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Author Topic: Changes we're thinking of doing on Nitefly  (Read 23438 times)

Offline bno

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Changes we're thinking of doing on Nitefly
« Reply #60 on: May 07, 2010, 04:12:27 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by BillyT</i>

We have 50 we are working on. When they are gon, we are out of the nitefly neck business.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Just curious - but I'm guessing that the effort to create a Nitefly neck wasn't too far removed from the effort to make an entire Fly and the pricepoint differential was making the NF tough to market?  So, the full carbon/glass neck is only on the Fly/DragonFly -and just the fingerboard on the Washburn WM 526.  I would suggest that if you can put the fingerboard on a Washburn you might consider putting it on one of the DF bolt-ons.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 11:45:20 AM by jd84mc884qb »
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Changes we're thinking of doing on Nitefly

Offline iguitaryo

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Changes we're thinking of doing on Nitefly
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2011, 06:10:07 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by FastRedPonyCar

If you want to make an improvement to your tremolos, build a bigger tremolo block.  Use brass.  I can hands down say that replacing my floyd rose's trem block with a brass block that has much more mass to it GREATLY improved the tone on my Carvin.  That hair thin little strip of metal coming off the base of the tremolo that has the 3 notches for the trem spring is a joke.  Replace that with a big slab of brass (pointing all the extra size towards the spring to retain the same degree of tremolo bend back ability) and you'll hear your tremolo upgrade.

Oh and one other thing, give the saddles more room to go forwards towards the nut.  One of my srings will never be perfectly intonated thanks to the saddle's very limited range of adjustability. (yet another problem I do not have with any other tremolos)

_____________________________________
 - Drew -
2008 Flame Top Mojo
Splawn Nitro Half Stack




I found this thread by searching "brass and tremolo"

I've given serious thought over the past several months to why my nitefly seems to be lacking in tone, mojo and resonance compared to the stratocasters I've been picking up at shops. I've come to the conclusion that it's either the carbon fretboard or the bridge - or maybe a combination of the two.

After researching the construction materials of the current tremolo (which functions brilliantly), it appears that it is primary made of aluminum with no tone block. Aluminum is not a good conductor of electricity, nor sound.

I appreciate the effort and theory behind Ken Parkers keeping his guitars light weight. But I really think the tremolo needs to be forged from brass and with a brass tone block where strings are fed through the bottom of the guitar. Also, more adjustment room for the saddles is a must! The overall design and functionality of the tremolo is fine - but it needs an upgrade to a more resonant material.

Maybe Parker can experiment with a dragonfly by putting in a tradition tremolo to see how it affects tone. How do the floyd dragonfly's sound?

I've even thought of finding a way to attach a toneblock to the current tremolo system.

I believe it would be one of the most significant upgrades to the Parker line. Anyone else want to chime in on this?
 

Changes we're thinking of doing on Nitefly

Offline mojotron

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Changes we're thinking of doing on Nitefly
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2011, 11:43:26 PM »
"more adjustment room for the saddles is a must!"
I totally agree with that. I set my action on my NFA to .020" on the high-e side (measured at the 12th fret with a capo on the first fret) and .030" on the low-e side and the intonation is very much a combo of compromises. The intonation where I play (5th through 17th on the low strings and 5th through last fret on the higher strings) is OK, but I wish it has more tolerance.

I've made a few of my own hard-tail bridges for Fender type guitars out of different materials and I've actually found that Aluminum is an excellent bridge plate material.

Here's one of my favorite bridges I made form some Aluminum angle:


This is on one of the guitars that I made from scratch - the one thing I found when I started making my own necks and bridges is that every little aspect of the guitar's design has some impact on a guitar's tone/character: Oddly enough, this guitar sounds just like a Les Paul and it's got none of the right design aspects except the pickups... [?] - I think it's more about the brass saddles, a .1uF tone cap, 250k pots, thickness of the neck as well as the pickups though.


The material used for the saddles seem to have more to do with the tone in a fixed bridge. I'm using Brass saddles on this one, but Aluminum saddles sound similar: Brass saddles seems to have a little more sustain (this bridge sustains very well) and a little more low and high end.

I factored out the mechanics of the trem when I compared bridge metals - a trem has a lot more going on mechanically. All metals will sound a little different - but IMO there's no mojo metal for a bridge. All metals sound a little different, but between 1018 Steel, 360 Brass, and the Aluminum that I get from home depot it more about the assortment of tones that are emphasized rather than one being clearly better than another.

The interesting thing about the weight of the bridge is that it's important to put a lot of weight right where the bridge is to balance out the weight of the headstock and tuners. As I remember it - and it's been a while so I might be wrong, but when I've taken Parker bridges off they felt like the bridge plates were made out of either Steel or Brass and the saddles were stainless steel - I bet there is almost as much mass there as a Strat bridge.

On a trem bridge there are a lot of things to account for - the number of springs, types of springs, what the springs are made out of... The concept of a "toneblock" fixing much related to a guitar's sound is more about marketing than reality IMO. In a strat type of trem I get way more out of sanding the bottom of the bridge plate, and the top inertia-block where it bolts to the bridge plate, completely flat - so that they have as much contact surface as possible. Also, make sure all the screws are tight - all of that is important on most bridges.

I put some Fender Fat-50's pickups in my NFA and it can sound very much like a Strat, but not completely like a Strat. The Dimarzio pickups that come in Niteflys are not very vintage sounding - they seem to be made to complement the tones that the NF produces - which seem to be a wider range than a Fender so the pickups seem to be over-wound to be more mid-heavy and attenuate the upper high end. I do notice a difference between my NFA and my Strats with the same pickups in them - but I think almost all of the difference in tone has to do with how rigid the neck is as well as the frets/fretboard. Backing off some of the high end on my amp helps the sound to be a bit more Strat like, but I think one really needs more vintage sounding pickups to get more of a Strat sound.

Also, the whole design of a Strat is very different from a NF - they are always going to sound different. When a Strat is working just right it's an amazingly lively instrument, but I think it's due to the whole instrument working together in tiny ways.

I think what may be perceived as lack of tone may be due to some lose fitting parts on your NF - especially the neck screws and the tuner nuts (be very careful with those - Aluminum and the finish dents easy; maybe the pickups - or pickup height adjustment - may help to resolve some tone issues. Also, strings seem to make a lot more of a difference on a Parker - I use D'Addario strings on my Fly and GHS Boomers on my NFA - makes a bit of a difference IMO.

In general, I think the NF has a much wider set of tones that it gets on the high end and the attack is a bit sharp due to the frets/fretboard and saddles. If I attenuate those highs and the attack by adding just a hint of compression when using Vintage-type Fender single coils I don't really feel a need to switch to a Strat for Strat-like tones. Interestingly, if I boost the compression some more and use a booster (FatBoostered form the GGG design) I get a really convincing PAF tone using Fat-50's pickups - go figure...

I made a Strat where I made the neck with a Bubinga veneer neck - kind of like the mid-60's strats only I made it with a skunk-stripe on the back... The sound of that guitar is amazingly articulate when compared to other necks with Rosewood or maple fretboards, as well as one-piece necks. Sounds awesome played clean. So, I do think that just the fretboard wood/construction can have a big influence on the tone of the guitar.  

BTW - here's a clip I made with my NFA with Fat-50's - I think the tone of the guitar is pretty good, although the clip itself (kind of a Carlton/Keaggy kind of diatonic wondering thing with some Bob James sounding changes for the bridge) is a rough first take that I never finished. Like I said - not really a Strat sound - but pretty Strat like.

http://www.mojotronics.com/images/toons/Fooling_around_NFA_fixed.mp3

Of course, the NF is a discontinued model - but perhaps some of this feedback can get rolled into future designs.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 12:24:19 AM by mojotron »
 

Changes we're thinking of doing on Nitefly

Offline iguitaryo

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Changes we're thinking of doing on Nitefly
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2011, 09:59:27 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by mojotron

"more adjustment room for the saddles is a must!"
I totally agree with that. I set my action on my NFA to .020" on the high-e side (measured at the 12th fret with a capo on the first fret) and .030" on the low-e side and the intonation is very much a combo of compromises. The intonation where I play (5th through 17th on the low strings and 5th through last fret on the higher strings) is OK, but I wish it has more tolerance.

I've made a few of my own hard-tail bridges for Fender type guitars out of different materials and I've actually found that Aluminum is an excellent bridge plate material.

Here's one of my favorite bridges I made form some Aluminum angle:


This is on one of the guitars that I made from scratch - the one thing I found when I started making my own necks and bridges is that every little aspect of the guitar's design has some impact on a guitar's tone/character: Oddly enough, this guitar sounds just like a Les Paul and it's got none of the right design aspects except the pickups... [?] - I think it's more about the brass saddles, a .1uF tone cap, 250k pots, thickness of the neck as well as the pickups though.


The material used for the saddles seem to have more to do with the tone in a fixed bridge. I'm using Brass saddles on this one, but Aluminum saddles sound similar: Brass saddles seems to have a little more sustain (this bridge sustains very well) and a little more low and high end.

I factored out the mechanics of the trem when I compared bridge metals - a trem has a lot more going on mechanically. All metals will sound a little different - but IMO there's no mojo metal for a bridge. All metals sound a little different, but between 1018 Steel, 360 Brass, and the Aluminum that I get from home depot it more about the assortment of tones that are emphasized rather than one being clearly better than another.

The interesting thing about the weight of the bridge is that it's important to put a lot of weight right where the bridge is to balance out the weight of the headstock and tuners. As I remember it - and it's been a while so I might be wrong, but when I've taken Parker bridges off they felt like the bridge plates were made out of either Steel or Brass and the saddles were stainless steel - I bet there is almost as much mass there as a Strat bridge.

On a trem bridge there are a lot of things to account for - the number of springs, types of springs, what the springs are made out of... The concept of a "toneblock" fixing much related to a guitar's sound is more about marketing than reality IMO. In a strat type of trem I get way more out of sanding the bottom of the bridge plate, and the top inertia-block where it bolts to the bridge plate, completely flat - so that they have as much contact surface as possible. Also, make sure all the screws are tight - all of that is important on most bridges.

I put some Fender Fat-50's pickups in my NFA and it can sound very much like a Strat, but not completely like a Strat. The Dimarzio pickups that come in Niteflys are not very vintage sounding - they seem to be made to complement the tones that the NF produces - which seem to be a wider range than a Fender so the pickups seem to be over-wound to be more mid-heavy and attenuate the upper high end. I do notice a difference between my NFA and my Strats with the same pickups in them - but I think almost all of the difference in tone has to do with how rigid the neck is as well as the frets/fretboard. Backing off some of the high end on my amp helps the sound to be a bit more Strat like, but I think one really needs more vintage sounding pickups to get more of a Strat sound.

Also, the whole design of a Strat is very different from a NF - they are always going to sound different. When a Strat is working just right it's an amazingly lively instrument, but I think it's due to the whole instrument working together in tiny ways.

I think what may be perceived as lack of tone may be due to some lose fitting parts on your NF - especially the neck screws and the tuner nuts (be very careful with those - Aluminum and the finish dents easy; maybe the pickups - or pickup height adjustment - may help to resolve some tone issues. Also, strings seem to make a lot more of a difference on a Parker - I use D'Addario strings on my Fly and GHS Boomers on my NFA - makes a bit of a difference IMO.

In general, I think the NF has a much wider set of tones that it gets on the high end and the attack is a bit sharp due to the frets/fretboard and saddles. If I attenuate those highs and the attack by adding just a hint of compression when using Vintage-type Fender single coils I don't really feel a need to switch to a Strat for Strat-like tones. Interestingly, if I boost the compression some more and use a booster (FatBoostered form the GGG design) I get a really convincing PAF tone using Fat-50's pickups - go figure...

I made a Strat where I made the neck with a Bubinga veneer neck - kind of like the mid-60's strats only I made it with a skunk-stripe on the back... The sound of that guitar is amazingly articulate when compared to other necks with Rosewood or maple fretboards, as well as one-piece necks. Sounds awesome played clean. So, I do think that just the fretboard wood/construction can have a big influence on the tone of the guitar.  

BTW - here's a clip I made with my NFA with Fat-50's - I think the tone of the guitar is pretty good, although the clip itself (kind of a Carlton/Keaggy kind of diatonic wondering thing with some Bob James sounding changes for the bridge) is a rough first take that I never finished. Like I said - not really a Strat sound - but pretty Strat like.

http://www.mojotronics.com/images/toons/Fooling_around_NFA_fixed.mp3

Of course, the NF is a discontinued model - but perhaps some of this feedback can get rolled into future designs.



Cool guitar and nice nitefly soundclip. I also have the NFA. It's a well made guitar, prefect neck good components. Well, expect for the fact that the single coils we installed incorrectly with the middle in the neck and visa-versa!

I've also given a lot of thought to the neck construction with the carbon/glass fretboard. I need to check out the Dragonfly to see if that seems to have more unplugged resonance/overtones (if I can find one). Plus, it looks much more comfortable!

I've given thought to building a custom brass Parker tremolo to test my theory. The current tremolo really is anemic.
 

Changes we're thinking of doing on Nitefly

Offline Keith Grasse

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Changes we're thinking of doing on Nitefly
« Reply #64 on: October 01, 2011, 05:00:23 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by BillyT

Gentlemen,and ladies if you are also here participating,
This is my first post on the forum, so please bear with me.
My name is Terry Atkins, and I am VP of Manufacturing here at U.S. Music. I build Parker guitars here and want to make some changes to the nitefly models. I want your opinions weighed in on the subject before we change these things, since the Parker owners are loyal and particular about the parker line.
The nitefly necks are very hard to build. They have a tendency to come off the fingerboard presses dead straight with no relief, and then we can't use them. The necks must have at least a couple of thousandths of relief to function properly.
They are the only guitars we make here that are not able to adjust in both directions. The Fly guitars get a two way truss rod that we want to adapt to the nitefly. This would make the nitefly neck adjust at the headstock end like a fly, and eliminate the truss rod capstan.
Opinions regarding this change are what we would like to hear.

The second change I want to propose is adapting the fly flat spring tremolo to the nitefly. We have already investigated if this is posiible, and found that we could do this with a minimum of changes.
This would put the upscale tremolo on the Nitefly, allow us to only stock one tremolo, one backplate etc. It would raise the cost slightly on the nitefly models, but not dramatically.
Please, we are acitvely seeking opinions before we make the changes. Chime in early and often.




I like the idea of a single trem spring, but then I find I don't like coiled spring trems any where near as much as the Parker system. My Strat, Ibanez and Music Man guitars all have coiled springs and the trem is just not as smooth and easy to control. I must say however that I have never played a Parker with a coiled spring trem.

Hope this 2 cents helps.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 05:01:08 PM by Keith Grasse »