The Parker Guitars Forum

Parker Models => FLY GUITARS => Topic started by: Parkerman on March 08, 2012, 03:10:10 PM

Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 08, 2012, 03:10:10 PM
Hi guys

As suggested from another thread here I have been looking at the possibility of a simple modification to change the "Active Humbuckers" (and yes they are definitely active) into good old organic passive affairs. I have stripped out the active PCB (Printed Circuit Board) from my Pre-Refined Fly Deluxe, now this thread will deal ONLY with the early revision 1 version of the Fly, mine is a 2002 so if you have a newer Rev2 Fly look away now!!
My first dissapointment was to learn that the PCB is loaded with SMD (Surface Mount Devices) like in your cell phones guys, these not only make the operation quite difficult but for some almost impossibe to perform the mods, but all is not lost if you have a good guitar tech ready to take on this mod, it is not that difficult, just fiddly and a little time consuming.

So guys who here can use a soldering iron?
who can reconise a circuit diagram (schematic) component symbol?
who has a nervous condition?
and who wants to help me with some suggestions? This is the first post of a few for this mod and I will be presenting the mod in sections, and looking for your input along the way, so who is up for this and who is hiding in the closset (so to speak)? Firstly this is what the other side (business side) of your little pre-amp board looks like:

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/pulsestudio/P1020498.jpg)

pretty huh [;)] well these are the SMD devices....welcome[:(]
On this PCB you will need to cut some tracks, these are the small copper links between the components, and cutting them will remove the active section of the HB's but NOT the Piezo, so here is where I need my first vote from the members here, should we fit a mini toggle switch to select between "Active" and "Passive" HB mode? let's have some ideas of where this switch should/could be located if you feel this option is necessary, so this is the start, need some input straight away.
PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: lucgravely on March 08, 2012, 03:13:17 PM
I want Passive humbuckers and active piezo. I don't need a combination of the two and I don't see any reason to use the humbuckers active once they are passive. My two cents.
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: billy on March 08, 2012, 03:26:12 PM
I can use a soldering iron...

I can recognize a circuit diagram... pics like in your post are probably best though for most here.

I don't have a nervous condition, but it could be arranged...

Would love to offer suggestions.

I've cut traces, replaced SMD components, (BGA, 0201s, QFPs, etc) for military communications equipment.  I'm a little out of practice but was considered an expert during my electronics mfg days.

I took a 2 min look at some of the schematics available too a while ago, and believe it might be possible to add a wire jumper from the mag flex strip pcb connector to the switch/vc to bypass the pcb completely with the mags. (If memory serves I think it was pin 7, or maybe 11 on connector 1.)  

Wish I had more time to really dig in and trace the circuit through, as I wasn't sure if this approach would disrupt the switching or not.

Removing a resistor or cap in line with the trace should also remove the need to cut the trace, unless there's something in parallel.  That said, you would probably want to cut the trace from the pin in question just to be sure.  If done carefully, this mod could be easily reversed and need not be permanent.

I probably would not bother with a switch, either you like the active mags or you don't.
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: mountaindewaddict on March 08, 2012, 03:30:53 PM
I have a refined Fly, so my opinion may not matter, but here goes anyway...

If I was doing this, I'd put a small rocker switch on the backplate, flushmounted so the pad of your finger would switch it, but it wouldn't do it accidentally.  The guitar would still look stock from the front.  You could put quick connect's on the wires (you're going to want to do that on the battery wires anyway).  Just my $.02.

Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe, Gretsch 5129, Way Huge Pedals, Egnater amps, other stuff...
God Bless!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 08, 2012, 03:54:48 PM
OK so let's just look at straight passive HB's for now and then maybe we will do a switched version, yes like the idea of a Rocker on the back-plate Casey, although I would suggest a Slide switch, this was going to be one of my suggestions, or possibly mounted into the battery cover plate?

Well here goes, the first pic is of the 4x components that need to be removed from the board, I prefer this method to actually cutting the tracks, although I will add an image of which tracks to cut for those not able to use a soldering iron.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/pulsestudio/4xcomponentstoberemoved.jpg)

And after removing the above 4x components you only need to add a single wire link as below, it MUST be a covered piece of wire and not just bare link wire, a thin piece of wire from some lighting flex will do the job.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/pulsestudio/Wirelinkadded.jpg)

That's it!! What have I done ??....I have connected the output of the HB's to the input of the stereo jack using just the one wire link, I have removed Q5 the input FET  for the active HB section so this does not load the HB's and also removed C14, R27 and R28 which are in parallel on the output of the jack, this will hopefully present your amp with the very high impedance it needs to see from a conventional passive guitar, if anyone here has the knowledge and can confirm my mods then your input is most welcome.......I
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 08, 2012, 04:07:39 PM
These are the 4 TRACK CUTS you will need to make if you do not want or can not remove the 4 components, you will need to use a surgical knife to cut these copper tracks between the red lines indicated on the image below:

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/pulsestudio/4xTrackcuts2.jpg)

BUT !!! you will still need to have a piece of wire soldered onto the points indicated on the post above, so think before you start guys, and I repeat I have not checked this modification out in the real world, but in an hour I should know if it will work, can't really see why not though[:D]
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 08, 2012, 04:36:45 PM
Its all works fine now !!!!

[:D]
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: sybersitizen on March 08, 2012, 04:39:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by billy

I probably would not bother with a switch, either you like the active mags or you don't.

What about the ability to blend the humbuckers and piezos in mono using the middle postion of the toggle switch?

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: billy on March 08, 2012, 04:54:31 PM
Might be possible to jumper the resistor and cap, don't cut the trace.  Again, just top of head, not looking at schematic.
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 08, 2012, 05:06:02 PM
Guys, I have been a total numpty, I forgot to switch the stereo/mono switch to mono for the Piezo, no wonder it had virtually no output, OK I am going to hang up my boots on this one tonight as it is quite late here in the UK and I will approach this with a fresh approach tomorrow.

Billy, you can not short out the cap and resistor they are across the output and this will produce zero on the output, I had thought of leaving Q5 FET in place though as this may effect the Piezo by its removal, need to look a little deeper but for now do not attempt this mod, I will persist with it tomorrow evening, your lunchtime, more to do guys sorry

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: billy on March 08, 2012, 05:21:57 PM
gotcha, thanks much!

This is a great effort, so you will make many pre-ref people happy if it works.
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 09, 2012, 06:12:34 AM
OK we have lift-off, it works [:D][:D][:D] my error was that I left R27 a 1K resistor in series with the output and this loaded the HB section to produce next to no output, but now it all works, although there are some strange switching functions but I can now say that I have the HB's working as passive pick-ups (pups) and they can be blended with the Piezo BUT ONLY if you use the Stereo cable and have the Stereo/Mono switch selected to Stereo (out position), you will obviously need an amp with 2 seperate channels to do this and the amount of control and pallete of sounds using this method is quite stunning.

The passive HB's do work with a standard mono jack lead but there is no Piezo output in this mode, but the sound from the HB's is quite something used passively so check it out either way you choose. I will continue to develop this modification so as to allow  hopefully a fully functional active Piezo and passive HB's with full blend control in the mono mode but for now enjoy the sound of your HB's in passive mode.

Oh yes just to mention the Mastter Level pot does not function for the passive HB's, the Volume and Tone pots do however work like a conventional guitar and they work very well, as do the Piezo split Volume/Tone pots when both the above are used in the Stereo mode and using the Stereo cable.
 
Just for the record I use a Plexi JTM45 that has 2 channels, inputs 1 & 2 of channel 1 are for the bright channel and this is used for the Piezo output, inputs 3 & 4 channel 2 are the normal channel and used for the passive HB's in the stereo mode, it works very, very well for me using this combination but may I suggest you all experiment with your own set-ups and report back here, the more feedback I recieve the happier I am.
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Bill on March 09, 2012, 06:57:40 AM
Wow, Extraordinary work. This is way above my head and for most I suspect. I would love to hear the difference in mag tone though. Maybe Parker will redesign things to allow a similar result.

Your efforts are of great value to the forum and Parkerknology. Rock on !

A few Flys in my soup
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 09, 2012, 07:43:32 AM
Thank you Bill, well as you would probably guess the sound is more akin to the warm, rich tones of a conventional HB equipped guitar, I am not going to say which guitar, I will leave this to those who choose to do this mod, but for me it was worth the effort. I have a whole bunch of 70's and 80's Ibanez Artists and the modified Fly will keep up with them, also the combined bridge/neck pup position using just a single coil of each pup sounds a lot richer and more rounded, but the beauty for me is when mixed with the Piezo using 2 channels of the amp and the stereo lead, this really opens up new ground with the zing from the Piezo and the rich HB warmth that can be blended in any mix level and tone and all from the Fly.
Guys this is NOT an easy mod to do if you don't have the expertise and tools needed, but a good guitar tech will walk through this easily and for my 2 penneth it is a very worthy mod and worth maybe investing a few bucks, but don't be ripped off, this is a 30 minute job and an approx cost should not exceed $25-40 Stateside or $15-25 in the UK, you pays your money and takes your choice, I need to start my own business I can see........[;)]
So please be careful if you are about to approach this mod, remember the flat membrane cables are delicate, the white ZIF connectors need to be unlocked prior to sliding out the membrane cable, just gently pull back the tabbed locking bar to slacken the grip on the cable then gently pull the cable free, remember to have the lock bar pulled fully open when replacing the membrane cable and to keep this cable firmly home when closing the lock bar, simple stuff but don't rush it please, it will be a costly repair and my name will be S**T so take great care, it will be worth the wait.Image below of completed board [:)]

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/pulsestudio/P1020503.jpg)

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: 908ssp on March 09, 2012, 08:17:42 AM
I don't get it. For $80 you can get a new Fishman Powerchip and few bucks more convert the guitar to full point to point wiring. You can sell a good old style board for double that. Then you can use real wire and mod to your hearts content.
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 09, 2012, 08:45:08 AM
Well maybe some of us want to retain the original stock board, who knows, who gives a S**T I am only offering help to those that want it, if you don't need it then fine [:p] as I have already said if you had bothered to read this thread [:D] "you pays your money and you takes your choice" it's only a frigging mod, don't get so steamed up fella...........stay [8D]

I am going to offer Alex my humble appologies here, I just get a little hot under the collar after spending most of last night and a few more hours today to then learn that someone is suggesting "I don't get it !! why do you need it" so Alex I am sorry for leaping off but I am only trying to offer a simple mod here for all to see, and as I said it may not be for everyone, I would like to learn more of the Fishman Powerchip though, and I have seen your excellent thread swapping out Rev1 for Rev2 pups, some nice work there, again apologies for my outburst [:I] [:X]

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on March 09, 2012, 10:25:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

OK so let's just look at straight passive HB's for now and then maybe we will do a switched version, yes like the idea of a Rocker on the back-plate Casey, although I would suggest a Slide switch, this was going to be one of my suggestions, or possibly mounted into the battery cover plate?



Parkerman, do you think you will be venturing forth on a switched version soon? I always like to have the most choices possible and this seems like a great tonal addition. [;)]

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: lucgravely on March 09, 2012, 10:27:55 AM
I see advantages of both. I love the idea of modding the old board. I love the idea of PTP wiring. Now to just make up my mind which to do... I'll probably side with the "money" and remove my old wiring completely intact and sell it.

In general though Parkerman I love your thinking outside the "box" on this one.
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 09, 2012, 11:25:25 AM
To make the switched version would take a little more time to look over the circuit more carefully, it is not a simple task it now appears, personally I agree with you Luc and would like the complete tonal range but sometimes we all have to make decisions, if it is possible I should know in the next 48 hours or so, but I need to get down with the circuit and figure this one out, so in a nutshell maybe more to follow.......watch this space !!!!

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 09, 2012, 05:17:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tectonix

quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

OK so let's just look at straight passive HB's for now and then maybe we will do a switched version, yes like the idea of a Rocker on the back-plate Casey, although I would suggest a Slide switch, this was going to be one of my suggestions, or possibly mounted into the battery cover plate?



Parkerman, do you think you will be venturing forth on a switched version soon? I always like to have the most choices possible and this seems like a great tonal addition. [;)]

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!



I have spent a couple of hours looking at this and the best I can achieve would be to use a 4 pole double thro mini toggle switch,unfortunately it needs to be like this as it would need to switch all the components in and out of circuit. These switches are available but are quite cumbersome as they have 12 solder tags on them and a body measuring around 20 x 15 x 12mm, so where would it be located, I don't want to drill holes in my baby, well not the body [:(] so any suggestions, what about the battery compartment cover ??

EDIT: Just found the perfect 4 pole switch on e-bay # 390390161084

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on March 09, 2012, 09:17:44 PM
Pman---Something was just haunting me about this whole topic line all day. Checked your Bio. Amp Repair!!! In my opinion, what is so refreshing about your technique is that you have approached the problem  from an amp mod angle instead of a guitar tech angle. Amp mod guys I have been exposed to do not gut-and-go. They completely figure out the unit and then repair or mod or add from there. It looks to me like that was your approach.

I befriended a professional amp repair guy here in SoCal and it looks like both of you travel the same track. Whether I am accurate about that or not, still, you have done a Fabulous Job! [^]

By the by, can a slide switch work according to your very last post? [:)]

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: billy on March 09, 2012, 09:28:30 PM
Awesome, thanks much!

Do the master volume and stereo/mono work now, or does the mod bypass these?

I like it because it's reversible and takes advantage of parts I already have.  The flex and pcb, though a little flawed in execution, are just a few more things that are unique to the flys.  Plus this kind of rework is pretty easy for me, SMD is not hard with a little know how.

If I had flexes or a pcb that was failing, I'd probably consider p2p depending on my mood, $$, and free time.
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 10, 2012, 06:38:51 AM
Well Tectonix a quick brief, I work in research and development for a very well known UK company that manufactures pro-studio recording/processor gear, my approach is simply sit and study the original circuit in hand before turning on the soldering iron, nothing more, nothing less, I also try to foresee any issues that may be encountered from a mechanical aspect too, so yes I guess this is me, the amp repair stuff and guitar re-work/set-ups is simply a pastime/hobby of mine being a keen vintage guitar and valve amp collector.....

Yes the slide switch I have posted from e-bay is ideal with respect to the number of poles and switch functions, the only issue is that this switch is a PCB mount and does not have any fixing tabs for securing to a chassis or plate, but this could be worked around I am sure.

Billy the mono mode only works for the passive HB's sadly with no Piezo, however use a stereo cable and a 2 channel amp and you have both Piezo and HB with full mixing control, the Master Level only controls the Piezo level (which I find a bonus to be honest) along with the normal stock Piezo split Volume/Tone pot, the passive HB volume is controlled by the normal HB Volume Pot and Tone Pot, so in Stereo mode you have every mixing facility of Piezo Volume and Tone and HB Volume and Tone, however the toggle selector switch for HB/Both/Piezo works as follows: HB is HB only, Both is both pick-ups, and Piezo is also both Pick-ups, this is just because of the way the electronics are organized in the original design so nothing I can do about it...... yet !!! The good news is that the HB selector toggle works as original stock Neck/Both(single coil)/Bridge, so the only issue is getting the mono function working correctly, although this may not be possible with the Passive HB's...........more to do I guess[:)]

Thank you for the encouraging comments guys [;)]

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 10, 2012, 08:15:14 AM
Just for the record, there is a schematic for the original (pre-refined) Fly on the web. http://jmstaehli.com/images/guitars/Parker%20Fly%20Schematic.pdf

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: sybersitizen on March 10, 2012, 08:37:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

... the only issue is getting the mono function working correctly, although this may not be possible with the Passive HB's...

I think that was the exact reason why the design involved running the humbuckers through the preamp along with the piezos.

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 10, 2012, 11:44:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy

Just for the record, there is a schematic for the original (pre-refined) Fly on the web. http://jmstaehli.com/images/guitars/Parker%20Fly%20Schematic.pdf
__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams



Hi Paul, yep that is the one I have been using........thanks anyway[:)]

Sybersitizen well yes that is most likely the case and it would make sense to use this arrangement but it does result in the HB's sounding very bright and typically active, which indeed they are as a stock Fly. Like all things I am sure there is another way to skin the rabbit, it is just a matter of working it through and finding the solution. [:(]

Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 10, 2012, 02:56:27 PM
Guys I have now had this passive HB mod in place for around 36 hours and have been playing my cherrished Fly almost constantly, I am no great axe grinder but I can bang out a descent enough tune in Blues and Rock scales and trust me when I say, if ever the world was to allow me just one guitar (and I have around 17 electrics) it would be my modified Fly, whereas 2 days ago I would have needed 2 guitars to fullfill my desire, one of my 70's Ibanez Artists and of course the Fly, but now I have the Artist and Fly in one lightweight package and the best action in the world, what more can a humble guitarist need........[;)]

Seriously though, if this mod doesn't float your boat then I suspect nothing ever will, the pallete of tones when using the stereo output is quite exceptional, from the Strat like tones with both Buckers in sigle coil mode to the bluesy slightly overdriven neck HB, and when cleaned up a little pure jazz.........sweet [:)] the bridge pup now has depth, balls, punch and grunt but can cut through for searing solos and rock riffs when overdriven, and for country rock, combine the warmth of the passive neck HB and mix in the bite and zing of the Piezo and the thing just sings, I love it.

This guitar is now a Swiss Army Knife, it has everything packed into one tiny body and just begs never to be put down. I set out to simply  make an already superb instrument into something with that extra wow factor, and now I believe it has this in droves. I think if I can squeeze into the mix the original active HB's via a small concealed slide switch
then every possible tone would be there at your fingertips.....

I am not suggesting this mod will be for everyone, who knows, but for the small initial outlay and the fact that every mod can be reversed it has to be worth a shot for some of you, just try it......
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on March 10, 2012, 08:33:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman
I am not suggesting this mod will be for everyone, who knows, but for the small initial outlay and the fact that every mod can be reversed it has to be worth a shot for some of you, just try it......



You've really done a lot of work on this and, speaking for myself, I'm over the moon on it. In time, I will venture forth on this with the slide switch option. I will keep watching this topic for it, but just have to say you have really been so generous with your knowledge and I am sure there will be a few who venture forth on the trail you've set. Thanks a Million![:D]

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Voice Of Reason on March 11, 2012, 12:54:33 AM
Being able to "de-activate" the magnetic pups is exactly what I'm looking for... now, the question remains... who has reviews and/or sound clips of the tone change?

I'd definitely would look into it (with the PTP and new chip conversion), but I'd need to be sure before undergoing this - qualified Parker techs are rare in my neck of woods...and I'm in Toronto!

Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 11, 2012, 07:07:11 AM
Guys one simple question.....as I am a newbie here and a relative newbie Fly owner would making these mods to my cherished 2002 Fly Deluxe have an adverse effect on the re-sale value, if (heaven forbid) I ever needed to sell it ? I would appreciate some feedback here as I have no idea, I do have a collection of vintage Ibanez Artists and if I were ever to think of drilling holes in the bodies of any of these it would certainly devalue these instruments, so do we have the same deal with a Pre-Refined Fly ???

OK, here we go.......

Cleaning up the cavity area for a switch to be installed !!!!

OK I have looked at the various options for installing a switch and here they are:

1/ Drill a hole in top of body and fit a 4 pole 2 way Mini-Toggle switch. (Obtrusive)

2/ Remove the battery and relocate to under the pre-amp PCB and place Mini-Toggle switch into battery cavity. (Less obtrusive)

3/ Fix a 4 pole 2 way Slide switch (as indicated in an earlier post) to the underside of the plactic cavity cover. (Non obtrusive)

Here are some images of the cavity space cleaned up after redressing the HB wires and the real estate that is available for either the battery or Mini-Toggle switch and another of the battery sat snuggly in this area, both are possible options, both have their pro's and con's, the slide switch option 3 is the least obtrusive but the switches I have found do not have a fixing tab for a screw to secure to the cavity cover so would need to be glued in place, unless some of you guys know of an altrenative 4 pole 2 way Slide switch, if so please let me know, anyway here are the images pf the cavity area after cleaning up the wiring from the HB's with a few plastic Ty-Raps......

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/pulsestudio/P1020507.jpg)

and with the battery relocated and yes the pre-amp PCB still has enough space with the battery installed here, this would make use of the battery cavity for the Mini-Toggle switch....

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/pulsestudio/P1020508.jpg)

And with a Mini-Toggle switch in place in the battery compartment:

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/pulsestudio/P1020511.jpg)

And this is to show how much the toggle will protrude from the guitar body edge, it is a winner I believe [:D]

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/pulsestudio/P1020517.jpg)

it is a very good fit, I could not have wished for a better solution to be truthful, I believe this would be my personal recommendation, the Mini-Toggle is easily accessable, the mod is easier to do, the wires from the switch can be routed through the hole provided for the battery leads, it all makes perfect sense to me and the Mini-Toggle switches are available here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Pole-DT-2-position-Toggle-switch-NEW-/120841505022?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item1c22b708fe

and the battery cover is surely still available from Parker should you wish to restore to orginal stock flavor any time in the future, this one certainly gets my vote guys....

What do you think ??????

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on March 11, 2012, 11:45:20 AM
I like it. I think that I would make my own battery cover for the switch since I don't believe any prerefined parts are available through Parker and probably skant-to-none on the open market unless you get extremely lucky.

Also, there are people such as myself who will not buy a modified high end guitar (unless it possibly came from Pat Metheny, Steve Vai, Eddie van Halen, or the Great Jimmy Page). This gives me the opportunity to keep its value in tact sort of like a playable artwork, or modify and then know it definitely will be worth less later.

I noticed you had a nice, long EBAY link for your toggle. Do you have one for the slide you found? I could not locate it with the numbers you had posted. This would give me an idea of the values and contacts I would need to do the job.

Once again, thanks for all the time and generosity you have given.

And oh yes, if you ever decide to take on the refined Fly, I will definitely be taking notes on that also as I am sure others will do.

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: billy on March 11, 2012, 12:37:43 PM
P-man, I wouldn't drill any holes personally.  The batt option looks most promising.  You'll probably find that you won't use that switch much though.

Voice, if you want you could mail the pcb and I would do the mod for you, gratis.  Just cover postage.

Hope to try this on mine next weekend.
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 11, 2012, 12:46:26 PM
Thank you for the heads up on battery compartment cover Tectonix, that is a great idea to make a replacement, also for the info regarding the re-sale values etc.

Regarding the refined Fly I do not have one and unless I can actually put into practice what I preach I would not entertain offering a similar mod for this later model, sorry ! Yes I could look at the circuit and offer a mod but I can not experiment without the actual guitar in front of me, unless of course someone would like to buy me one or give me theirs [:D]..........didn't think so [:(]

The Slide switch on e-bay is here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390390161084?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I will not be trying the Mini-Toggle switch mod until I get a couple from e-bay in a few days, I am also quite busy doing a fret re-crown on my latest Ibanez Artist so a little pushed for time right now, but as always a good book never ends......I'l be back as the great Arnold S used to say, and possibly still does [:(!]

PMan

Hope this helps
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 12, 2012, 09:33:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy

Just for the record, there is a schematic for the original (pre-refined) Fly on the web. http://jmstaehli.com/images/guitars/Parker%20Fly%20Schematic.pdf
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Hi Paul, yep that is the one I have been using........thanks anyway[:)]


Cool. I don't know how many people here at the forum are aware of existence. I only recently found it (within the last six months or so)

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 12, 2012, 09:47:49 AM
So I see what your idea is for hiding the battery inside the control cavity. But what happens if you leave the switch on for a couple of days and your battery goes dead? Or what if it dies in the middle of a performance? It's at least a 20 minute operation to do a battery change with your scheme. And I personally wouldn't mess with those ribbon cables much, if they get dodgy they are not easy to fix.

If you decide to go this route, make sure you put something non-conductive (thin cardboard?) between the battery and the circuitboard or the battery will short out stuff on the PCB, and something on the PCB could also possibly get damaged as a result.



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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 12, 2012, 10:41:51 AM
Hi Paul

Yes I had considered the fact about changing the battery and your point is definitely a valid one, but the battery if used properly should give many weeks of use, it will only go flat if the jack is left in the socket and as a gigging musician you should always prepare for a set surely, it is all down to organising yourself more efficiently I guess, that's the first point.

I also checked the clearance of a copper top (Duracell) battery, that incidently does NOT fit into the Fly battery compartment and there is enough clearance not to damage the components on the pre-amp PCB, also as the IC's are the highest profile part on the board it would only be these that would touch the battery case and would not cause a problem, but YES I do agree with you about using some insulating tape or non conductive material around the battery case and this would have been included in the next stage of the project after I have installed and tested the switch option for the active/passive HB's.

I do thank you you for your input Paul, you raise some very inportant points and it is appreciated, at least you have been following the thread which is always good to know [:)]
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: sybersitizen on March 12, 2012, 10:51:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

I also checked the clearance of a copper top (Duracell) battery, that incidently does NOT fit into the Fly battery compartment...

They do fit (tightly). I have one in my Deluxe right now.

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 12, 2012, 11:05:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

Hi Paul

Yes I had considered the fact about changing the battery and your point is definitely a valid one, but the battery if used properly should give many weeks of use, it will only go flat if the jack is left in the socket and as a gigging musician you should always prepare for a set surely, it is all down to organising yourself more efficiently I guess, that's the first point.

I also checked the clearance of a copper top (Duracell) battery, that incidently does NOT fit into the Fly battery compartment and there is enough clearance not to damage the components on the pre-amp PCB, also as the IC's are the highest profile part on the board it would only be these that would touch the battery case and would not cause a problem, but YES I do agree with you about using some insulating tape or non conductive material around the battery case and this would have been included in the next stage of the project after I have installed and tested the switch option for the active/passive HB's.

I do thank you you for your input Paul, you raise some very inportant points and it is appreciated, at least you have been following the thread which is always good to know [:)]


Sounds like you have thought it all out. I'm always playing the devil's advocate, so don't take anything personally. [;)]

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: sybersitizen on March 12, 2012, 11:17:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

... in the next stage of the project after I have installed and tested the switch option for the active/passive HB's.

I'm glad that you intend to take this additional step. A really valuable follow-up at that point would be to record a good A/B comparison where you switch back and forth in real time so others can hear what you have described.

At the risk of diverting this thread, which I don't want to do, I only want to say that I find it hard to imagine these changes resulting in dramatic improvements that I personally would find worthwhile. I've played my '69 SG almost exclusively for many years, with its nonamplified PAF humbuckers. When I switch between playing it and my Deluxe, any difference in tone (and I'm not sure I hear any difference, really, when the Deluxe is operated in normal HB mode and I'm running my amp with my typical 'blues' setup) can be essentially eliminated with a tweak of a tone or volume control. I can accept the idea that my own ears are just not as discriminating as others, but it would be interesting to have some sonic evidence at hand so I can better understand what others are getting excited about.

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 12, 2012, 11:50:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sybersitizen

A really valuable follow-up at that point would be to record a good A/B comparison where you switch back and forth in real time so others can hear what you have described.


I'd also like to hear that with my own ears.

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 12, 2012, 12:30:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy
Sounds like you have thought it all out. I'm always playing the devil's advocate, so don't take anything personally. [;)]

Never Paul, life is too short [:)] I actually appreciate it when someone does question my methods or my logic, I am not God and would never profess to being anything other than a keen techy who plays guitar as an incidental [:D] so fire away my friend [;)]

I have placed the order for a couple of the 4 pole 2 way Mini-Toggle switches on offer from e-bay and should have them by thursday I guess, so maybe it will be this weekend before I have a fully blown, all singing, all dancing Fly on steroids.......can't wait [:)]

Sybersitisen, I wish I could get some descent sound files for you to listen too, maybe one of the other guys here could up-load something onto the net for all to hear when they have made the changes to their Flys.

Personally I am only too aware of the differences between my Fly Deluxe and my Ibanez Artist collection, also I have a Strat and Tele and nothing (for me at least) comes close to the Fly, with the exception of one guitar and that is my Ibanez Artist AR400 which has active humbuckers, it has a very similar character in that it has this kind of zing to the notes.

I liken it to how a guitar sounds with a fresh set of strings that have only just been put on, there is this almost resonant bright overtone to the sound.....I have another Artist 2619 that has exactly the same set of passive pick-ups as the active AR4000 and they are chalk and cheese....just my 2p worth [;)]

PMan



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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: sybersitizen on March 12, 2012, 12:47:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

I liken it to how a guitar sounds with a fresh set of strings that have only just been put on, there is this almost resonant bright overtone to the sound...

I was going to mention that earlier, but forgot. I play my strings literally for years unless they break. The sound of old strings just seems to work for my purposes. Thus I may never hear fine nuances of the 'fresh string' variety.

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 12, 2012, 02:21:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

maybe it will be this weekend before I have a fully blown, all singing, all dancing Fly on steroids.......can't wait [:)]


Ha ha, a new Fly model is born - "The Steroid Fly"

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: mountaindewaddict on March 12, 2012, 04:49:03 PM
Parkerman, what about this switch?

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Mini-DPDT-Slide-Switch-ON-ON_p_1187.html

should only stick out of the backplate a bit, but I don't know if it will work for your purpose.

Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe, Gretsch 5129, Way Huge Pedals, Egnater amps, other stuff...
God Bless!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 12, 2012, 04:56:50 PM
You can get the same sort of slide switch from your local RadioShack store, too. (at least the ones where I live have them)

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 13, 2012, 05:43:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mountaindewaddict

Parkerman, what about this switch?

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Mini-DPDT-Slide-Switch-ON-ON_p_1187.html

should only stick out of the backplate a bit, but I don't know if it will work for your purpose.

Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe, Gretsch 5129, Way Huge Pedals, Egnater amps, other stuff...
God Bless!




I am afraid not this is only a 2 pole slide switch, it needs to be a 4 pole and have 12 solder lugs on the back and this one only has 6, so 2 of these would do the job [;)] but thank you for chiming in with a suggestion Casey, greatly appreciated [:)]

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 13, 2012, 05:46:22 PM
Oh darn, forget my comment about the switch being available at RadioShack! [:I]

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 13, 2012, 06:37:27 PM
Paul you are getting toooooo excited about the "Steroid Fly" mate.......calm down.......calm down [:D]

To be honest I would really like to use a 4 pole Slide switch fixed to the back of the cavity cover, but need one with fixing tabs, so keep looking guys [:)]

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on March 13, 2012, 08:50:00 PM
Parkerman---Until you find that slide switch,

http://www.marvac.com/detail.aspx?ID=22950    Yeah, It is pretty bulky and kind of clumbsy, but this vendor just might have the slide.

Come to thinking of it, I did have some slide switches on my Fender Jaguar when I was a Kid. I think the Jaguar and the Jazzmaster are still made.

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 13, 2012, 10:41:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

Paul you are getting toooooo excited about the "Steroid Fly" mate.......calm down.......calm down [:D]

To be honest I would really like to use a 4 pole Slide switch fixed to the back of the cavity cover, but need one with fixing tabs, so keep looking guys [:)]

PMan



Ha ha, yeah what can I say? I'm a diehard Parker man! [:D]

I've never seen a four pole slide switch before. In fact I've never even seen one that was more than two poles. But I haven't looked for anything like that either. [:I]

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on March 14, 2012, 03:45:43 AM
Could this slide switch fit the bill?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pcs-DC-50V-0-3A-4P2T-ON-ON-Positions-Slide-Switch-/390398391132?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae58eb35c#ht_1931wt_912

It has 12 contacts and mounting holes.

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 14, 2012, 05:04:08 AM
Tectonix you have hit the jackpot, perfect [:)] that is a 4 pole 2 way On-On Slide switch and yes it has mountiung holes, sadly he is not offering a BIN or listed that he has more than one, I will mail the guy and see what he has in stock............nice score Tectonix [;)]

EDIT: This auction is for a pack of 10x pieces......[:D] happy PMan.......I will try to win the 10 switches and if you want one then pay for carriage and it is yours [;)]

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 14, 2012, 09:02:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tectonix

Could this slide switch fit the bill?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pcs-DC-50V-0-3A-4P2T-ON-ON-Positions-Slide-Switch-/390398391132?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae58eb35c#ht_1931wt_912

It has 12 contacts and mounting holes.


Cool, that's good know there is such an animal. Who knows, I may need one of these strange beasts one day! [8D]

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: mountaindewaddict on March 14, 2012, 09:29:43 AM
Parkerman, I've been thinking about bypassing the preamp for the mags on my 2007 refined Deluxe, so if you win, put me down for one of those switches.  Thanks.

Casey

Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe, Gretsch 5129, Way Huge Pedals, Egnater amps, other stuff...
God Bless!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 14, 2012, 09:54:32 AM
Casey I have not seen the circuit for the refined Fly, the mods I have listed here are for the Pre-Ref Fly only, however if someone could mail me the circuit or post it here then I will have a look at it, but please appreciate I could not endorse any mods I make as I do not have a refined Fly to check them out with, but it may be a similar circuit topology to the original hopefully [;)]

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on March 14, 2012, 10:29:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

Tectonix you have hit the jackpot, perfect [:)] that is a 4 pole 2 way On-On Slide switch and yes it has mountiung holes, sadly he is not offering a BIN or listed that he has more than one, I will mail the guy and see what he has in stock............nice score Tectonix [;)]

EDIT: This auction is for a pack of 10x pieces......[:D] happy PMan.......I will try to win the 10 switches and if you want one then pay for carriage and it is yours [;)]

PMan



Glad I nailed it Pman and thanks for your generosity. Well, you know, I do have a refined Fly also and if I wouldn't be acting too much like the swine at the trough, I would like one for each. Although they are pretty cheap (and good quality, we hope), I do want to pay for anything you might send my way. Actually, we all should have made hefty contributions to your retirement account for all the expertise you have passed to us[:D][8D].  I will keep checking the post or email me through my profile info.

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: mountaindewaddict on March 14, 2012, 11:29:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

Casey I have not seen the circuit for the refined Fly, the mods I have listed here are for the Pre-Ref Fly only, however if someone could mail me the circuit or post it here then I will have a look at it, but please appreciate I could not endorse any mods I make as I do not have a refined Fly to check them out with, but it may be a similar circuit topology to the original hopefully [;)]

PMan


I understand.  Is this the schematic you need?
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh225/mountaindewaddict/ParkerFlySchematic.jpg)


Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe, Gretsch 5129, Way Huge Pedals, Egnater amps, other stuff...
God Bless!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 14, 2012, 11:35:55 AM
Casey that is the circuit I have been using for the pre-refined Fly, if this is also the refined Fly circuit then the mods apply to both pre-refined and Refined

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: sybersitizen on March 14, 2012, 11:38:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mountaindewaddict

Is this the schematic you need?

I'm pretty sure it's not. The part labeled Mono/Stereo Push Switch is a dead giveaway - the refined models don't have it.

'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 14, 2012, 11:51:28 AM
That schematic Casey attached above is for the pre-refined Fly. I've never seen a schematic for the PowerChip pop up anywhere yet.

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: mountaindewaddict on March 14, 2012, 12:49:57 PM
Thanks guys. I just grabbed it a while back w/out really looking at it.  I have a file on my computer where I collect all Parker-related stuff whether it applies to my gear or not.

Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe, Gretsch 5129, Way Huge Pedals, Egnater amps, other stuff...
God Bless!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 14, 2012, 02:14:19 PM
Ooooooops [:(][:(][:(] never mind, I am sure someone will reverse engineer it soon....... [;)]
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 14, 2012, 03:25:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

Ooooooops [:(][:(][:(] never mind, I am sure someone will reverse engineer it soon....... [;)]



I'm still waiting for someone to do that. No luck so far.

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: mountaindewaddict on March 14, 2012, 04:43:59 PM
I would imagine if you were willing to send your Refined Fly to Parker to get the new Ghost system, you could specify that you wanted a slider switch on the backplate so the mags can either bypass the preamp or run through it.  

I can't imagine needing to change that mid-song, so it makes the most sense (to me) to embed that switch in the backplate.  Plus, the guitar still looks stock.

Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe, Gretsch 5129, Way Huge Pedals, Egnater amps, other stuff...
God Bless!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on March 14, 2012, 06:21:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mountaindewaddict
 

I can't imagine needing to change that mid-song, so it makes the most sense (to me) to embed that switch in the backplate.  Plus, the guitar still looks stock.

Casey




I agree that it would be the optimum spot in a perfect set-up.[^]

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 14, 2012, 07:05:50 PM
OK, OK, OK guys I get the drift buy the slide switches, well I have placed my bid so please so not go and bid over it, as I said I will mail out to you for the cost of shipping from the UK to the US, I could have asked David Cameron to pop them in his pockets when he went on his little flight on Air Force 1 [:D].........oh David Cameron is our PM BTW[V]

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 15, 2012, 05:47:49 AM
Guys I have the 4 pole MIni-Toggle switches [:)] I only ordered 2 of these and may find time tonight to do the Passive/Active changeover mods just as proof of concept.........here's hoping [;)]

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: billy on March 15, 2012, 07:29:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mountaindewaddict

Parkerman, I've been thinking about bypassing the preamp for the mags on my 2007 refined Deluxe, so if you win, put me down for one of those switches.  Thanks.

Casey

Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe, Gretsch 5129, Way Huge Pedals, Egnater amps, other stuff...
God Bless!




I don't have a refined fly either, and forget the specifics, but is there some reason Alex's diagram wouldn't work for you?

http://forums.parkerguitars.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4865

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious that makes it not relevant.

Btw, I think there's a way to add stereo/mono without too much effort on both bypassed mag versions.  Will think a little more on it when I do the mod here...
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 15, 2012, 08:55:18 AM
Just to clarify:

One of the main differences between the pre-refined Fly and the refined Fly which uses the Fishman "PowerChip" is how the stereo/mono switch works. On the pre-refined Fly, it's a manual physical switch you have to activate yourself. On the refined Fly, the PowerChip uses an IC chip to automatically switch to mono or stereo depending on what type of cord you plug into the jack.

The other difference is that on the refined Fly, there is no tone control for the piezo pickups. So if you want one in a pre-refined Fly that you stuck a PowerChip in, you'll have to find a way to add a tone control (which would make use of the forth unused hole in the guitar).

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: billy on March 15, 2012, 09:11:29 AM
yeah, thanks for the clarification Paul.  

My understanding is that Alex's mod will be mono, so if you wanted a switch, you could probably do that.  

He also mentions how to add a tone control to piezos a little further down.
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 15, 2012, 09:17:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by billy

yeah, thanks for the clarification Paul.  

My understanding is that Alex's mod will be mono, so if you wanted a switch, you could probably do that.  


My understanding of that diagram is that it converts it to full time stereo mode and completely bypasses the "smart switch" IC chip.

EDIT: So yeah, I guess you could add a summing switch if you wanted to.

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 15, 2012, 09:24:04 AM
Hi Billy

I have checked out the thread that you posted the link too and there is no schematic of the pre-amp there, it is only the wiring flow chart, so of little use sadly, I need the pre-amp schematic for a refined if I am to offer the same mod.

The Mono Mode will always be an issue to mix in the active Piezo and the Passive HB's without going into a summing amp stage and then this makes the HB's active again. With both the HB's and Piezo being active it is not a problem because the active treated pup ouputs will both go to a common summing amp stage as in the original circuit where OP1 is the summing amp section where the 2 signals are combined.

The reason it mixes OK in the stereo mode is simply because each output is kept isolated from the other and have their own input channel on a valve amplifier, if we shorted the Active Piezo and Passive HB outputs togehter as it effectively does in the mono mode then the you would not hear the HB's as indeed is the case in this instance.
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: billy on March 15, 2012, 09:40:18 AM
Thanks guys- totally forgot about the summing thing, agree.

As for doing the same mod on the refined pcb, I think in the refined case, you don't actually need to since you can just swap around some wires.  

Since you don't have many wires on the pre-ref, you're kind of forced into doing it on the pcb.
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 15, 2012, 06:59:48 PM
Hi Guys.......good news it all works as expected [:D] the active mode for both Piezo and HB's works exactly as original, and the Passive HB's are exactly as it was when I removed the 4 components, I have now cut the tracks and wired the 4 pole Mini-Toggle switch in place.

There is one major issue as far as I am concerned and that is when switching fromt Passive HB's to Active HB's, it does make a thump through your prized Celestions [:(!]

The difference between active HB's and Passive HB's is very noticable IMHO, that zing thing (active) and warmth (passive) but it is quite late here in the UK and I can't get the overdrive into #11 to check out the real sound character differences, so will check this tomorrow.

Paul M any thoughts on this switch changeover thump, and a possible solution please ???

That's it for tonight guys I am hitting the sack [|)]

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 15, 2012, 08:34:02 PM
Maybe you could try using a 1M pulldown resistor (to ground) on the output to minimize the pop, kind of like is commonly done on a DIY stompbox. I'm not sure there is a solution for the problem, but that is the first thing I would try.

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 16, 2012, 07:53:25 AM
OK Paul I will check this out tonight, I will also give the active Vs passive HB's option a good bake off now I can turn up to 11 and check the tone correctly. I do think the character will remain pretty much the same, I just think that the tone will take on a warmer, richer feel when used passively, well this is the feeling I had for the brief time I compared them last night.....

I think this switch over thump would be minimized if I turn down the Master Level pot to zero prior to switching to active HB's, I believe it is the net result of switching the 4 components back into circuit while also activating the active HB's, so turning down the Master Level control should prevent the thump IMHO.

I have just seen that I have won the 10x Slide switches on e-bay, so as soon as they arrive I will do a nice neat job of the mod using these switches and document it with images of the wiring etc.

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 16, 2012, 10:13:36 AM
Yeah turning the master down works too, but it's one more thing to have to think about. I myself would prefer to just flip a switch and go.

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Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 16, 2012, 10:59:32 AM
Paul I think I know why the thing thumps, look at the circuit 'Mountaindewaddict' has posted on page 3, bottom right there are the 2 output circuits, observe the 100K and 100nF (I think) cap in parallel with the output, I think these are here to reduce the switch over from active piezo to active HB's, on the Passive HB's I have removed these from the circuit temporarily for the passive HB operation, yes they do get switched back into circuit at the same time as they are changed back to active HB, maybe I need to leave the 100K and 100nF in circuit permenantly ?? any thoughts Paul??

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 16, 2012, 06:46:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

Paul I think I know why the thing thumps, look at the circuit 'Mountaindewaddict' has posted on page 3, bottom right there are the 2 output circuits, observe the 100K and 100nF (I think) cap in parallel with the output, I think these are here to reduce the switch over from active piezo to active HB's, on the Passive HB's I have removed these from the circuit temporarily for the passive HB operation, yes they do get switched back into circuit at the same time as they are changed back to active HB, maybe I need to leave the 100K and 100nF in circuit permenantly ?? any thoughts Paul??


Yeah, that might be. It sounds like there is either the need for a DC blocking cap somewhere or to somehow lessen the voltage offset between active and non-active modes (or maybe both?)

I think it's just going to be a trial and error kind of thing until you find something that works problem free. Or at least as close to problem free as possible.

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 17, 2012, 05:35:39 PM
Well guys today I have finally had a chance to dial in some serious numbers on the amp, and I had my BK Butler Tube Driver up front, well as I was expecting with the HB's now in passive mode the amp no longer screaches, it sings, seriously if you ever wanted proof of how different the Active Vs Passive tone sounds then crank up the front end with a nice overdrive pedal. One of my major critisisms of the Fly, in fact the only critisism was the sound when being overdriven, it just sounds thin, screachy, no balls, and lacking in real emotion IMHO, now with the HB's in passive we are back with depth, warmth, full bodied tones that simply sing, the sustain has that beautiful decay while still retaining a purity whereas in active mode the sustain tends to break up and sound tizzy, I am 100% convinced that even the biggest critique on here would agree that the difference is quite overwhelming when the signal is overdriven.

Back to the clean sound, yes it is still different, I guess my first impression was that it sounded duller, less lively, but it is not, it has just lost that active zing and new string sound, it is warmer and richer, however the timbral character is exactly the same, it is just the tone that has changed, this is really hard to describe, it is like removing 3 to 4 notches off the treble pot of the amp but even that doesn't explain it in depth, it is just a more organic sound, woody as opposed to electronic, softer rather than dynamic, warmer rather than sterile........that'll do, I am running out of adjectives [;)]

Now I am not knocking the active HB sound, I love it, but it can get a little tiring and fatiguing especially when overdriven, there is a place for both sounds Passive and Active, each has their pros and each have their cons, so for me this was a worthwhile project, just have to rid of this thump and we are home and dry, more to follow soon [:)]

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on March 30, 2012, 05:01:21 AM
Still waiting for the 4 pole slide switches I won on e-bay, so nothing new to report yet, however I have made a new battery compartment cover plate and fitted the mini-toggle switch in place on my Fly just to see how it all goes together and if it is a suitable position and personally I quite like this arrangement, I do feel cutting a slot into the plastic cavity cover will not be a reversible solution should you ever decide to sell your treasured Fly whereas the battery compartment cover is quite simple to forge a simple alloy cover to accomodate the toggle switch and it's easily reversible.

Still enjoying the HB's in the passive mode, and it does add a whole new dimension to the sound pallete especially when used with the Piezo in stereo mode through 2 channels of an amp........loving it [:D]

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: billy on March 30, 2012, 10:18:47 AM
Still going to try this soon, had some car trouble keeping me busy!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on April 23, 2012, 04:33:04 PM
Hi all, it has been a really bad 4 weeks for me since I last posted here......I have had H1N1 Swine Flu, and yes I do not jest, it was the most horrifying body invasion I have ever experienced in my life, with a temperature of 39.9C I was rushed into the local hospital from the office, they done several blood tests, chest x-ray, urine sample test and hung me up on a saline drip for 3.5hours, told I had a throat viral infection and sent home to recover and told to drink plenty of fluids, well the next 3 days I slept constantly going in and out of semi conciousness, during my few waking moments I felt like a zombie, confusion, aches in every joint of my body, no energy whatsoever and no concentration or ability to focus on anything. after a week of suffering this kind of existance I decided to visit my GP where I was told the resuts from the hospital tests showed that I contracted H1N1 Swine Flu and she immediately laid me off work for 3 weeks telling me to rest, rest, rest, but with this virus you can do nothing more......I am on the mend but still feel very tired after a few hours being awake, and still not able to fully set my mind to anything too involved, but I am a lot better [:)]

On an even more negative note, I still have not recieved the 10x 4 Pole Slide Switches from the Hong Kong e-bay seller, I have been in a mail exchange and he is supposedly shipping another 10 pieces to me, so with a stong westerly wind and the sails set in the right direction I should see my boat come into harbour quite soon I guess.

Well that's been my life and I apologise for the delay in seeing this modification to completion, but will be on the case as soon as the switches arrive...

PMan
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on April 23, 2012, 04:42:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Parkerman

Hi all, it has been a really bad 4 weeks for me since I last posted here......I have had H1N1 Swine Flu, and yes I do not jest, it was the most horrifying body invasion I have ever experienced in my life, with a temperature of 39.9C I was rushed into the local hospital from the office, they done several blood tests, chest x-ray, urine sample test and hung me up on a saline drip for 3.5hours, told I had a throat viral infection and sent home to recover and told to drink plenty of fluids, well the next 3 days I slept constantly going in and out of semi conciousness, during my few waking moments I felt like a zombie, confusion, aches in every joint of my body, no energy whatsoever and no concentration or ability to focus on anything. after a week of suffering this kind of existance I decided to visit my GP where I was told the resuts from the hospital tests showed that I contracted H1N1 Swine Flu and she immediately laid me off work for 3 weeks telling me to rest, rest, rest, but with this virus you can do nothing more......I am on the mend but still feel very tired after a few hours being awake, and still not able to fully set my mind to anything too involved, but I am a lot better [:)]

On an even more negative note, I still have not recieved the 10x 4 Pole Slide Switches from the Hong Kong e-bay seller, I have been in a mail exchange and he is supposedly shipping another 10 pieces to me, so with a stong westerly wind and the sails set in the right direction I should see my boat come into harbour quite soon I guess.

Well that's been my life and I apologise for the delay in seeing this modification to completion, but will be on the case as soon as the switches arrive...

PMan

Don't wait for it to happen !


Gee, glad you're still with us! Take your time, we're not in that big of a hurry to hear back from you on that switch mod thing. [;)]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on April 23, 2012, 05:26:11 PM
Yes, glad you are recovering, Parkerman. As Paul states we are in no hurry. I did order those switches also and will keep my fingers crossed. Get well soon! [;)]

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: billy on April 24, 2012, 11:59:10 AM
get well soon!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on May 03, 2012, 03:49:39 PM
Parkerman---Just received my slide switches. Since I can't use 10, I will gladly send you a couple no charge if yours are hopelessly lost in Global transport. Email me or post, although sometimes international emails get filtered out.

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Parkerman on May 05, 2012, 11:44:00 AM
Hi Tectonix, thank you so much for the offer but pleased to report that my 10x Slide switches arrived yesterday (the second lot he shipped) no idea what happeded to the original 10 !!

So I will now modify the control cavity cover and show the wiring by way of images posted here, it may take 2 or 3 days but at least I can get on with finishing what I started now I am pretty much recovered and the switches have arrived [:)

Pman[:)][:)]
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on May 05, 2012, 05:41:13 PM
Good news about your health!

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on May 05, 2012, 10:40:59 PM
Tectonix:

You can delete your posts. Click on the little trash can icon on your posts.

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on May 05, 2012, 11:49:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy

Tectonix:

You can delete your posts. Click on the little trash can icon on your posts.




It was strange because the trash cans were not there earlier today. I will now clean up my mess.

I started out in life with nothing and still have most of it left!
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on May 06, 2012, 08:52:36 AM
Huh weird. Must have been some kind of glitch with the forum software.

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: bembamboo on May 25, 2012, 08:43:08 AM
fab topic!  there are true geniuses(?) here, in respective areas of expertise.

are the origional dimarzios designed "active" tonally, or are they similar to paf humbucks.  vaguely remember air norton discussions here but am no dimarzio expert.  

SO HOW TO THEY SOUND PURELY PASSIVE??????

Title: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Paul Marossy on May 25, 2012, 09:19:37 AM
They're not active pickups, they are passive pickups routed thru a preamp. Active pickups are usually low impedance, these pickups in the Fly aren't anything special other than being designed to Parker's specs.

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: bembamboo on June 15, 2012, 11:10:40 PM
Paul-I meant, if I can explain it...did the origional Dimarzio passive humbucker installed in the fly circa mid-90s, receive design changes by Dimarzio from say... a traditional style humbucker taking into consideration that the preamp was modifying pure passive tone?  I know these are not active humbucker pickups like EMG, Duncan ect. 

Elsewhere there is a recent post referring to the ceramic magnet with soft magnetic field, I think, and I remember old extensive threads, prior to the switch to 2d gen pups, that seemed to say Air Norton Dimarzios were the origional reference for Ken's pre-refined fly.

   
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: 908ssp on June 16, 2012, 08:34:29 AM
"The original Parker Fly bridge pickup was based on the Tone ZoneĀ®""The original Parker Fly neck pickup was based on the Air NortonTM."

Both pickups were changed only structurally to fit the Fly not to suit the preamp. The preamp was meant to be transparent and for the most part it is.

Both pickups were later designed specifically for the Fly as Larry DiMarzio was a friend and fan of the Fly. So it was made to be warmer and more powerful again NOT to suit the preamp.

The biggest improvement in running the magnetic pickups solely passive is the way they interact with effects pedals and old tube amplifiers. IMO
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: bembamboo on June 21, 2012, 10:16:37 PM
thank you both!
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: russ5254 on April 22, 2013, 03:26:25 AM
hi Parkerman,
I am keen to get the mags on my pre-refined Fly to be passive while still maintaining the ability to use the  blend switch and master volume.
Your mods have been very inspiring and technically impressive!

I have been looking at the schematic for quite a while too and was wondering whether the following changes is feasible to make the mags passive.

1. disconnect a7 from Q5 - as you suggested the trace to cut.
2. connect a7 directly to a1 to bypass the BJTs & C3 to get to the master volume.
3. break the trace at pin1 (out1 of Op1) & pin2 of MC33179P so that b8 is disconnected from the op-amp.

You probably may have thought of this before and I would appreciate your expert opinion.
Somehow my gut feel tells me there is still a flaw in this method but unfortunately i don't know what it is...  :(

I would also really appreciate any feedback on this method from the experts in this community.
I am trying to do minimal invasion and soldering on the PCB.. thanks!!! :D
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Germ on November 24, 2013, 05:05:55 AM
Hello, I'm new to the board, my question is quite similar to what has been discussed here, please let me know if I should open a new thread.

I own a '94 hardtail Parker Fly and I'm tired of spending my time changing batteries. I feel like I'm using the screwdriver as often as the pick  :)  The battery doesn't last 100 hours on my guitar, perhaps something is wrong with the preamp.

I want to know if I can convert my Fly to an all-passive guitar. I want the direct sound of mag pups. Keeping the piezo (passive) would be the preferred option. Is there something I need to know before removing the preamp ? I have limited soldering skills (i.e. I can fix your usual passive wiring -pots and switches - but NOT a circuit board).
Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Tectonix on November 26, 2013, 02:25:42 PM
Germ.  What you want is in here. I don't have time to research it for you but if you go thru the postings it shows up in the middle of discussions. Try searching posts from 908ssp. That is Alex and he has done it many times over.  ;D
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: bkihara on December 27, 2013, 05:55:17 PM
I may have missed something in the thread, but does Parkerman's original mod eliminate the need for a battery, if I only want to use the HB's?

Thanks
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Germ on January 04, 2014, 09:09:46 AM
Germ.  What you want is in here. I don't have time to research it for you but if you go thru the postings it shows up in the middle of discussions. Try searching posts from 908ssp. That is Alex and he has done it many times over.  ;D

Sorry, I've searched through several topics but couldn't find an answer to my question.  :-\
I want to get rid of the active part of the electronics. I have DiMarzios and I'd like to keep the piezo option (is it usable without the onboard preamp ?)
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: 908ssp on January 07, 2014, 08:59:54 AM
.....I have DiMarzios and I'd like to keep the piezo option (is it usable without the onboard preamp ?)

Yes and no. You can run the piezos with an outboard preamp say a peddle preamp that way it is connected to a wallwart and you won't have to change batteries but you won't have the blend option. I never use the blend so that doesn't bother me. I have also had good luck with the new style on board preamp for the piezos and the passive hook up of the magnetic pickups.

http://forums.parkerguitars.com/index.php?topic=4865.0
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: juanjomugo on November 25, 2014, 12:23:18 PM
Hello.

I have read the post several times but do not know if I understand correctly.
If I do this mod on my fly classic 1998 I get this:
1. Select either active or passive pickups with a switch (can be this switch ubicated in the hole of master volume?)
2. Use combination with piezo pickups or alone but only if I plug the guitar two amplificiadores with y cable.

Where the battery is located finally? someone else did this mod? have photos and audios result?

I am asking for my guitar in this link
http://forums.parkerguitars.com/index.php/topic,15475.0.html

Thanks to all
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: billy on May 14, 2018, 03:45:20 PM
Hey everyone-

my friend Alberto from Spain was interested in this mod, and sent me two pcbs to modify for him.

I no longer have a pre-refined fly and can't check function beyond an ohm-meter, but overall it wasn't too hard to do.  There was never a post regarding the switching, and I think I managed to do it right.  I won't really know until Alberto gets the pcbs back and re-installs them though. :o

(https://s20.postimg.cc/ei1c1frx9/active_to_passive_pcb.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/c0pku680p/)

Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: vjmanzo on May 14, 2018, 07:15:48 PM
Nice work!
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: Big Swifty on May 15, 2018, 07:50:04 AM
Yeah nice... this is Humbucker active/passive (pre-amp bypass) yes?

B.S.
Title: Re: Active to Passive HB's on a Fly now working
Post by: billy on May 15, 2018, 04:35:35 PM
yeah, active to passive, thanks for the nice comments.  Happy to answer whatever other questions I can.