The Parker Guitars Forum

General Discussion => TECH TALK => Topic started by: shiftykey on January 10, 2017, 06:34:51 AM

Title: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: shiftykey on January 10, 2017, 06:34:51 AM
Hello All,

I have a nice Parker Fly and I absolutely love it. But where the neck back paint meets the fretboard, that edge (Where binding exists on some guitars), there are some paint chips. Seems about 6" or so of the paint is pretty loose from about the 1st to 7th fret, in addition to those 3 little chips.

I'm really hoping that someone may be able to recommend someone that specializes in difficult finish repairs. Especially if they've worked on Parker Fly's before and are aware of the difficulties on adhesives with carbon materials.

Any ideas, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


Pics:

https://goo.gl/photos/1uM2wp2uqHBj4XuK6

https://goo.gl/photos/jftUc55XXLA2TESq8

https://goo.gl/photos/Q1Sjb4P4JWrAjkgX7

https://goo.gl/photos/ijSvM4ib5nELZLCo6
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: billy on January 10, 2017, 11:56:55 AM
Wow!  Not sure what's going on there.  Was there some kind of impact to the neck, got dropped, etc?

Is there any sign of the fretboard lifting along that edge?

Shazrock used to be a Parker production painter and now has her own shop. 

However, the turnaround time is not quick.

From what I see and your description, unfortunately this isn't just a quick touch up job for some chipped paint. 
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: shiftykey on January 10, 2017, 12:43:58 PM
No impact, sadly. and i don't believe the fretboard is lifting. There is no note shifting etc.. i think the adhesion was just faulty.

I kept the chips, just in case. But yeah, really stinks.

Who is this person that use to work there? Do you have their contact details? I don't need a fast turnaround, honestly. I just want it fixed by an expert. Not by some local yokel type place.

Thanks so much!
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: billy on January 10, 2017, 01:37:11 PM
Good news on the fretboard.

no affiliation, but they've done some great work others have posted on the site.  She can restore logos, side markers, serial #s, etc.  Basically back to factory specs. 

http://www.shazrockpaint.com/

I think you're right to avoid going somewhere local with this one.  The silver lining is if they need to repaint, you can pick a custom color for the backside.
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: shiftykey on January 10, 2017, 06:34:57 PM
Awesome. Thank you so much for the info
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: TinMachine on January 11, 2017, 09:07:18 AM
Probably looking at over $500 and over a year wait with shazrock
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: shiftykey on January 11, 2017, 09:31:33 AM
Whoa.... over a year? I was thinking like 90 days or something, lol
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: Noodler on January 11, 2017, 11:49:48 AM
Probably looking at over $500 and over a year wait with shazrock

Since you always chime in with negative comments regarding Sharon's business, I just have to ask "what exactly happened to you in dealing with Sharon that makes you feel impelled to post in every thread about using Sharon for guitar paint?"
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: shiftykey on January 11, 2017, 03:00:06 PM
Well i emailed them anyway. I know to look into things regardless of what one person says.

It's all good on my side.
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: Mr303 on January 11, 2017, 05:09:34 PM
Well i emailed them anyway. I know to look into things regardless of what one person says.

It's all good on my side.


Shiftykey,

Let the forum know what and when you hear back from them, I'm interested since I just saw a '93 hardtail project that's affordable and for sale.

A couple years back it was a 3-4 month wait but you could hold on and not ship until a week or two before it went in for a repair estimate.

** Here's my Shazrock hint of the day
I emailed them because sometimes I hit the volume knob while playing wanting to replace the pot, Lisa suggested using a small rubber band wrapped around the post to add friction. (She said orthodontic bands work the best and I haven't sent it in yet.)
Cheers!
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: alber.t on January 11, 2017, 08:31:06 PM
Hello, I've repared some parkers necks in the past. The neck of a PArker guitar (Fly model) are very special. It use carbon. You cold make a good work if you use black nail polish. Try to buy a good black polish. You can use black nitro too. This is my secret:
Try painting by layers. Slowly wait until each layer is dry before adding any more. You have to get the paint to protrude a little from the neck. Once it has dried and the paint stands out use this trick. Take a quality kitchen paper and wipe it a little on removing enamel without acetone.  Lightly drier the kitchen blotting paper until the layers go down . If you are careful and have talent you will look great. The best thing is that you can try as many times as you want because it is reversible. Another more professional trick but more difficult way is to use cyanoacrylate. But it is better for a professional to do it. Good luck

P.S The PArker Fly Spreme is the best guitar ever built. I love it.

Albert
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: TinMachine on January 11, 2017, 10:00:36 PM
Probably looking at over $500 and over a year wait with shazrock

Since you always chime in with negative comments regarding Sharon's business, I just have to ask "what exactly happened to you in dealing with Sharon that makes you feel impelled to post in every thread about using Sharon for guitar paint?"
just being realistic.  Sharon does amazing work and is highly recommended.  I don't have the time or money for her. That's all. No bad experience. 
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: TinMachine on January 11, 2017, 10:08:56 PM
The OP is looking for a cheap work around.  Nail Polish on the pig as it were. I had a 94 hard tail,  same issue,  it was from someone playing with finger rings on. Tore up the edge of the fretboard.  A repaint is basically the only way to get around this. $500 is probably not even realistic.  The original finish needs to be removed,  which takes time (and therefore more money) and then a fresh spray. My guess is about $1400. Unless they can spray over,  but it will still require major preparation.  It just isn't cheap. I have not seen many prices listed here on the forum as to what Sharon's work runs. Probably because most people cannot afford it. Nothing wrong with that.  I'd encourage the OP to go ahead and get the repair estimate and let everyone know what it is going to cost. Sharon and Lisa used to be fairly active here on the site,  but it's been years since they posted anything. 
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: shiftykey on January 12, 2017, 12:30:04 AM
I'm still waiting for a response. We'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: alber.t on January 12, 2017, 03:36:29 AM
The OP is looking for a cheap work around.  Nail Polish on the pig as it were. I had a 94 hard tail,  same issue,  it was from someone playing with finger rings on. Tore up the edge of the fretboard.  A repaint is basically the only way to get around this. $500 is probably not even realistic.  The original finish needs to be removed,  which takes time (and therefore more money) and then a fresh spray. My guess is about $1400. Unless they can spray over,  but it will still require major preparation.  It just isn't cheap. I have not seen many prices listed here on the forum as to what Sharon's work runs. Probably because most people cannot afford it. Nothing wrong with that.  I'd encourage the OP to go ahead and get the repair estimate and let everyone know what it is going to cost. Sharon and Lisa used to be fairly active here on the site,  but it's been years since they posted anything.


Hello TinMAchine. I think that if you use well the nail polish  adding asciugasmalto you can get great results. Besides you never take risks to spoil the guitar because everything is reversible and very cheap.
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: Patzag on January 12, 2017, 07:18:08 AM
The OP is looking for a cheap work around.  Nail Polish on the pig as it were. I had a 94 hard tail,  same issue,  it was from someone playing with finger rings on. Tore up the edge of the fretboard.  A repaint is basically the only way to get around this. $500 is probably not even realistic.  The original finish needs to be removed,  which takes time (and therefore more money) and then a fresh spray. My guess is about $1400. Unless they can spray over,  but it will still require major preparation.  It just isn't cheap. I have not seen many prices listed here on the forum as to what Sharon's work runs. Probably because most people cannot afford it. Nothing wrong with that.  I'd encourage the OP to go ahead and get the repair estimate and let everyone know what it is going to cost. Sharon and Lisa used to be fairly active here on the site,  but it's been years since they posted anything. 

I had two jobs done by Sharron.  A complete (UL) refinish was $700.00.  A smaller handling was about $100.00.  Your prices are so off the chart as to be ridiculous and it really starts to sound like you've got some personal agenda with Sharron.   
She's in high demand because she's possibly the best.  Her work is impeccable.  That's possibly worth some wait time.

@shiftkey - just call.  Lisa or Sharron will answer and let you know price and wait time.
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: billy on January 12, 2017, 12:08:53 PM
Hello, I've repared some parkers necks in the past. The neck of a PArker guitar (Fly model) are very special. It use carbon. You cold make a good work if you use black nail polish. Try to buy a good black polish. You can use black nitro too. This is my secret:
Try painting by layers. Slowly wait until each layer is dry before adding any more. You have to get the paint to protrude a little from the neck. Once it has dried and the paint stands out use this trick. Take a quality kitchen paper and wipe it a little on removing enamel without acetone.  Lightly drier the kitchen blotting paper until the layers go down . If you are careful and have talent you will look great. The best thing is that you can try as many times as you want because it is reversible. Another more professional trick but more difficult way is to use cyanoacrylate. But it is better for a professional to do it. Good luck

P.S The PArker Fly Spreme is the best guitar ever built. I love it.

Albert

This is probably just fine for a small chip repair, but there's quite a bit of paint missing.  Unfortunately it sounds like the bond between the carbon fiber and the paint is failing along the entire neck. 

Also, nail polish is typically enamel. The finish on a fly is urethane. You won't get a great bond, and it won't harden the way urethane will, so you can't level and polish.  It could easily become a sticky mess which will be hard to remove.

As to why the paint is failing, it may be there was a cleaning step that got overlooked after the carbon was applied and baked, or maybe the baking was rushed somehow so there wasn't a full epoxy cure before paint.  (Pure speculation on my part here.)

It was nice of you to post, but IMHO, nail polish is a very temporary fix for the OP, and may even complicate a refinish later on.  I'd personally avoid it, but glad you're happy with your results.

Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: TinMachine on January 12, 2017, 12:36:00 PM
The OP is looking for a cheap work around.  Nail Polish on the pig as it were. I had a 94 hard tail,  same issue,  it was from someone playing with finger rings on. Tore up the edge of the fretboard.  A repaint is basically the only way to get around this. $500 is probably not even realistic.  The original finish needs to be removed,  which takes time (and therefore more money) and then a fresh spray. My guess is about $1400. Unless they can spray over,  but it will still require major preparation.  It just isn't cheap. I have not seen many prices listed here on the forum as to what Sharon's work runs. Probably because most people cannot afford it. Nothing wrong with that.  I'd encourage the OP to go ahead and get the repair estimate and let everyone know what it is going to cost. Sharon and Lisa used to be fairly active here on the site,  but it's been years since they posted anything. 

I had two jobs done by Sharron.  A complete (UL) refinish was $700.00.  A smaller handling was about $100.00.  Your prices are so off the chart as to be ridiculous and it really starts to sound like you've got some personal agenda with Sharron.   
She's in high demand because she's possibly the best.  Her work is impeccable.  That's possibly worth some wait time.

@shiftkey - just call.  Lisa or Sharron will answer and let you know price and wait time.
Patz- I've never used Sharon. I have only sung her praises based on work shown here on the forum. She may possibly be the very best for Parker work. I thank you for posting a price with your response.  Keep in mind though that the OP probably paid $1400 for the guitar,  meaning even $700 is half of what they paid originally.  Most people are probably not going to go for that. I had a natural fly that needed redone,  and was quoted $1400 from a well respected and talented local painter. Just depends on the work that needs to be done. The idea here is the OP is looking for a cheap way out. Unfortunately there is no such thing with their situation. 
I'll repeat myself again a fourth time and say that I have never dealt with Sharon and I have the utmost respect for her work.  I'd love to have her do a guitar,  but don't have the time to wait nor the funds to complete.  If you or anyone else has both time and money,  I say she is the go to painter.
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: alber.t on January 12, 2017, 07:49:35 PM
Hello, I've repared some parkers necks in the past. The neck of a PArker guitar (Fly model) are very special. It use carbon. You cold make a good work if you use black nail polish. Try to buy a good black polish. You can use black nitro too. This is my secret:
Try painting by layers. Slowly wait until each layer is dry before adding any more. You have to get the paint to protrude a little from the neck. Once it has dried and the paint stands out use this trick. Take a quality kitchen paper and wipe it a little on removing enamel without acetone.  Lightly drier the kitchen blotting paper until the layers go down . If you are careful and have talent you will look great. The best thing is that you can try as many times as you want because it is reversible. Another more professional trick but more difficult way is to use cyanoacrylate. But it is better for a professional to do it. Good luck

P.S The PArker Fly Spreme is the best guitar ever built. I love it.

Albert

This is probably just fine for a small chip repair, but there's quite a bit of paint missing.  Unfortunately it sounds like the bond between the carbon fiber and the paint is failing along the entire neck. 

Also, nail polish is typically enamel. The finish on a fly is urethane. You won't get a great bond, and it won't harden the way urethane will, so you can't level and polish.  It could easily become a sticky mess which will be hard to remove.

As to why the paint is failing, it may be there was a cleaning step that got overlooked after the carbon was applied and baked, or maybe the baking was rushed somehow so there wasn't a full epoxy cure before paint.  (Pure speculation on my part here.)

It was nice of you to post, but IMHO, nail polish is a very temporary fix for the OP, and may even complicate a refinish later on.  I'd personally avoid it, but glad you're happy with your results.

I always mix the nail polish with a nail strengthener and create a very sturdy blend. It does not sink. And the best thing is that you do not have to sand. You adjust using remove glaze with care. I have repaired serious damage to parker neks, and painting has never gone away. Neither has sunk. Although this is a special case I think I could try. Since there are no risks and it is very cheap.

Best regards
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: billy on January 17, 2017, 11:05:08 AM
I would like to endorse this but unfortunately, knowing what I know about paint, I can't recommend it, especially in this case.

There's a few risks, which I described before.  The main risk is that it becomes difficult to strip, and then doesn't allow a proper bonding surface for new paint.

My experience is that mixing enamels with urethanes or lacquers ends badly, even if it seems to work initially.  I'm glad you are happy with your results though!

Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: Slo101 on January 18, 2017, 05:27:30 PM
I'm still waiting for a response. We'll see what happens.

Whatever turnaround time you are quoted will probably not be accurate, so keep that in mind. Response times to emails will also be slow.
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: TinMachine on January 18, 2017, 08:04:30 PM
Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?  The world is waiting for the definitive response from Shazrock...
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: shiftykey on June 30, 2017, 12:59:59 PM
I'm really disappointed that nobody got back to me. I even called again two weeks ago and left another message.

I have no idea what's going on there, but i'm willing to pay a hefty sum to get this work done. It's ridiculous that nobody gets back to you.

So i then reached out to some other repair places i found on google, nobody wants to touch the thing.  SOOOO Frustrating. Particularly because the guy that sold it to me knew about it and i missed the signs it was going to peel early on.

Grrrrrr.
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: jb63 on June 30, 2017, 03:50:41 PM
I've found that getting some paint on these is tough, too, but you CAN always sell them, like what happened to you. I bought one for about $1400 (which cost more when I finally payed it off!) that I knew had neck-paint problems and all I had to do was find someone to make it all smooth again but it has been impossible since the custom shop closed down. I've shown it to a few guitar painters in my town, and few auto detailers and all the guitar shows. No one thinks they can make it look like parker did when it started out.

http://forums.parkerguitars.com/index.php/topic,15889.msg139208.html#msg139208

But as long as you have a fretboard that is on correctly, and the peeling paint is not on the join between the fretboard and the neck, I think you can get an auto/fiberglass guy to give it a shot. You will need to remove all the electronics, first and, oh, hell...

I think be more patient with Sharon and keep trying!
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: ZemanG2 on July 03, 2017, 12:38:53 PM
I actually sanded mine down then used a spray can. LOTS of sanding. The nut area I messed up but will redo later. And I had to make my own fret markers. You can see where I missed a spot on the head stock. But I used lacquer because that was the only rootbeer I could find. I have tried too many times to put the picture in here, just go to the links
https://ibb.co/hgv5sv
https://ibb.co/cNaukF
https://ibb.co/hYOEkF
https://ibb.co/kyNJCv
Title: Re: Fly Supreme neck paint peeling
Post by: That_is_a_Knoife on November 09, 2017, 02:09:11 AM
The OP is looking for a cheap work around.  Nail Polish on the pig as it were. I had a 94 hard tail,  same issue,  it was from someone playing with finger rings on. Tore up the edge of the fretboard.  A repaint is basically the only way to get around this. $500 is probably not even realistic.  The original finish needs to be removed,  which takes time (and therefore more money) and then a fresh spray. My guess is about $1400. Unless they can spray over,  but it will still require major preparation.  It just isn't cheap. I have not seen many prices listed here on the forum as to what Sharon's work runs. Probably because most people cannot afford it. Nothing wrong with that.  I'd encourage the OP to go ahead and get the repair estimate and let everyone know what it is going to cost. Sharon and Lisa used to be fairly active here on the site,  but it's been years since they posted anything.


Hello TinMAchine. I think that if you use well the nail polish  adding asciugasmalto you can get great results. Besides you never take risks to spoil the guitar because everything is reversible and very cheap.

With asciuga smalto you mean enamel drier?
I'd also try black CA glue from loctite, the 480 could work