is easier does not mean it is better or worse.  Everyone has their own preference, and that is the bottom line, if you have a high gloss guitar, and you really would rather it be satin, it would be very easy to do so with some care, however, it is no where near as easy to bring it back up to gloss.  Just something to keep in mind if you really want a satin guitar.  Just want to offer as much info as I can for all those out there who love wood and guitars as much as I do :)

Owner of KWCABS guitar speaker cabinets.  We specialize in making simply the best speaker cabinets out there, constructed out of top-quality hardwoods, standard lines as well as custom work.  WWW.KWCABS.COM

Check out my Parker Supreme here www.kwcabs.com/parker%20page.htm

Kurt Wyberanec
Owner of KWCABS guitar speaker cabinets.  We specialize in making simply the best speaker cabinets out there, constructed out of top-quality hardwoods, standard lines as well as custom work.  WWW.KWCABS.COM

Check out my Parker Supreme here www.kwcabs.com/parker%20page.htm

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline jamrcat

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2006, 11:00:14 AM »
At first I thought what a diplomat, this guy sould be in politics! Very good points and then I checked out your website, Wow! I need not say anymore. Also that Fly Supreme  is one of the most beautiful guitars I have ever seen, your a lucky Parkerian! Thanks for your thoughts.... Anyone reading this thread should take the time to checkout kwcabs sites!

Parker P36 (Red)
Adamas II 1982
Washburn RS-10V 1987
Fender Tele USA 1998
Korg AX1500G Toneworks
"A Fly for each hand!"

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline kwcabs

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2006, 12:52:38 PM »
Thanks very much Jamrcat, lol it's funny I almost thought to run in my councilman elections a couple of years ago, glad I didn't though, speaker cabinets are much more enjoyable I'm sure.  I do appreciate the remarks though, but, that said I am by no means a complete authority and I always appreciate learning new techniques and information.  Woodworking is always a learning process, you are constantly challenged by new aspects whether they be joinery or finishing or what have you.  One of the great woodworkers of our time, considered by many a living historical treasure is Sam Maloof, this man I believe is near 80 and he continues to refine his work year after year and it seems it is always improving.  You've probably seen tons of his work without ever knowing his name.  Nonetheless my point is very simply that most likely, no matter how long you have been doing something, there is a strong chance there is a better or different, or more efficient way to do it and while it might be the first time you're discovering it, someone else probably did long ago and moved onto a different aspect that you may have tried years before.  Anyway, thanks again, enjoy.

Owner of KWCABS guitar speaker cabinets.  We specialize in making simply the best speaker cabinets out there, constructed out of top-quality hardwoods, standard lines as well as custom work.  WWW.KWCABS.COM

Check out my Parker Supreme here www.kwcabs.com/parker%20page.htm

Kurt Wyberanec
Owner of KWCABS guitar speaker cabinets.  We specialize in making simply the best speaker cabinets out there, constructed out of top-quality hardwoods, standard lines as well as custom work.  WWW.KWCABS.COM

Check out my Parker Supreme here www.kwcabs.com/parker%20page.htm

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline bostjan

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2006, 12:26:54 AM »
Mmmm Italian Racing Red.  [:D]

You know what I would like?  Ok guys, you can laugh at this if you want to...

Boring old Gloss Black Body, Glow-in-the-dark Pickup Bobbins, Knobs, and Tuning Keys.
It'd be cheap, except for the tuning keys.
 

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline jamrcat

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2006, 12:33:45 AM »
Earth calling bostjan...earth calling bostjan...earth calling bostjan...[xx(]
"A Fly for each hand!"

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline KOK

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2006, 08:52:09 AM »
For starter they should just offer Mojos and Classics in colours that are already available for Deluxes.
06 MOJO natural

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline David Tomkins

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2006, 03:02:26 AM »
bostjan - perhaps you could reverse your colour scheme - a glow in the dark fly........mmmmmmm
2005 Green Quilted Maple Custom Mojo signed by Steve Vai, 2006 Parker Fly T-Shirt, 2006 Parker Fly Baseball Cap.  A triple-whammy of Parker goodness!!

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline rt0412

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2006, 05:56:33 AM »
Hi Kurt,

I just want your opinion...

I'm planning to build a guitar out of Warmoth parts:

The neck, a maple one with rosewood fretboard (10" - 16" compound radius, 24 stainless steel frets, Standard Thin or Wizard back countour).

The body would be either mahogany or alder with maple flame top (hollow VIP).

I'm planning to use Waterlox Tung Oil for a natural satin finish. I prefer the look and feel of satin and as you have pointed out, it's easier to touch-up/maintain plus better wood tone.

The question is, would it be suitable for all the body and neck woods mentioned above (fretboard excepted)?

Rolly

quote:
Originally posted by kwcabs

It is certainly not to hide imperfections because the higher the gloss the more visible any imperfection will be, it's simply a matter of reflectivity. If you have a scratch or ding or anything under that finish it will be emphasized much more so than putting on a satin finish. In fact in this respect the Satin or flatter finishes are the ones that are considered hiding finishes. Gloss on a traditional finish is very simply creating finer and finer scratch patterns from various abrasives onto the surface of a project.  Likewise the finer the scratch the more reflective of light it is and hence the higher gloss.

The main reason that most higher end furniture has a satin finish is three fold.  

Firstly, it lends a sense of old world craftsmanship and traditionalism which many people equate with quality.  

Secondly, furniture, for the most part is meant to be tactile and will be touched.  People would generally appreciate a silky smooth finish on a wood rather than the tact associated with gloss.  

And last, from the exact standpoint I mentioned above, a table for instance is very easy to scratch and likewise a satin finish is both easier to have a scratch not be seen and easier to touch up.  Think of it this way, if you have a corian countertop that is satin finished and you scratch it, you don't really see it, but if you have a high gloss granite top and you scratch it, boy do you see it.  

Truthfully, the main reason we don't see anything else but gloss finishes, in general, on guitars is because high gloss shows off color and figure, both of wood and paint alike. One thing to note though is that a finish can affect the sound of a guitar, and the thicker the finish the less "wood" tone there is. Although this is very subtle some companies have a made a living by selling thin finish guitars. While their claims are not untrue, they are mostly a little exagerrated.

A real wood high gloss finish is much harder to attain than a satin finish, if you gave me two guitars right now that have been sprayed with the same finish and are ready to be rubbed out to sheen I could probably rub one out to satin in minutes rather than possibly hours for gloss, but just because one is easier does not mean it is better or worse. Everyone has their own preference, and that is the bottom line, if you have a high gloss guitar, and you really would rather it be satin, it would be very easy to do so with some care, however, it is no where near as easy to bring it back up to gloss. Just something to keep in mind if you really want a satin guitar.

Just want to offer as much info as I can for all those out there who love wood and guitars as much as I do :)

 

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline Lwinn171

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« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2006, 11:04:49 PM »
Rolly,
A word or two about waterlox... It is a very beautiful finish, and I've used the regular waterlox (sealer/finish, used be called original formula) on dozens of furniture projects. However, there are some drawbacks. It's not an especially hard finish, and doesn't offer the wood much protection. Dings and scratches will happen more easily than with nitrocellulose lacquer. It really soaks into the wood, and may dampen tone and resonance. It's a bit shinier than you may expect. I DO NOT recommend the Satin Waterlox. I finished a table with that, and hated the look. It was one huge disappointment. If you must tone down the shine use a gloss finish (that has a higher solids content, and is thus a harder finish), and buff it down to the desired level of gloss with Mirror Glaze compounds (available in several grades, as an automotive finish buffing compound). You can even buff a hard, shiny finish with paste wax loaded on a piece of 0000 steel wool, but this is going to make it very satin.

Lawrence Winn
"42.7 percent of all statistics are made-up on the spot."
2001 Fly Classic, Green
Larivee Parlour Guitar
Several inferior others
Mesa Boogie MK IV
Marshall 2-12 cab
Fender acoustasonic 30

Lawrence Winn
2001 Classic, 98 Deluxe
various amps, various toys

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline rt0412

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2006, 04:17:45 PM »
Maybe the Watelox Urethane will be a better option... like the NiteFly Mojo. Anyway, I was surfing the web looking for people who might have successfully use Watelox Satin Tung Oil with their guitar. It appears that somebody was succesful with it. I wonder what they sound like though.

http://home.att.net/~cntarasi/

http://home.att.net/~cntarasi/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

quote:
Originally posted by Lwinn171

Rolly,
A word or two about waterlox... It is a very beautiful finish, and I've used the regular waterlox (sealer/finish, used be called original formula) on dozens of furniture projects. However, there are some drawbacks. It's not an especially hard finish, and doesn't offer the wood much protection. Dings and scratches will happen more easily than with nitrocellulose lacquer. It really soaks into the wood, and may dampen tone and resonance. It's a bit shinier than you may expect. I DO NOT recommend the Satin Waterlox. I finished a table with that, and hated the look. It was one huge disappointment. If you must tone down the shine use a gloss finish (that has a higher solids content, and is thus a harder finish), and buff it down to the desired level of gloss with Mirror Glaze compounds (available in several grades, as an automotive finish buffing compound). You can even buff a hard, shiny finish with paste wax loaded on a piece of 0000 steel wool, but this is going to make it very satin.

Lawrence Winn

 

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline kwcabs

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2006, 03:04:19 PM »
Hi RT, in terms of the finish you're mentioning, it would work, although it might maintain a sticky feel on the closed grain maple longer than the rest of the guitar.  If you are looking for that satin smooth natural look I would suggest a finish that is pretty easy to apply with some patience.  That would be about 4 coats of a blended oil, you can use something you can find in a home store like home depot, something like minwax poly or spar urethane, then reduce it about 2 parts urethane to 3 parts mineral spirits.  You can apply it by brush or wipe it with cheesecloth.  Usually a wiped finish will have less marks.  You should be able to get 2 coats a day on.  And you can either go straight satin or buy the gloss and knock it down as Lwinn suggested.  However, if you apply it with care you should be able to get a very nice finish without having to rub it out.  Plus it will offer much more protection.  Urethanes and the like are build finishes they actually build up on the surface of the wood as where natural oils such as tung oil are penetrating.  They are absorbed by the wood and eventually evaporate needing to be refreshed.  It is possible to use polymerized oils which are both absorbing and building, danish oil is a common name.  They offer more protection and need less refreshing but offer the same drawbacks and tung in terms that it takes quite a while for the finish to cure and will eventually need refinishing.  The one suggestion I might make in terms of your particular application would be to have the back of the maple neck sprayed with satin laquer.  When you use an oil finish on the neck it wears out a lot faster, and if you used the urethane blend I mentioned it will work but will probably feel a little tackier, although you could lightly sand it to a more matte feel on the neck.  One more note, if you plan to use Alder, it is very plain looking, and if you are not going to stain the guitar it might look really dull, Mahogany is a much more interesting wood naturally, but it is open grain, and a waterbased clear grain filler would probably be preferred before finishing.  Anyway, best of luck with your project, hope I have been some help.

Owner of KWCABS guitar speaker cabinets.  We specialize in making simply the best speaker cabinets out there, constructed out of top-quality hardwoods, standard lines as well as custom work.  WWW.KWCABS.COM

Check out my Parker Supreme here www.kwcabs.com/parker%20page.htm

Kurt Wyberanec
Owner of KWCABS guitar speaker cabinets.  We specialize in making simply the best speaker cabinets out there, constructed out of top-quality hardwoods, standard lines as well as custom work.  WWW.KWCABS.COM

Check out my Parker Supreme here www.kwcabs.com/parker%20page.htm

What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?

Offline rt0412

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What Finish Option Should Parker Offer?
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2006, 12:31:27 AM »
Thanks for the good advice, Kurt. I might be holding off on that project for a while... think it through and gather more info. [:(]

Actually, the real reason is that, I just bought John's (jwrooker) NiteFly-M and it would probably hold my attention for quite awhile. I'm already thinking on what to modify on that guitar, even if I don't have it in my possession yet. [:)]

After reading your post, I'm now concerned about the NiteFly-M's finish. It's satin, oiled finish, meaning I have to maintain it periodically...? It might be a good thing or a bad thing. I think what will happen is I'll probably get tired of doing it and eventually use urethane finish. I'm also thinking of what Lawrence said about dings and scratches. What would be the best urethane finish available then?

BTW, did you read my post in the Custom Parker Guitars? What do you think?

quote:
Originally posted by kwcabs

Hi RT, in terms of the finish you're mentioning, it would work, although it might maintain a sticky feel on the closed grain maple longer than the rest of the guitar...

« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 12:35:49 AM by rt0412 »