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Parker Models => FLY GUITARS => Topic started by: vjmanzo on January 29, 2018, 02:47:33 PM

Title: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on January 29, 2018, 02:47:33 PM
Hi all,

I finally played a pre-refined Fly for the first time and noticed that the Dimarzio pickup lettering is different than my other two Dimarzio-loaded Flys, which are also different.

I've read this forum post (http://forums.parkerguitars.com/index.php/topic,7797.0.html), which explains that the Gen 1 pickups were "non italisized and block lettered" Dimarzio logo and Gen 2 pickups had the "slanted italisized" Dimarzio logo. So, imagine my confusion when I now noticed that the pre-refined fly is a different sort of "non italisized and block lettered" (pictured below).

(http://www.vjmanzo.com/clients/forums/parker/Fly_Pickup_Variants.jpg)

Can anyone shed some light on this? I'll revise this post accordingly if someone can match the Dimarzio pickup-type to the three images above.
I would bet that image 1 (far left) is the Gen 1 Dimarzio Pickup, and image 3 (far right) is the Gen 2 Dimarzio pickup. Can anyone confirm? Is the middle image also a "Gen 2"?


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Confirmed pickup type for above image (from left to right):
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Image 1: Gen 1 pickups
Image 2: Gen 2 pickups
Image 3: Gen 2 pickups
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: sybersitizen on January 29, 2018, 03:20:56 PM
One easy explanation is that previous owners sometimes swap out pickups.

Also, there apparently have been minor cosmetic changes even among original factory pickups.

For example, you'll notice the logo placement on the 2008 Deluxe in your photo is not quite the same as the Gen2 pickups on my unmodified 2001 Deluxe even though the size is the same:

(http://thesybersite.com/parker/Gen2-Logo.jpg)
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on January 29, 2018, 03:28:16 PM
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I'd considered that one of these might have been a swap of some kind.

Thank you for confirming what a the Gen 2 pickups look like and the slight variations used over time; I've modified the original post.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on January 29, 2018, 03:29:52 PM
Would anyone be able to confirm if image 1 and image 2 are variants of the same Gen 1 pickup, or which of them more closely resembles a confirmed Gen 1 pickup?
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: Mossman on January 29, 2018, 04:29:26 PM
That's very interesting... FWIW I've not seen the large non-italicized version in a Fly before - my three Flys all look like pics 1 or 3. 
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on January 29, 2018, 05:14:07 PM
Thanks for the input! So, just to confirm: your pre-refined pickups look like the first image? Presumably those are Gen 1s.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: Mossman on January 29, 2018, 05:20:04 PM
yes for me - my 1994 looks like the first photo.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on January 29, 2018, 05:49:01 PM
Okay thank you. I’m going to update the original post.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on January 29, 2018, 05:54:44 PM
If anyone has any thoughts as to what the middle image pickup might be, please let me know.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: marcwormjim on January 29, 2018, 11:51:33 PM
Are you willing to look at the baseplate? Also, let’s not forget Dimarzio making Fly versions of other pickups to order.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on January 29, 2018, 11:55:04 PM
Yes, I'd considered that these might be any number of Dimarzio pickups. Would looking at the baseplate help get a sense of which pickups they are? I'm a bit out of my league here, so I appreciate all the help.

The good news is that I really do like the sound of these unknown pickups :)
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: marcwormjim on January 30, 2018, 04:30:34 AM
I propose it just on the off-chance that their product number is there. The baseplate material/color may shine a light, as well.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: mmmmgtr on January 30, 2018, 05:37:44 AM
I am pretty sure that the small logo is Gen 1 and the other 2 are both Gen 2. However it's pretty easy to confirm if you can measure the DC resistance of the coils and see which ones match and you'll find out. I've owned all 3 and as I recall when I checked them,  this is how they lined up. I don't believe there were anymore then the 2 stock variations but that doesn't include potential customized pickups people order from the Dimarzio. Remember,  these are all now used guitars so customizations are possible.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: mmmmgtr on January 30, 2018, 06:03:21 AM
 There have also been pickups customized by board members - 908ssp (Alex) and others.  These include coil swaps, magnet swaps,  etc.... So YMMV!
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on January 30, 2018, 07:40:20 AM
Thanks very much for the helpful information. My biggest question now is if the middle image logo is, in fact, just another Gen 2 set of pickups or if it signifies a different model altogether. For example, if someone was to say “Gen 2 pickups were issued for three months with the original image logo and then switched to the italicized logo” that would solve part of the mystery.

My suspicion is also that the middle and third image are both Gen 2, but I’m just basing that on the timbral qualities.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: Mossman on January 30, 2018, 08:20:50 AM
But the weird thing about your 2001 pup set is that the logo is not a carry over from Gen 1 because it's larger... Although it's a longshot, you could pull one or both of the pups and see if there's any labelling on the back.  For many years DiMarzio offered a number of its pickups in Fly configuration.  Stock pups likely won't have anything on the back, but if they're aftermarket they might have been marked somehow.

You can also take off the backplate and look for signs of resoldering on the mag leads, which might also indicate an aftermarket swap at some stage.

Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on January 30, 2018, 09:23:58 AM
Good suggestion. Thanks for that.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: Mossman on January 30, 2018, 10:37:04 AM
Here's something interesting: The photo for this product listing on Sweetwater shows a Fly Pickup with the same logo as your #2: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/dimarzio-parker-fly-pickup

CEJ
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on January 30, 2018, 11:52:34 AM
 Wow – – the plot thickens LOL I’m going to send the link to Dimarzio and see if these are the same Gen 2  pick ups. Maybe the Gen 2 pickups that shipped to Parker for factory installs have a slightly different logo then these pickups (presumably also Gen 2) that were sold as replacement “swap it out yourself“ pickups. 

 Thank you for the link and helpful information.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: Mossman on January 30, 2018, 02:35:13 PM
Yeah the MF ad was very sparse on details.  I'm assuming that the pickup in the picture was a PWHP1 or 2, because I don't think the Gen 1 were ever sold aftermarket. Maybe DiMarzio can enlighten.

Don't forget to report back!
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on January 30, 2018, 02:51:33 PM
 I heard back from Dimarzio and they said:

“It isn’t likely that it’s Gen 2, but the only way to ID the actual model is to have a look at the model number stamped on the baseplate.”
 
..so I’ll probably take a look at the baseplates whenever I bring this guitar in for a setup. Thanks, all, for the help. I will certainly report back once I do find out what these pickups are.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: Mossman on January 30, 2018, 05:08:51 PM
Agh.  I can't bear the suspense...
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on March 04, 2018, 09:27:18 AM
Hi everyone,

I took a look at the underside of these pickups and I can now confirm that the pickups in the middle picture above are Gen 2 Dimarzio pickups. So, it seems that Gen 2 Dimarzio pickups did/do have two different logos on them.

(http://www.vjmanzo.com/clients/forums/parker/Dimarzio_Gen2_pickups.jpg)

These pickups were in a refined Fly Classic that I bought used, so, I assume that they came installed in the guitar. I've updated the original post with this information. Thanks again, everyone, for the help.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: Mossman on March 04, 2018, 02:11:25 PM
Thanks for following up with that info - more for the archives, and now we have to stop telling people "if the logo's italic, they're gen 2, if they're not, they're Gen1".  I agree that they're probably original - if it's a Refined, it would have come with Gen 2.  But maybe, just maybe, a previous owner had swapped out for Gen 1s or some other, and later he or another owner decided to put it back to original using after market Gen 2 (some of which we know were sold with non-italic script).  We might never know for sure, but you could check for signs of resoldering in the rear cavity.

Or you could run the fingerprint that's visible in your photo through INTERPOL...

The good news is that if you sell the guitar you can hype the "coveted and rare 'Non-italic script' GEN 2 pickups".  Should be worth another hundred to a collector.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on March 04, 2018, 02:50:53 PM
haha! Next, on a very special “Parker Fly” episode of “Unsolved Mysteries”, we’ll investigate the case of the  non-italic Gen 2 pickups.  :D

I think your suspicion about the previous owner using different pickups and then switching to these afternarket Gen 2’s might be correct. More for the archives indeed!
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: billy on March 05, 2018, 04:53:18 PM
Could be Dimarzio decided to update their logo after introducing the gen 2 with the original logo.

Marketing people don't always make it easy on the rest of us.   ;)

Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on March 05, 2018, 05:32:14 PM
Exactly!  :D If the DiMarzio support person didn’t say explicitly “it isn’t likely” that this is a Gen2 set, then I would have just assumed it was a logo change.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: billy on March 06, 2018, 11:58:12 AM
I got curious and went back and looked at the original picture a little closer.  And the image from Syber's fly.

The logos look a lot to me like the kind of mark you get when a laser marks onto certain plastics, like ABS.  The newer logos are much cleaner, which means they either got a new laser, training, or new additives in the bobbin plastic, or all of the above. (Additives can be used in the plastic resin during molding when laser marking is a known.  Then the mark can change color, give an embossed look vs engraved, etc.)

If this is how they're marking their bobbins, then it would explain very easily the differences in logo appearance, size, and location.  These are settings that are easily changed by the operator, most likely using loose guidelines for size and font.

The first logo looks like it was made using a common sans-serif font.  The second looks like they used a vectorized version consistent with dimarzio branding, as well as the third. 

The cleaner appearance in the third image shows a better understanding of how to set the laser to get a cleaner mark.  They may have even invested in a location fixture beyond masking tape on the table.

Personally, I would not put much faith in their comment.  Years ago, I got fast accurate responses from Dimarzio support, but that has not been the case in my last few attempts. 

Consistency was probably all over the map.  If there is any, its likely coming only from the way Parker ordered pups, which would be in a few big lots, with each lot made in a few days and then shipped.

IMHO logo markings to ID vintages of pups is a good way to narrow things down, but based on what I've observed, maybe not the most accurate way.  Always possible someone swapped them too.  Really interesting to think about these little mysteries.

Going to look at my parts bin to see if I have any older dimarzio pups around to compare.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on March 06, 2018, 12:36:07 PM
Thanks, Billy, for the good observations. I'm also mindful that the original owner may have just purchased Gen2s and customized them as mmmmgtr mentioned.

I guess the only logical next step is for me to buy another Fly Classic with Gen2s from the same year and compare the sound! :D
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: mmmmgtr on March 06, 2018, 08:35:05 PM
gen2s are gen2s. I've had both logos. Ive also had the gen1s. My favorite pickups by far are the hybrids. Best sound in a pre-refined IMHO....


Best sounding Fly, again IMHO, The Stealth. The basswood body just has that something.... If I could find anther for sale,  If buy it in a second.
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on March 06, 2018, 08:52:01 PM
My favorite pickups by far are the hybrids.

Thanks mmmmgtr; would you mind saying a bit more about what you’re specifically referring to when you say “the hybrids”? Do just mean Fly pickup experimentation in general or is there a particular hybrid you happen to like?

Also, I would love to play a Stealth should I ever come across one in this lifetime!!  :D
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: mmmmgtr on March 07, 2018, 08:34:34 PM
If you search on this board,  you'll find a few threads on hybrid humbucker. One of the early contributors to this board,  Alex a.k.a. 908ssp, would pair up coils from different humbuckers. Sometimes swapping magnet types as well.  The difference in coil balance led to a more "open" sound. I have a few different versions,  but I think the most common was pairing up Gen1s and Gen2s. For example, take a bridge coil from a Gen1 and pair it with a bridge coil from a Gen2. do the same with the neck pickups.  Requires some electronics/ soldering skill...
Title: Re: Three Fly Dimarzio Pickup Variations
Post by: vjmanzo on March 07, 2018, 08:41:48 PM
Interesting—thanks for the overview. Would love to give pickups like that a try sometime.