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Author Topic: Building my Dream Guitar - advice  (Read 5418 times)

Offline AndyI

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Building my Dream Guitar - advice
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2009, 03:51:46 PM »

Initially, I wanted to get an Artist with rmc's -  piezos working same as the Fishmans and the 13-pin out.

Alternatively, if that was problematic, I was thinking a standard artist with the rmc piezos taking the place of the fishmans. Apparently neither of these options is feasible.

Right now, I'm going to get either a straight artist or a Bronze Fly, the Vernon Reid and, at some stage, look at putting the rmc saddles and pre into my mojo, but only if the signals would behave as they do now (for stereo). I have no need for the mono summed out on that guitar because of my gear setup.



Fly Deluxe '96 | Fly Mojo '05 | Mesa Boogie Roadster head + 2 x 12 / 4 x 12 | AER Compact 60 | TC Electronic G System | Lehle stereo switchers and P Split
Solo album Anthems of a Stranger out at www.andyinnes.com or on iTunes

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Offline Dreamsy

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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2009, 04:08:18 PM »
I was thinking of the same set up as you intial thought.

I still don't understand why it can be done, since it seems to me that the RMC polydrive schematic is explaining that it's something that can be done.
If the only way to have both signal is in a mono output maybe adding a jack would be a solution...

My rep told me that someone from the factory is supposed to call me regarding this issue, if I can get more details I'll let you know.

Custom Fly on order !!!
Fly Classic Custom

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Offline ParkerFlyMajik

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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2009, 01:19:46 AM »
That explains why they have gone with the the Roland system for the new MIDI Fly. Probably wanted to offer piezo sounds too.
I thought it was a strange choice but now I get it.Line6 Vetta HD/Combo
Parker '01 Deluxe
Parker '98 Deluxe

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Offline simonlock

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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2009, 07:40:37 AM »
There's a good possibility of another option for 13-pin coming down the pipe in the near future if you can hold off for a bit.

Simon
Vancouver,BC
A Whole Mess of Flys and I Love Them ALL!!!!!
http://www.myspace.com/428626749
 

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Offline AndyI

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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2009, 08:06:07 AM »
That sounds cryptically interesting. Can you elaborate?

Fly Deluxe '96 | Fly Mojo '05 | Mesa Boogie Roadster head + 2 x 12 / 4 x 12 | AER Compact 60 | TC Electronic G System | Lehle stereo switchers and P Split
Solo album Anthems of a Stranger out at www.andyinnes.com or on iTunes

Building my Dream Guitar - advice

Offline sfw

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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2009, 09:36:13 AM »
Tried to email back, but spam filter bounced, so sorry to others for long diatribe, but might be interesting to you too.

With the RMC Saddles and the RMC Piezo Pre-Amp (part number Hybrid Pro G) you should be able to do the Mag/Blend/piezo to 1/4" guitar output no problem. The kicker is how to do it with the Polydrive I with the 13-pin out also.

I'm still looking for the wiring diagrams, but here is what I read again on the RMC site and there is a picture of the polydrive one circuit on their website.

"The 6 pickup signals from the RMC sensor saddles are preamplified & equalized separately. The buffered string signals are fed to pins 1 through 6 of the built-in DIN-13 connector. These buffered string signals are also mixed together and further equalized to produce the Saddles Mix signal.  
The Mag pickups are buffered using the internal Mag Buffer circuit. The buffered magnetics signal can be combined with the Saddles Mix signal using a BLEND control (pot).

This combined signal is then passed through TONE and VOLUME controls to produce a Mono Guitar output signal which is fed to pin 7 of the DIN-13 connector and also to a 1/4" PHONE JACK.  The Phone Jack turns-on battery power when a regular (mono) guitar cord is inserted.
 
And from their price list

POLY-DRIVE 1 Polyphonic Supercompact Onboard Active Electronics $350.
Miniature module fits in electric guitars. With 6 individual string channels, MAG/PIEZO blend, synth-drive controls & built-in DIN 13 jack. For driving ROLAND, AXON and YAMAHA pitch-to MIDI converters & VG-8 w/RMC pickups .
Complete kit includes : Electronics module, controls, switches, jackplate & mtg. hrdwr"

Which leads me to believe I remember the following standard control setup I did.
Volume Pot
Tone Pot
Mag/Piezo Blend Pot
1/4" Standard Guitar Jack
13-pin Midi Out
S1 Midi Controls
S2 Midi Controls

OPTION 1
Standard Wiring Setup for RMC 13-pin using the PolyDrive 1 Kit. Parker can get this kit and drawing from RMC no problem. It is different than the standard Fly, but uses 3 pots, which a standard refined fly already has a control layout for.

What this will give you is all the 13-pin with s1, s2, Volume, Tone and a mono 1/4" out which is controlled by using the Mag/Piezo blend knob. This works just fine. With Refined Fly layout. Using this layout, I would then use an A/B pedal to route the signal to a different amp when I wanted to use the piezo only (using the blend knob. What you loose is the 3-way switch and the ability to use the mags to one amp and the piezo to another amp at the same time.

OPTION 2
Now, what I remember doing for one guitar, if I can just get a hold of that guitar from owner to verify is the following.
1. Using the standard layout and diagrams just as above to get the above functionality.
2. Instead of using mono 1/4" I used a stereo jack that would turn on the battery for me. I wired the jack tip to the mono source exactly like above. This lets you use the mag/blend to turn off or blend in piezo to get "cooler" OD and distortion.
3. Added an additional peizo volume pot.
4. Connected an additional wire from the summed piezo output from one of the pre-amp pin connectors (see pin-outs for which one) to the piezo volume pot and wired it to the ring of the stereo 1/4" jack. This gave me the blend functionality above out the 1/4" jack as well as letting me use a stereo Y cable to pull out the piezo into a separate acoustic amp. Honestly, I think I soldered the wire directly to a pre-am pin connector or I may have used another single female sleeve, Just don't remember.
However, to do this on a FLY would require 4 pot controls routes (volume, tone, mag/peizo blend to tip 1/4" out, separate piezo volume to 1/4" ring out) and s1 s2 routes for the midi switching.

On a fly, I would choose option 1. When I find the RMC supplied diagrams I can tell you exactly what I did. If you can get them I'm happy to look at them with you and help discuss pros and cons of each configuration.
- Scott

PM10; Few Nitefly's; Franken-Fenders
Wiggles Murray, Barbie Electric w/matching mic, American Idol electric, Pink Hello Kitty

Building my Dream Guitar - advice

Offline sfw

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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2009, 09:37:41 AM »
Hey Dayn, what's your experience or do you or bno have the four RMC wiring diagrams?
- Scott

PM10; Few Nitefly's; Franken-Fenders
Wiggles Murray, Barbie Electric w/matching mic, American Idol electric, Pink Hello Kitty

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Offline cgarlie

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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2009, 10:46:36 AM »

I have the wiring diagrams -- email me if you want copies.

Scott is correct -- you need to use the RMC PolyDrive I -- it will connect to the individual (saddle) piezos and then internally sum them which is then directed back out to the ribbon cable (as lead 10) but not out the DIN. You can then wire this to a pot for volume control or a selector switch (with the mag output) and then out the RTS 1/4" jack. RMC calls these their "Cool Circuits" 1 and 2. You can also wire the mag output to the PolDrive and output it through the DIN -- most synth devices (like the VG-99) then allow you to redirect this to an amp or other system.

Besides the RMC diagrams, a good reference for all this is the Brian Moore iGuitar PolyDrive wiring diagram -- I think that is available on their web site.

Charlie


Parker Deluxe w/ RMC
Gibson '83 Lucille
Gibson Digital Les Paul (HD-6X)
SRV Custom Strat
"Claptonized" 60th Anniversary Strat
PRS SAS
(Original) Dan Armstrong "See-through"
Burns Shadows Custom
PRS SC245 Twentieth Anniversary 
Gibson '83 Lucille
Gibson Digital Les Paul (HD-6X)
SRV Custom Strat
"Claptonized" 60th Anniversary Strat
PRS SAS
(Original) Dan Armstrong "See-through"
Variax II

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Offline sfw

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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2009, 11:56:45 AM »
Hey check this out from previous posts. It has a diagram all layed out too. Thought you might like it as well.

http://forums.parkerguitars.com/post.asp?method=TopicQuote&TOPIC_ID=7455
- Scott

PM10; Few Nitefly's; Franken-Fenders
Wiggles Murray, Barbie Electric w/matching mic, American Idol electric, Pink Hello Kitty

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Offline simonlock

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« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2009, 05:46:32 PM »
quote:
That sounds cryptically interesting. Can you elaborate?


No I cannot. Not without written permission.

Simon
Vancouver,BC
A Whole Mess of Flys and I Love Them ALL!!!!!
http://www.myspace.com/428626749
 

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Offline AndyI

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« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2009, 06:13:16 PM »
Fair enough - we wait with baited breath.

In the INTERIM - I've bitten the bullet! I have a custom Fly Artist Vibrato in Trans Honey AND a custom Vernon Reid Signature Fly with quilt maple cap in a trans honey / black burst on order. I'm so stoked I feel like trashing my other axes and playing air guitar until they arrive!!

Fly Deluxe '96 | Fly Mojo '05 | Mesa Boogie Roadster head + 2 x 12 / 4 x 12 | AER Compact 60 | TC Electronic G System | Lehle stereo switchers and P Split
Solo album Anthems of a Stranger out at www.andyinnes.com or on iTunes

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Offline AndyI

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« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2009, 06:26:04 PM »
"I have the wiring diagrams -- email me if you want copies."

Thanks Charlie - I'll mail you about that diagram. Scott - thanks for your post too - extremely helpful.

Question: being as I'm going to mod one of my older guitars for this, would you guys recommend I get a tech to do this to the refined Mojo, or the pre-refined deluxe? I notice, Charlie, that your post refers to ribbon cable - is that for pre-refined fly or RMC ribbon cable?

Bear in mind that I do have a full set of brand new spare PRF ribbon cables with all switches and pots intact (apparently one of the last few in existence) that I bought from Third Coast in Chicago when they told me there were only two left (before you ask - I bought both and already used one on our singer's Deluxe), so I can effectively kit out my pre-refined Deluxe with new electronics.

Fly Deluxe '96 | Fly Mojo '05 | Mesa Boogie Roadster head + 2 x 12 / 4 x 12 | AER Compact 60 | TC Electronic G System | Lehle stereo switchers and P Split
Solo album Anthems of a Stranger out at www.andyinnes.com or on iTunes

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Offline AndyI

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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2009, 06:38:41 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by sfw



OPTION 1
Standard Wiring Setup for RMC 13-pin using the PolyDrive 1 Kit. Parker can get this kit and drawing from RMC no problem. It is different than the standard Fly, but uses 3 pots, which a standard refined fly already has a control layout for.

What this will give you is all the 13-pin with s1, s2, Volume, Tone and a mono 1/4" out which is controlled by using the Mag/Piezo blend knob. This works just fine. With Refined Fly layout. Using this layout, I would then use an A/B pedal to route the signal to a different amp when I wanted to use the piezo only (using the blend knob. What you loose is the 3-way switch and the ability to use the mags to one amp and the piezo to another amp at the same time.

OPTION 2
Now, what I remember doing for one guitar, if I can just get a hold of that guitar from owner to verify is the following.
1. Using the standard layout and diagrams just as above to get the above functionality.
2. Instead of using mono 1/4" I used a stereo jack that would turn on the battery for me. I wired the jack tip to the mono source exactly like above. This lets you use the mag/blend to turn off or blend in piezo to get "cooler" OD and distortion.
3. Added an additional peizo volume pot.
4. Connected an additional wire from the summed piezo output from one of the pre-amp pin connectors (see pin-outs for which one) to the piezo volume pot and wired it to the ring of the stereo 1/4" jack. This gave me the blend functionality above out the 1/4" jack as well as letting me use a stereo Y cable to pull out the piezo into a separate acoustic amp. Honestly, I think I soldered the wire directly to a pre-am pin connector or I may have used another single female sleeve, Just don't remember.
However, to do this on a FLY would require 4 pot controls routes (volume, tone, mag/peizo blend to tip 1/4" out, separate piezo volume to 1/4" ring out) and s1 s2 routes for the midi switching.

On a fly, I would choose option 1. When I find the RMC supplied diagrams I can tell you exactly what I did. If you can get them I'm happy to look at them with you and help discuss pros and cons of each configuration.




Sorry Scott - just read this now. One thing which is essential for my setup is that I have separate piezo and mag signals arriving ring/tip at my switcher, as I'm switching other Parkers, so the config needs to be identical when it gets to my gear. The other thing I need is the pot and switch on the piezos to roll off level, or circumvent them completely (esp since they zeroed the master vol on the refined fly). I am pretty much constantly running the piezos through a DI to the house, and the mags to my FX and amp.

If I read your post correctly here, that means I'd have to go for option two, but is there no way to make use of the original piezo volume pot for this? and lose the mag/piezo blend pot (being as I'll only run it stereo and not summed)?

Fly Deluxe '96 | Fly Mojo '05 | Mesa Boogie Roadster head + 2 x 12 / 4 x 12 | AER Compact 60 | TC Electronic G System | Lehle stereo switchers and P Split
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 06:40:13 PM by AndyI »
Solo album Anthems of a Stranger out at www.andyinnes.com or on iTunes

Building my Dream Guitar - advice

Offline cgarlie

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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2009, 07:29:11 PM »
quote:


Question: being as I'm going to mod one of my older guitars for this, would you guys recommend I get a tech to do this to the refined Mojo, or the pre-refined deluxe? I notice, Charlie, that your post refers to ribbon cable - is that for pre-refined fly or RMC ribbon cable?





I was referring to the ribbion cable coming off the RMC PolyDrive.

Due to the thin body of the Fly, there is little room for error when routing for the 13-pin DIN output jack -- so unless you are good with tools (very good), I would get a pro to do it.

Charlie



Parker Deluxe w/ RMC
Gibson '83 Lucille
Gibson Digital Les Paul (HD-6X)
SRV Custom Strat
"Claptonized" 60th Anniversary Strat
PRS SAS
(Original) Dan Armstrong "See-through"
Burns Shadows Custom
PRS SC245 Twentieth Anniversary 
Gibson '83 Lucille
Gibson Digital Les Paul (HD-6X)
SRV Custom Strat
"Claptonized" 60th Anniversary Strat
PRS SAS
(Original) Dan Armstrong "See-through"
Variax II

Building my Dream Guitar - advice

Offline AndyI

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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2009, 07:36:55 PM »
Wouldn't dream of touching it myself. There's a tech here who's fitted parts and other stuff for me on my Parkers. I'd take the whole job to him.

Fly Deluxe '96 | Fly Mojo '05 | Mesa Boogie Roadster head + 2 x 12 / 4 x 12 | AER Compact 60 | TC Electronic G System | Lehle stereo switchers and P Split
Solo album Anthems of a Stranger out at www.andyinnes.com or on iTunes