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Author Topic: RMC v. Roland  (Read 3850 times)

Offline loumt123

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RMC v. Roland
« on: September 14, 2005, 05:06:01 PM »
Does RMC track faster than roland? and will the synth pickup preinstalled in the saddle of the new belew model track faster than a roland put on a stock parker? i hope so
 

RMC v. Roland

Offline ZenFly

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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2005, 08:44:41 PM »
I would say the RMC is more accurate at tracking than a GK2/3. Faster? hard to say. I can do sweeps and it will track that, glitchs will still occur if your technique is sloppy esp with the GR33/20  (synths).

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RMC v. Roland

Offline loumt123

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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2005, 05:40:41 AM »
accurate was what i meant. thats what i needed to know [:D]
 

RMC v. Roland

Offline Roland

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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2005, 08:26:04 AM »
In theory piezos should track better than a GK because they are closer to the bridge.  On a Fly the width of the bridge assembly means that the GK is about 1.5cm away from the saddle, compared with 0.5 cm on a tunematic bridge.  The Roland manual says that 2cm is the maximum tolerance.  

Does anyone know whether a piezo signal, with its higher transient peak, gives better tracking than the GK's magnetic signal.

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RMC v. Roland

Offline bostjan

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RMC v. Roland
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2005, 12:10:19 AM »
the best tracking for synth is done with an optical pickup.

in theory, you only need one of the harmonics, and to know which harmonic it is.  actually, the fundamentals are very difficult to track, because lower frequencies are more uncertain and take a longer time to distinguish.

i think the roland system tracks about the same as the rmc system.  i've seen optical pickups demoed, but never played them myself, so i couldn't say for sure.  on paper, the optical system boasts easier fourier transform, so it should be better, but i can't vouch for how well it actually transduces the signal from the string.

i prefer my rmc for the simple fact that they look neater and are smaller.
 

RMC v. Roland

Offline deep_spaceus

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RMC v. Roland
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2005, 05:52:44 PM »
I have a Brian Moore i8.13 and an Ibanez RG1520GK.  Both have the built in GK electronics and use Piezos for the synth.  The are very accurate.  The Brian Moore seems to be a little better that the Ibanez.  From all accounts, piezo GK guitars are better than the GK pickups.  One interesting fact is that with piezo GK's you set each string sensitivity on the GR-33 to their lowest level (1) vs. higher numbers for the GK pickups.

I love my Parkers and I play them most of the time except for when I need the synth.  I am hoping that the Adrian Belew model is not a rumour.  I would love to have a Parker that does it all so I would not have to change guitars.
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RMC v. Roland

Offline pdubya

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RMC v. Roland
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2005, 11:03:53 PM »
I seriously hope that this roland ready Parker set to be introduced in January will be a different model than the Belew. I also wonder whether they will use a GK type of magnetic pickup, or something like RMC's.
 I play a fly deluxe with a GK3.  I play fingerstyle mostly as well as a lot of two handed tapping and it can sometimes be difficult to stay below the clip threshold of the VG88 even after meticulously setting up the sensitivity settings. Don't get me wrong, I love the capability and tone of the VG88 alongside the Parker's, but I sometimes think that perhaps the GK magnetic pickup may not necessarily be designed to swallow the timbre and dynamic range of fingerstyle playing.  Or, perhaps it could be that given the limited space provided between the Parker's rear pickup and the bridge,the GK3 can't perform optimally.  In any case I would like to A/B between RMC's and a GK3.
 I did recently have the oportunity to play and compare 2 Godins with two types of piezo interfaces.  The first was an LS series and the second was a Multiac, which has RMC's.  The RMC's were tremendously more responsive and fuller sounding than whatever stock pickups they put in the LS series (I hope that I'm correct by calling it an LS- in any case it's the solid body roland ready Godin).
 What I hope to see in this new model Parker is a quality piezo system for the Roland access.  There just seems to be so much less maintenance involved, not to mention that they respond better.  I touched on this subject a few months ago in both tech talk and the suggestions section.  A representative from Parker responded and said that they planned to introduce a roland ready Parker in January.  I hope he keeps his word.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2005, 07:27:04 PM by pdubya »
 

RMC v. Roland

Offline sfw

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« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2005, 06:23:43 AM »
I think you're going to need to get your house payments lined up for a big orange guitar if you want roland ready in January. IMHO. The retrofit of RMC's to a Parker doesn't seem to difficult, have you considered just putting them in yourself? Just curious, not trying to be pushy. Looks like it would be very easy on the p-series guitars and you wouldn't be in to tooo much muula. There is another thread on this topic on GK2/3 vs GR20s with a long discussion of pro/cons you may want to check out.

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RMC v. Roland

Offline pdubya

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RMC v. Roland
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2005, 01:01:34 PM »
I really don't trust my own hand with such a surgery.  I contacted this guy Axel Ruddich several months ago and inquired about this procedure.  He charges about $900.  He also mentioned to me that he was personally working on the prototype fly for Adrian Belew, and that it would not only be Roland-ready, but would also be compatable with Line 6 systems.  I personally am not interested in anything other than the Roland access.
 

RMC v. Roland

Offline Roland

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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2005, 05:18:32 PM »
Continuing topic this.  My take on the story so far is that:

1. Piezos are believed to track better than a magnetic hex pickup.  Both RMCs and Graph Tech have been mentioned, and the Graph Tech electronics is reputed to deliver both midi and normal signals from the existing Fly piezos.  However it's not surprising that Roland, Yamaha and Axon all designed magnetic pickup because they are "easy" to add to most guitars, whereas piezos involve an element of re-building.

2. Some people believe that Axon's AX100 with neural net software, which work on the transients at the front of the waveform, tracks better than Roland's method of measuring over several wave cycles.  However I don't think any of us has done a comparative test.

3. We all agree that synth only works well when it is picked and fretted cleanly.

Has anyone come across any other forums that could shed more light on the subject?

Roland
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RMC v. Roland

Offline pdubya

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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2005, 08:13:48 PM »
This is the first I've heard of Graph Tech.  Is this an alternative set of electronics that individualizes the 6 piezo signals and converts them to a 13 pin jack?  If so, is it installed solely internally or is there also an external interface?  
I think I'll just have to take my whole rig and guitar around to music shops who carry different roland-ready piezo guitars and try to find out the difference firsthand.
Although I own a GR20, I don't expect it to track nearly as precisely as the VG88, since the VG is not a synth.  My biggest concern is whether or not the piezos will relieve the VG's tendency to clip at high velocity fingerstyle playing.  It's the most aggrivating thing because the unit sounds and responds beautifully until I crescendo up to a certain point, at which it then freaks out.  And no matter how precisely I adjust input levels and sensitivities, it's either too little or too much.  What stinks the most is that I love my fly, and I don't want to change guitars.  Anyone else have this problem?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2005, 09:34:09 PM by pdubya »
 

RMC v. Roland

Offline sfw

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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2005, 09:16:17 PM »
http://www.graphtech.com/prodghost.htm and previous thread on GK2/3 layout the options pretty well. Summary, for a Fly, graphtech can take the summed piezo from a fly into their ghost accoustic pre-amp, which hooks to their midi preamp, which hooks to a mounted 13pin output jack that you route or somehow mount to the battery compartment. If you're real interested call graphtech and talk to Lea (Lee) he's the tech guy and he has a Fly at home. They don't do email very well there. He can also retrofit the current fly saddles with graphtech sensors, but he has to have the saddles sent to him, and only recommended if the current ones were not working or having problems. Not trying to be short, just suscinct

- Scott

PM10; PM20; P-38
Franken-Fender
Yamaha FG-410
Wiggles Murray
Barbie Electric w/matching mic
- Scott

PM10; Few Nitefly's; Franken-Fenders
Wiggles Murray, Barbie Electric w/matching mic, American Idol electric, Pink Hello Kitty