The Parker Guitars Forum

General Discussion => GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: PeterMa on May 04, 2006, 11:12:30 PM

Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: PeterMa on May 04, 2006, 11:12:30 PM
When I worked for Guitar Center I remember receiving guitars, new in the box, $1200-$3500 American made instruments, directly from the factory, with major problems.  Gibsons with finish issues; pickups wired in reverse, frets popping off.  Fenders weren’t much better with; bowed necks beyond adjustment, blown truss rods, and again, finish issues.  Bad pots, machine heads that didn’t turn or hold the string properly were common on everything.

These guitars were all “hand crafted” by American luthiers and demanded a high price.  Out of 10 Les Pauls that came in I could find at least one issue with 9 of them.  The same with high end Fenders.  These instruments were created in factories that were long established and had a high production output.

Which brings me up to my point:  In some ways this Parker Forum is a fishbowl and I wonder if it is easy to loose perspective.  Not all people that purchase a Parker are on this forum.    Not all people that have positive experiences with their instruments post comments.  Yet a lot of energy is focused on the negative at times with the new Parker factory and Quality Control.  

Do I think that every guitar should be perfect when it leaves the factory, especially if I am shelling out 2-3K for it?  Absolutely.

Do I have an expectation that every guitar will be perfect?  Absolutely not.

As I see things, US Music bought a boutique guitar company with a semi-established name in guitar manufacturing with the goal of turning that good reputation into a money making business pursuit.  When the factory was in Wilmington, they were not making money.  Layoffs of the factory staff were common.  My guitar teacher worked at the Wilmington factory for 2 years and fielded the repair requests for over-seas distributors.  I even interviewed there once myself (consequently, I am not talking out of turn).  If you know about the various buy outs and buy backs prior to US Music you may agree that Parker showed signs of financial distress.  From what I heard and saw, Parker was in dire straits prior to the buyout.  

So from where I sit, US Music came in and SAVED Parker from closing.  Go ahead and read the press from before the buyout.  Read between the lines.  Parker was not going to be around much longer.  They were having a hard time selling their guitars because they were too different from a Fender or Gibson.  Guitar Center dropped them because the staff there just couldn’t sell the instruments & the smaller shops were mad because of the wait time for instruments so Parker lost some of these retailers as well.  

In order for US Music to make it a profitable business venture, they decided to move the Parker factory to Chicago.  Do you know what it is like to move a house full of stuff from one end of town to the other?  If you have a wife and kids you know that it is torture.  Imagine moving a factory half way across the country.  
Think of it: staff, machines, already built instruments, computers, wood, etc.  On top of that you are offering jobs to EVERYONE that works at the Wilmington facility a job in Chicago and trying to figure out all of the staffing issues.  In addition you are adding another factory to an already established manufacturing facility (Washburn, Eden, etc).

Guess what, a lot of the people that worked at the factory didn’t want to move to Chicago.  Who could blame them?  In turn, Parker looses a few of the cogs that put the guitars together.  So then they have to retrain people on instruments that they are not too familiar with building while integrating into a new factory while trying to get everything running (not necessarily running well)  Stupid stuff like where to put a machine and where to store inventory & how to get the right people to operate the factory becomes paramount.  

So US Music has committed to keeping Parker in the marketplace & from what I can see they want to do things right.  If you guys don’t know anything about the Washburn line, a few years ago it was not considered to be nearly as reputable as it is now.  What used to be an average guitar company is now turning out very high quality solid body guitars, both import & American instruments.  Check out their Idol or Pilson.  The same guy at US Music (I forget the Presidents name) that turned Washburn around has decided to work his magic on Parker to make the line more successful-this is good for us.

On top of it they are coming out with more models of the Parker FLY, they are doing what they can to make the import line more competitive and demand begins to increase.  It is exciting when new models come out.  There was a lot of buzz at NAMM with Belew.  So the PR guys at Parker are doing their jobs.   These new lines increase the amount of work that is required at the factory on every level, how could it not?  & since the PR guys are doing there job, we the consumer wants them, preferably sooner than later & without a doubt, absolutely perfect.

The cross that Parker has to bare is that the typical Parker consumer is absolutely nothing like the Fender or Gibson guy.   It’s great that there is a market for the instrument but Parker is held to a different standard and I think that is fair since we are not only buying into the guitar but also the technology behind the instrument.  We as Parker users have more demanding criteria by which we judge and choose guitars and many of us are non-traditional in what makes us happy.  A Fender & Gibson guy doesn’t have a criteria beyond looks and tone, we do.  

So am imperfect guitar arrives and a snowball of negativity towards the entire company starts to build and I don’t think that this is fair.  

It has been a few years since US Music came in and it will probably be a few more years until their tolerances get tightened.  We are talking about factories & factories take time to settle and maximize efficiency & productivity.

Bottom line: Parker is still producing high quality innovative guitars.  Not all of them are going to be perfect.  

I apologize for the long post and please understand that I am not trying to offend anyone be implying that their concerns are not valid.  It just seems that perspective gets lost here sometimes and I wanted to share my thoughts.


Peter in MA.
_____________________________________________________________
1998 Parker Fly Classic W RMC Peizo & Seymour Duncan JB & Jazz Pick-Ups
2001 Parker Fly Deluxe-Standard
Soon to be the proud owner of a P8E Acoustic
Takamine EF381 12 String/Ovation MCS 148 Mandolin/Yamaha AES 620/Charvel Acoustic.
Acoustic line is run through: Boss TU9/Boss Compressor Sustainer/Boss AD7 Acoustic Modeler/Ibanez Tube Screamer/Ernie Ball Volume Pedal/Boss Looping Station into a Crate CA-125D.  
Electric line is run through: a Mark Tremonti Wah, & Boss Octave Pedal Into a midi controlled Yamaha DG-80.
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: DrJeff on May 04, 2006, 11:52:51 PM
Well said, Peter. Any qualified Quality Engineer will tell you that you cannot inspect in quality. You have constantly refine the processes. Easy enough when you deal with standard mechanical product assembly, but a little tougher when a large part of your product is literally art.

The test of quality in a company has less to to with whether or not a defective product slips through final QC into the field, but how that company actively seeks to make it right when a field defect is discovered.

About a year ago, I bought my son his holy grail Gibson SG Standard. A weak place in the neck caused the headstock to nearly break off -- while the guitar was in the case. I talked with their service guy in Nashville and, once he understood the situation and, of course verified the SN, replaced it with a brand-new factory-fresh model. That experience gives me all the confidence to spend major bucks on a Gibson product. I know that, in the unlikely event of a serious defect, they will make me whole with an absulute minimum of hassle.

With the limited contact that I have personally had with the US Music folks, I have the same confidence. Now, about that scuff mark on my SA...'97 Nitefly SA
'78 Music Man Sabre II
'79 Music Man Sabre II
'83 Ovation Balladeer
Ampeg Reverberocket
Tech 21 Trademark 60
Crate CA125
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: jamrcat on May 05, 2006, 12:07:03 AM
Peter I appreciate your thoughts and feel you have made some important observations to consider.

Anita Bryant, I'm sure no one would know or remember her - she was a well known Christian artist back in the 70's that once said something that stuck with me. "It's not how well you do when things go right that makes you a professional, it's how well you respond when things go wrong that determine whether your a professional or not" I think that principal can apply to companies and industries as well. It's how a company responds when things go wrong that will determine whether they have lasting success or not! I'm hopeful things will go well for Parker in the future. Just a thought!

Parker P36 (Red)
Adamas II 1982
Washburn RS-10V 1987
Fender Tele USA 1998
Korg AX1500G Toneworks
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: ChicagoKid on May 05, 2006, 12:36:22 AM
Nice post Peter. Well said and oh yeah..... "boobs" (Inside Joke)[;)]

www.USCustomShop.com <coming soon>
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: 908ssp on May 05, 2006, 07:41:15 AM
Excellent post Peter. I think we have heard all this in bits and pieces before but your post brings it together in a very easy to understand manner. Thanks for taking the time to write this. It is easy to loose sight of the big picture when you focus on one thing at a time.

Like a splinter in your finger doesn't leave you much attention for a beautiful day. [^]

Alex

(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/BoogeClassicTN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/DSCN1321TN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/DeluxeCageWreckTN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/ParkerBassTN.jpg)
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: Jason Davis on May 05, 2006, 08:07:59 AM
Peter,
Thank you so very much for your post.  Honestly, it is a breath of fresh air to hear your comments.

For the rest of us on the board, he is dead on concerning the history of Parker.  I spoke with many of the people from the MA factory prior to the move to IL, and it is true that many could not make the commitment to relocate half-way across the country for various personal reasons.  With Parker Guitars being so different, it should be expected that the learning curve for both manufacturing and customer service is difficult.  When calling Customer Service, you are talking with a US Music representative...not a Parker Guitars rep.  In time, everyone will be up to speed with exactly how Parkers work.  Patience is difficult I know when you are not satisfied, but all will be fine in time.

And yes, Parker Guitars would have literally been out of business if US Music hadn't come in.  We're talking about a week difference between saving the company and its demise.  Speculation of an exorbanent amount of debt due to low sales and the cost to produce such a high quality instrument would probably be fair, but I can't confirm that.  If that was the case, a large company such as US Music would probably have the means to take that on if they believed in the product enough to save it.

We also need to understand that while Ken and Larry started the company, Ken did not own the company....even after Parker's break from Korg.  That is a big misconception.  Even in interviews with Ken, he never comes out and states "I own the company."

Being human nature, we tend to respond more easily when negative things happen.  Rarely does a teacher get praise from a parent for their impact on a child, but that same teacher surely gets an earful when he/she has done the child "wrong".  My wife's a teacher (and a good one at that), and the stories she comes home with always baffle me.

Listen guys:  I believe it is completely fair for an unhappy customer to come to the forum and express his displeasure.  Although the dealer from where the guitar is purchased is always the first step in having the situation remedied, the presence of John Page on the forum is great as he can give feedback on how to have the situation remedied beyond standard protocol.  It's also my guess that the ratio of satisfied vs unsatisfied customers has remained the same.  We're just looking at larger numbers as more guitars are being sold now than ever before.

I visited the US Music location about 1-2 weeks after the move from MA (which was done over a weekend), and I found it absolutely remarkable that they were in production.  I saw the new PM-10, PM-20, and unfinished prototypes of the Southern NiteFly and Mojo SingleCut literally on the workbench.  I have the pictures to prove it, and the fact that there was close to no stop in production and r&d during the move is amazing.

All this to say that I agree with Peter that expectations of perfect guitars to come out of the factory is ideal but not realistic.  That certainly does not change the unhappiness that one may feel if a guitar they purchase is flawed, and those feelings are completely justified.  Know, however, that the situation will be remedied.  With Parker's wait time for producing their guitars, it is also expected that their timeframe for repair would be somewhat lengthy.

No offense to anyone meant with my comments either.  Just food for thought.  It's all good.

Jason Davis
guitarist/songwriter/producer
www.JasonDavisMusic.com

Jason Davis is a Parker Guitars, Emerald Guitars, Randall Amplifiers, Mojo Strings, and BMG Music Publishing Artist.  Join Jason's MySpace community at www.myspace.com/JasonDavisMusic


custom Jason Davis Parker Fly (coming soon) - Parker Nitefly Mojo Flame (cherry burst) - Parker Fly Deluxe (antique gold) - modified PM-20 (sunburst) - modified PM-20G (gold top)
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: loumt123 on May 05, 2006, 11:42:48 AM
Just playing the devils advocate here, but...

"All this to say that I agree with Peter that expectations of perfect guitars to come out of the factory is ideal but not realistic."

    If I am not mistaken, John P said they can only dish out so many american made guitars because it takes time to make/finish them by hand...am I correct? If it takes this time, shouldn't it be done right...and extra 5 to 10 minutes to make sure you aren't screwing anything up. I mean, these are not imports here.  Gibson and Fender guitars are constantly in stock, and if i remember, correct me if im wrong, parker could not meet the demand for everyone (thats why music 123 and musicians friend etc etc have parkers on order...not in stock). Is there a reason the US made guitars being put out have flaws like poorly cut nuts, scratchy toggles, some BIG fit and finish problems, and possibly more defects?
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: jwrooker on May 05, 2006, 12:31:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

Just playing the devils advocate here, but...

"All this to say that I agree with Peter that expectations of perfect guitars to come out of the factory is ideal but not realistic."

    If I am not mistaken, John P said they can only dish out so many american made guitars because it takes time to make/finish them by hand...am I correct? If it takes this time, shouldn't it be done right...and extra 5 to 10 minutes to make sure you aren't screwing anything up. I mean, these are not imports here.  Gibson and Fender guitars are constantly in stock, and if i remember, correct me if im wrong, parker could not meet the demand for everyone (thats why music 123 and musicians friend etc etc have parkers on order...not in stock). Is there a reason the US made guitars being put out have flaws like poorly cut nuts, scratchy toggles, some BIG fit and finish problems, and possibly more defects?



I hope that these are falling into the growth pains associated with the move.  Time will tell.  I am getting a stronger feeling that the intent is certainly there and steps are being taken to correct problems.  

A year ago, I was saying..If my NiteFly M is this good, how good must a Fly Mojo be?  Since then, I've read of problems..ironically in this group sponsored by Parker, and I've personally had a Parker with problems.  Now, I'm not as sure as I was last year.

This is not to be negative, so please don't take it as such.  If I was not a Parker fan in some way, wny would I have over 300 posts hers?  Why would I waste my time?  I'm not looking for Parker to replace my Gibsons..I'll always love them, but I want to be a Parker supporter again.  I don't want surprises like the one I had when I sold my Southern NiteFly again.  (I don't want to go into details, so please don't ask..suffice it to say that I gained a ton of respect for John Page over this matter amd I owe a debt of gratitude to the buyer who has been very cool about the whole deal).  If I buy another Parker it will be a Fly Mojo, but I want to feel more secure in knowing that there is not some problem I'll have to deal with when I open the case.  Yeah, I know the "You don't have that feeling with G or F, do you?".  Well, I am three for three positives on G's in the last three years and only 1 of 2 in Parkers.  

I want to believe in Parker again..I really do.  Thanks for listeneing

John Rooker
Olde Pharte Guitar Hacker
Rochester, NY
--------------
Parker NiteFly M
Gibson ES335 Light Burst
Gibson SG Standard Natural Burst
Gibson ES135 Vintage Sundburst
Alvarez acoustic
Vox AD15VT, AD50VT & UltraSound AG50DS3
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: Jason Davis on May 05, 2006, 12:42:55 PM
'Sup Lou.  Hope all is well.

Saying that "...the US made guitars being put out have flaws..." would insinuate that ALL US-made Parkers have flaws.  I'm sure you didn't mean that, but I had to point it out.

All I can speak about is my experience, and I have never had a problem with any Parkers I have acquired...regardless of the owner of the company.  My pre-US Music models and my most recent guitars are all of the same quality, thus I am very happy with Parker's quality workmanship.

I understand your logic and thought process.  It would be curious to find out the % of guitars produced by a large manufacturer (insert brand here) that do not meet the quality expectations of its consumers and compare it to Parker.  I would guess that they would be quite comparable.  Parker cannot meet the demand as quickly as a larger company because there are far less workers, so I'm not sure that quality control relates to their ability to meet demand...???

I certainly do not claim to know the manufacturing process of a guitar (I can't change my own car's oil let along build anything...you should have seen me putting together my son's swingset!), but I would imagine that an "extra 5 to 10 minutes" would be relatively insignifant to the overall amount of time.  Everyone'e opinion here as welcome, but my guess is that a larger percentage of us have no clue about the guitar construction process, especially when it comes to building a Parker (perhaps those that do have experience in building guitars could chime in and help)!  Those of us without the experience really can't speak of how doing this or doing that in the construction process would enhance/detract from an instrument.  I guess all we can do is know what we want/like and make a purchase.  8^)

I firmly stand behind Parker and the quality of their instruments based on my experiences with them as well as other guitar manufactures.  I wouldn't be a part of their Artist roster if I didn't completely believe in them.  My wish is that everyone is more than content with their Parker purchase.  If not, then it will be remedied.  Of course the other alternative is to purchase an instrument by another manufacturer.  My personal experience tells me that there is nothing like a Parker in features, innovation, and quality.

Jason Davis
guitarist/songwriter/producer
www.JasonDavisMusic.com

Jason Davis is a Parker Guitars, Emerald Guitars, Randall Amplifiers, Mojo Strings, and BMG Music Publishing Artist.  Join Jason's MySpace community at www.myspace.com/JasonDavisMusic


custom Jason Davis Parker Fly (coming soon) - Parker Nitefly Mojo Flame (cherry burst) - Parker Fly Deluxe (antique gold) - modified PM-20 (sunburst) - modified PM-20G (gold top)
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: uburoibob on May 05, 2006, 07:23:25 PM
FWIW, I have only owned used Parkers. But I have been amazed at the consistency in fit, finish and quality of the instruments. I have owned dozens of new Gibsons and Fenders and Martins and (fill in the blank) and have never seen guitars that are as predictable (in a good way) as Parkers. Some of that is owed to Ken's design. And much is owed to the construction process. Honestly, I have found that this forum is emminently positive - especially compared to some I visit. I had my doubts about a larger company taking over Parker, but after reading posts by, and interracting with the US Music people, I am thrilled that they have Parker. Growing a brand is a long, time consuming process - especially one as radical as the Parker Brand. In any case, Peter, thanks for the post. You nailed so much. Everyone, thanks for the posts. I think Parker has a brilliant future. One that I will continue to try to be involved with! I love these guitars, and I'd love to be the ad agency that sells them.

Bob Martin

2000 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail  *  1999 Parker Fly Deluxe w/DiBurro Roland Mod Metallic Red  * 1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Emerald Green (thanks, Jim!) * 1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue (thanks, Darren!) •  Now on a signature reduction program! Just the Flies, maam. *  www.rtmadvertising.com
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: loumt123 on May 05, 2006, 08:07:38 PM
Yes I understand you too mr. davis i've just been compiling the data in my head for a little while now.

  from what ive gathered, post US music takeover parkers have gotten consistently worse...i've noticed a group of users whose instruments from the earlier part of the takeover have a finish comparable to that of the pre takeover. keep in mind i mean this in no offensive ways to parker..just an observation from my view. There is also someone here who has had 5 out of 5 flawed parkers, all from the post takeover if i'm not mistaken. There also seems to have been a change in the quality of parts. JohnP stated himself at one point in here something like them  trying to save a few cents here and there caused a ruckus. Also, could it be a possibility parker could have handpicked models to show you especially, since you are an artist for them? I mean, what company in their right mind would give one of their endorsers a faulty piece of equipment. This is simply what ive noticed. I, myself am completely content with my parker (pre US music takeover) and i'm sure that there are newer ones that are up to par, but i cant help but think it's getting consistently worse, you know? I mean, for someone to get 5 parkers, and all of them have defects? that says something. And for JohnP, I think he's an awesome parker rep, and he stands by the company to assure the consumer the guitars are still of top quality, but what if some of the luthiers or workers just aren't working up to par like we seem to think? It just seems to me one day someone randomly needs to select some guitars fresh out of the shop, examine them, and address the issues that could be there....kind of like a pop quiz.

    Now that being said I hope no one flips out on me[xx(] I mean everything in the kindest way possible, i'm not saying the company is awful or anything of course. I am still a loyal parker customer, but if chances are im going to get a faulty guitar, you can't help but wonder.
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: bno on May 05, 2006, 08:32:44 PM
I think people need another kind of reality check - go price out and "real" handcrafted guitar - or a good archtop, a Warwick bass or an Alembic.  $6K to $15K.  If you want a "good" Gibson its $5K.  If you want a flawless work of art that has been nurtured and personally attended to, order it through the custom shop, pay for your elevated expectations and get exactly what you want.  If you order a production unit, even under the highest level of quality assurance, a small percentage of units will be "up to spec" but not flawless.  

The point is that the Parker has produced and awful lot of darn near flawless production Flys so there is an inordinately high level of expectation that trickles down through the entire brand.

This is compounded by the current Parker distribution model which places new owners in the position of having ordered a guitar that they feel is "made to order" when in fact they are just getting a unit off the production line when its their turn.  You can't simply go into your local guitar store pick one out, check it over and take it home.  


Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: loumt123 on May 05, 2006, 09:08:27 PM
with all due respect, 5 out of 5 parkers isnt "a small percentage". and alot of the flaws aren't minor ones. and take into consideration someone who has a custom instrument made and it comes to them flawed. this wasnt just off the production line...it was custom made!

"The point is that the Parker has produced and awful lot of darn near flawless production Flys so there is an inordinately high level of expectation that trickles down through the entire brand." and this seems to be true for the past. recently it seems more and more problems keep arising. your right...not everything needs to be flawless, but when a single person buys 5 guitars, and all 5 are flawed, something is wrong. and when you get a USA made guitar, that's supposed to be thoroughly checked before it is shipped and you come to find the neck is beyond help, something is wrong. just read some of these issues...it's not what someone should come to expect when they purchase a guitar of this price and calibur.
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: uburoibob on May 06, 2006, 09:31:49 AM
I think somewhere there is some sort of numerical theory that puts your "5 out of 5" statement in perspective. In my 51 years, it seems that there are statistics like this that skew the mean. 5 out of 5 for one person does not mean that 100 percent of Parker guitars are bad. It just means that the one person is kind of like the guy who gets struck by lighting repeatedly. It's not a statistic that's meaningful. If so, then it would be just as valid to say that of the 8 Parker Flys I've owned, zero have been bad. Does the cancel out the 5 that this one person had?

I know that I have gone philosophical here, but having been in biz for most of my life, dealing with just about every aspect from manufacturing to distribution to marketing and advertising, there is always an anomaly which, if focused on exclusively, will absolutetly distort the bigger picture. But I think that the bigger picture is that the quality of Parker guitars is, for the most part (and I mean huge most part) the best in the biz. That's not saying that things don't go wrong and need to be corrected, but that's true of any business on any day of the week at any hour.

Parker quality, in my pretty vast experience, is and has been better than any of the bigger companies, such as Gibson, Fender, Guild, Martin, Taylor, Ibanez, and on down. The only buying experience I've had that has resulted in better guitars are ones I've commissioned from builders such as Steve Andersen and Steve Klein. And those guitars STARTED at $6500 each.

So, thanks Parker for making the best guitars around. I'll take your minor issues any day.

Bob Martin

2000 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail  *  1999 Parker Fly Deluxe w/DiBurro Roland Mod Metallic Red  * 1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Emerald Green (thanks, Jim!) * 1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue (thanks, Darren!) •  Now on a signature reduction program! Just the Flies, maam. *  www.rtmadvertising.com
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: Jason Davis on May 06, 2006, 09:48:59 AM
Just for clarification, the Parkers in my possession are from the Korg, post Korg/pre-US Music, and US Music eras.  Not all of these guitars were acquired as artist models, so the idea of Parker sending me models handpicked especially for me would not be an accurate assessment...especially if I did not acquire all of my Parkers directly through the company itself.

I can only speak for my direct experiences with the Parkers that I own.  That happens to be of practically every era in the company's existence, and they have all been excellent.  I cannot speak for anyone else's experiences, so I can't support or argue their opinions because I would then be providing second-hand information to the others.  This is in no way to discount any experiences good or bad that others may have had with their own instruments, but it's just not my experience.  

Lou, I can understand your concerns due to the info you have heard, but you will really not know for yourself until you actually own a US Music-owned Parker.  My bet is that you would come away as a satisfied customer.  And, no, I'm not sending you the money to buy one, so don't even ask.  8^)

The passion at which all of us speak here at the forum (no matter the position) is directly related to the passion we have for Parker Guitars.  I think that's great and is a testament to our love and respect for these instruments.

Now let's all leave our computers, grab one of our Parkers, and jam out.  Me?  I'll be playing...oh, the baby's crying so I gotta run.  You guys play some stuff for me, ok?  Some mid-to-late 70s Zappa would be great!



Jason Davis
guitarist/songwriter/producer
www.JasonDavisMusic.com

Jason Davis is a Parker Guitars, Emerald Guitars, Randall Amplifiers, Mojo Strings, and BMG Music Publishing Artist.  Join Jason's MySpace community at www.myspace.com/JasonDavisMusic


custom Jason Davis Parker Fly (coming soon) - Parker Nitefly Mojo Flame (cherry burst) - Parker Fly Deluxe (antique gold) - modified PM-20 (sunburst) - modified PM-20G (gold top)
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: loumt123 on May 06, 2006, 10:59:52 AM
don't get me wrong, im certainly not saying all are bad of course. But I mean to buy 5 guitars and find out all have a problem...thats a combination of really bad luck and some QC issues.
    At the beggining of the US music takeover it seemed that they were still using the high quality components they always have used...I noticed some more changes when the toggle switches changed (yes, i noticed something as stupid as that..no black ring around the base of the toggle, and for some people it seems like these new toggle switches are not as reliable as the old). But to me it just looks like some cost cutting to save a few pennies for US music, and it's hurting the quality of the guitar...and in the end i don't think it's really worth it.

   And I would love to own a brand, spankin' new parker, but it just seems theres been a 50 50 chance youre getting an awesome guitar, or a dud..and who wants to buy a guitar and find out its problematic...not a fun experience...ive been there with PLENTY of gear [V] And it's even more scary when you order a custom instrument, one of a kind, made especially for you, and it arrives with problems. We'll see how things shape up in the future.

  And Ps. Thanks for understanding and not thinking i'm bashing on parker, or complaining..because I'm not trying to do either of the two.
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: trap on May 06, 2006, 11:29:03 AM
peter, you brought up a point about the guitar center staff not being able to sell the guitars. i can't tell you how many times i've asked a salesman about a piece of equiptment only to be told ,"well, im not familiar with how that works". same thing with parkers,years ago i was interested in one,i'm talking 1995-96, and the salesman couldn't tell me how it worked. now imagine if he hooked me up to a p.a. and an amp and demonstrated what it could do? sold! i had to educate myself. thats not selling.i guess my point is that complicated things need to be explained to people to show their potential.as far as the other stuff goes,i still don't see why it's so difficult to get the final inspectors to do  the call as to whether or not the guitar is up to snuff.maybe it's harder than i think.
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: loumt123 on May 06, 2006, 09:04:27 PM
That's another one of my points. Are the people inspecting these guitars familiar with parkers? Or are faulty guitars both knowingly, and unknowingly being passed because the inspectors are not educated on the instrument, or just because they are lazy?
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: Jason Davis on May 06, 2006, 09:22:29 PM
Gil is an AMAZING Production Manager (and human being), so I would be a bit careful calling him or his staff uneducated or lazy.  Although you said you do not intend to bash, you may be flirting with it when making comments as this.

Just trying to keep you in check, Lou, based on comments concerning your intent in a previous post.

I'm pulling out of this conversation as 1) I'll be out of town for a week; and 2) we all have our own opinions and can go round and round on this topic to no avail.

Jason Davis
guitarist/songwriter/producer
www.JasonDavisMusic.com

Jason Davis is a Parker Guitars, Emerald Guitars, Randall Amplifiers, Mojo Strings, and BMG Music Publishing Artist.  Join Jason's MySpace community at www.myspace.com/JasonDavisMusic


custom Jason Davis Parker Fly (coming soon) - Parker Nitefly Mojo Flame (cherry burst) - Parker Fly Deluxe (antique gold) - modified PM-20 (sunburst) - modified PM-20G (gold top)
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: 908ssp on May 06, 2006, 09:36:17 PM
Hey JD in case you don't know you're argue with a 16 year old. Totally pointless in my book.[;)]

Alex

(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/BoogeClassicTN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/DSCN1321TN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/DeluxeCageWreckTN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/ParkerBassTN.jpg)
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: uburoibob on May 07, 2006, 12:57:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 908ssp

Hey JD in case you don't know you're argue with a 16 year old. Totally pointless in my book.[;)]


I had kinda guessed...

2000 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail  *  1999 Parker Fly Deluxe w/DiBurro Roland Mod Metallic Red  * 1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Emerald Green (thanks, Jim!) * 1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue (thanks, Darren!) •  Now on a signature reduction program! Just the Flies, maam. *  www.rtmadvertising.com
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: ChicagoKid on May 07, 2006, 02:35:21 AM
Regarding Lou "CKY". Anyone that has almost 1300 posts and has displayed this much passion and devotion deserves an equal amount of respect as the ol' timers. Who do you think is the future for Parker players? Having such a young man with such enthusiasm on here with that much passion towards the product is inspiring. The world is changing and kids are much smarter than they used to be. I don't care if he's 12... cut him some slack, please.

www.USCustomShop.com <coming soon>
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: jwrooker on May 07, 2006, 06:42:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ChicagoKid

Regarding Lou "CKY". Anyone that has almost 1300 posts and has displayed this much passion and devotion deserves an equal amount of respect as the ol' timers. Who do you think is the future for Parker players? Having such a young man with such enthusiasm on here with that much passion towards the product is inspiring. The world is changing and kids are much smarter than they used to be. I don't care if he's 12... cut him some slack, please.

www.USCustomShop.com <coming soon>



durn tootin'.  You're gonna sell more guitars to him and people like him than to oldies like me.  

To the others..don't discount his question.  I received a Southern NiteFly that I know never had a final instpection.  There is no way anyone professional should have allowed that guitar to leave the factory.  Not to insult anyone, just the honest truth.

John Rooker
Olde Pharte Guitar Hacker
Rochester, NY
--------------
Parker NiteFly M
Gibson ES335 Light Burst
Gibson SG Standard Natural Burst
Gibson ES135 Vintage Sundburst
Alvarez acoustic
Vox AD15VT, AD50VT & UltraSound AG50DS3
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: jwrooker on May 07, 2006, 07:09:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by uburoibob

quote:
Originally posted by 908ssp

Hey JD in case you don't know you're argue with a 16 year old. Totally pointless in my book.[;)]


I had kinda guessed...



Bob,
No offense, here..but you said you have never bought a new Parker.  So, you have had no experience on how they are being shipped from the factory, right?  My experience is limited but I have purchased new one NiteFly M and one Southern NiteFly.  The M was a 2002 and was/is perfection in setup and build quality.  The SNF was a 2005 and among the worst guitars I have ever received in terms of factory setup.  I think it it a huge mistake if a builder depends on the end reseller to do a respectable setup.  All guitars should leave the factory set up to a standard set of criteria.  That alone would keep a number of faulty ones from reaching the market.  

Just from reading this forum and from personal experience, I have to feel that these checks are not happening at the Parker factory these days.  I'm not trying to be a problem but nobody should discount what is being said here.

John Rooker
Olde Pharte Guitar Hacker
Rochester, NY
--------------
Parker NiteFly M
Gibson ES335 Light Burst
Gibson SG Standard Natural Burst
Gibson ES135 Vintage Sundburst
Alvarez acoustic
Vox AD15VT, AD50VT & UltraSound AG50DS3
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: loumt123 on May 07, 2006, 08:49:37 AM
Yes, maybe I am young, but I'm basing the discussion on truths. I did not know that the person who checks the guitars before they are checked was the head honcho. I was just simply questioning, since I did not know, if some of the quality control checkers I guess you call them, were educated on parkers. Sorry if I offended anyone. And I'm not trying to argue, just have a logical discussion. I've played out with my parker quite a few times, at jazz festivals, local gigs, and I'm always trying to promote the guitar..I get compliments on my tone and how sleek it looks. The point is I really want other people to get into parker because they make a great product..but if someone ever does decide to purchase one because i reccomended it...I don't want them to walk away dissapointed...I want them to play on the
same great instrument I am.  

All in all: I don't want to see quality control go down the chute..and if it means me rambling for that to happen...than I am sorry. Both young, and old, deserve a well setup guitar. If the instrument is being sold as a new instrument, I believe it should both look, and function as new. I have a great passion for both the instrument, and music and general, and I want everyone to be as satisfied as i have been [:D].

So once again sorry if I offended anyone as it was not my intent. I appreciate everyones views and outlooks here!
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: trap on May 07, 2006, 10:06:01 AM
your an old soul lou.
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: uburoibob on May 07, 2006, 12:17:50 PM
John, You are correct, I haven't bought a new Parker, but I've played many. In music stores. Ones friends have. And of course the ones at the NAMM show (which you would expect to be perfect - but it's amazing how many booths do NOT have perfect instruments).

I guess where I was going is that all of the new Parker Flies I've played have been set up close to perfect. Admittedly, I haven't played any NiteFlies. I am more interested in the Fly models. So I can't attest to those.

Lou, sorry if I dissed you. I have a 22 year old son, and am fresh on the heels of having to gotten a good grasp of the way a 16 year old mind works. Yeah you have a lot of posts. Some points you make are good, but all pretty much indicate your age. There is a saying that you will use one day many years from now: Hire a teenager while they still know EVERYTHING. It's pretty much right on the money.

But that said, you are passionate about your guitars, and it is always good to point out where things can be better. My point was that comparatively, Parker has it over the other companies in out-of-the-box quality - at least the new US Music Flies I've played, which I guess would number in the dozens.

Anyway, my opinion is that Parker is doing better than the rest, but it would seem that they are working to get back to being as good as they were before the move, based upon some folk's opinions.

Sound about right?

Bob

2000 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail  *  1999 Parker Fly Deluxe w/DiBurro Roland Mod Metallic Red  * 1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Emerald Green (thanks, Jim!) * 1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue (thanks, Darren!) •  Now on a signature reduction program! Just the Flies, maam. *  www.rtmadvertising.com
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: trap on May 07, 2006, 01:20:14 PM
so bob, you can grasp a 16 year olds mind? god bless ya,your a better man than i am.but one thing not any of us can do is to question lou's dedication to parker. i believe he and many of us who have critisized do so because we love the product and want it to succeed.but the real question is,when do i become an advanced member? i'll keep writing till i do cause now it's a quest!!!
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: jwrooker on May 07, 2006, 01:30:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by trap

so bob, you can grasp a 16 year olds mind? god bless ya,your a better man than i am.but one thing not any of us can do is to question lou's dedication to parker. i believe he and many of us who have critisized do so because we love the product and want it to succeed.but the real question is,when do i become an advanced member? i'll keep writing till i do cause now it's a quest!!!



I think it happens at 250 so you are almost there, Grasshopper. [8D]

Some of us can make critical statements and get them across without ruffling feathers.  Unfortunately, I've never been one of them.  What you said is perfect.  We are all concerned and I want a Fly Mojo, but I don't want problems, either.  Maybe by the end of the year..  



John Rooker
Olde Pharte Guitar Hacker
Rochester, NY
--------------
Parker NiteFly M
Gibson ES335 Light Burst
Gibson SG Standard Natural Burst
Gibson ES135 Vintage Sundburst
Alvarez acoustic
Vox AD15VT, AD50VT & UltraSound AG50DS3
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: trap on May 07, 2006, 02:40:43 PM
oh boy oh boy,thats 249!
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: jwrooker on May 07, 2006, 03:28:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by trap

oh boy oh boy,thats 249!



I feel a party coming on!

John Rooker
Olde Pharte Guitar Hacker
Rochester, NY
--------------
Parker NiteFly M
Gibson ES335 Light Burst
Gibson SG Standard Natural Burst
Gibson ES135 Vintage Sundburst
Alvarez acoustic
Vox AD15VT, AD50VT & UltraSound AG50DS3
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: bno on May 07, 2006, 09:27:47 PM
Lou - if more young men were like you, I think the world would be a better place.  You don't flame, you express yourself.  You always seem to cogently articulate valid arguments on a variety of subjects and you have always exposed an inquisitive mind.  Don't let these smelly old dinosaurs give you any grief.  There is a huge difference between your youthful exuberence and our pre-geriatric hubris.  

Let me go back to a point I was trying to make.  The Fly line seems to have been pretty consistent over its short life.  I don't own a new one, so I can't say I'm the voice of experience on the quality USM era instruments.  But, I do believe that the relatively uniform quality of the Fly line has set an unusually high bar for the Parker brand.  As Parker moves mainstream with other designs the Fly is still the standard bearer.  Its a very tough act to follow.  That's just my opinion.

Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: David Tomkins on May 08, 2006, 07:20:39 AM
part of the reason we chose a parker rather than the traditional design is because we are fussy and picky about what we will and won't put up with.  i agree some of the flaws sound worrying, but in general we are looking at parkers with a fine tooth comb.  do people do that with strats when they buy?
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: jwrooker on May 08, 2006, 07:43:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by David Tomkins

part of the reason we chose a parker rather than the traditional design is because we are fussy and picky about what we will and won't put up with.  i agree some of the flaws sound worrying, but in general we are looking at parkers with a fine tooth comb.  do people do that with strats when they buy?



I do that with everything I buy. I like a quality product.  Fender, Gibson, Parker..it doesn't matter.  I have to live with it and a stupid flaw bugs the heck out of me.  No guitar is perfect, my best guitars are fine by me but others may find a problem with one.  Do I hold Parker to a higher standard? Not at all.  I hold it to the same standard as my other guitars.

John Rooker
Olde Pharte Guitar Hacker
Rochester, NY
--------------
Parker NiteFly M
Gibson ES335 Light Burst
Gibson SG Standard Natural Burst
Gibson ES135 Vintage Sundburst
Alvarez acoustic
Vox AD15VT, AD50VT & UltraSound AG50DS3
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: jamrcat on May 08, 2006, 01:07:31 PM
Adding another 2 cents here: First penny: I've been taking my P-36 apart to do some mods and I am blown away at the quality of this Parker import. The pickup cavaties and quality of the unseen rivals and exceeds any guitar I've owned. And I've owned some of the best: Martin D-12, Gibson Goldtop 72, Ovation Legend & Adamas, BC Rich Seagull 82, oh thats enough on my list [:o)] etc. With all the hype about Parker problems I think I would be hesitant to order a new one, but I've yet to see a used one that wasn't outstanding in quality!

For my second penny: My thought is that some constructive criticism can't hurt Parker's reputation as it has been well established at this point, but it sure could help if the right people at Parker (aka:US Music) is listening![:D]

Parker P36 (Red)
Adamas II 1982
Washburn RS-10V 1987
Fender Tele USA 1998
Korg AX1500G Toneworks
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: loumt123 on May 11, 2006, 04:18:19 PM
thanks for the kind words!


ps. I should have some pics of the parker in action at a gig tonite! maybe i'll be able to post a few
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: trap on May 11, 2006, 07:11:11 PM
haven't seen you here in a while jim, does it have to do with what you just posted?
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: supersecretjim on May 11, 2006, 09:37:39 PM
No actually. I still love the Parkers that I currently have, & Im really hoping that Parker resolves the issues on my Nitefly Mojo when it gets back to them.

I usually do a little Parker forum workout on my lunch break, but havent taken lunch in a while. The body shop I work in is having record month after record month. So theres that, plus Im taking more time with my son who just turned one last week.

No hard feelings here.

Actually, Im kind of interested in marks southern nitefly, if hes looking to sell it.

I just cannot justify purchasing any more new Parkers while the ongoing 2 year transitional period continues. Just the luck of the draw maybe, but three USA duds in a row kind of killed my confidence.

James W
Uncompensated Parker endorser...

05 Parker Trans red burst Fly Mojo Single cut flame top, 05 Fly Mojo custom butterscotch burst, 10th Anniversary Fly Limited edition, Trans green Nitefly Mojo flame top, Nitefly-M, Kramer Proaxe & Nightswan, Shadow S-140 guitars x3, TC Electronic G-System, Peavey XXX Combo, Crate acoustic 112 combo & Powerblock, GK 250 ml stereo combo, Genz Benz cabs, Pod XT Live, more stuff...
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: supersecretjim on May 11, 2006, 11:02:01 PM
""I don't want surprises like the one I had when I sold my Southern NiteFly again. (I don't want to go into details, so please don't ask..suffice it to say that I gained a ton of respect for John Page over this matter amd I owe a debt of gratitude to the buyer who has been very cool about the whole deal)"

John, what exactly was the deal with that? What happened? Sorry, Ive gotta ask...Can you just give me/us the jist of it? Did you sell someone a guitar that had issues? Does it stem from Parkers awful warranty??? Non transferable & only one year to the original owner? Did Parker take care of it for the guy you sold it to? Am I on the right track?

Parker should take note from one of the best, if not THE best amplifier mfg out there - Soldano. Even if its not your type of sound, you cant argue with the quality or the warranty... on the flagship SLO-100 its lifetime transferrable. Thats confidence in your product. Its also made with the best components they can find. No compromise. No "lets save .89 cents on this pot to increase profit 5% over a years projected sales.

Thats a commitment to quality & the customer.

James W
Uncompensated Parker endorser...

05 Parker Trans red burst Fly Mojo Single cut flame top, 05 Fly Mojo custom butterscotch burst, 10th Anniversary Fly Limited edition, Trans green Nitefly Mojo flame top, Nitefly-M, Kramer Proaxe & Nightswan, Shadow S-140 guitars x3, TC Electronic G-System, Peavey XXX Combo, Crate acoustic 112 combo & Powerblock, GK 250 ml stereo combo, Genz Benz cabs, Pod XT Live, more stuff...
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: jwrooker on May 12, 2006, 07:00:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by supersecretjim


John, what exactly was the deal with that? What happened? Sorry, Ive gotta ask...Can you just give me/us the jist of it? Did you sell someone a guitar that had issues? Does it stem from Parkers awful warranty??? Non transferable & only one year to the original owner? Did Parker take care of it for the guy you sold it to? Am I on the right track?






Jim,

Email headed your way!

John Rooker
Olde Pharte Guitar Hacker
Rochester, NY
--------------
'02 Parker NiteFly M
Gibson ES335 Light Burst
Gibson SG Standard Natural Burst
Gibson ES135 Vintage Sundburst
Alvarez acoustic
Vox AD15VT, AD50VT & UltraSound AG50DS3
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: MFenkner on May 18, 2006, 05:48:41 PM
I am a person who is in the camp of having a negative exprience with  Parkers that I've recently bought (two out of three), though not a single gripe with my '98 Fly.  I've owned numerous guitars in my life and have also helped many friends and family members buy guitars.  Sure, I've seen a few bad guitars, but I've also been blown away by the build quality of guitars sold for $200 or less.  When a $200 guitar has a better build quality than a $4K Parker Artist, it's reason for alarm to me.

With my Mojo Single Cut, there were some setup issues and I understand that it might take a little while for the staff to get up to speed on the new bridge.  The issue with the "worn" tuners is Parker just accepting a bad batch of parts (which they continue to use); they should have sent them back to Sperzel.  The issue with the "tilt-a-whirl" knobs was just plain silly with people at first denying the problem, then saying that's they way they should be; at least Gil told me they knew of the problem and was looking into other knobs.  What frustrated me most during the experience was Parker's insistence that nothing was wrong and sending me on a wild goose chase for support.  For two weeks, I was put through the mill and spent more than 16 hours of personal time trying to get support until I finally reached Gil and he helped me out.  Now that I have the issues sorted out, I love the guitar.

On my Southern Nitefly, the QA was the best of the three.  Mainly all it needed was some setup and a couple of minor changes I could do myself.  No big deal here.

My Fly Artist was the biggest disappointment for me.  For the price of the guitar and the given claims on the build quality, I'm horrified by the quality of the guitar.  I feel certain that no special technicians as involved in the building or setup of the guitar, contrary to the claims made.  Disregarding the QC issues, the dead give-away was that the tension wheel was entirely setup wrong as if the person had never touched a Parker before.  I fixed all the setup problems but could never get over the other issues in the build quality, so it's now back at the factory.  I really hope it works out.  At the moment, my cynical joke is, "What's the difference between a Fly Artist and a Fly Deluxe?  An $1800 piece of spruce."  For the $1800, you should also get a little more attention to detail in the build.

I love Parker guitars and have "converted" many friends over the years.  When I've offered criticism, it has meant to be constructive.  But what has frustrated me is when I've escalated a problem, I'm treated as a nuisance and only after truly making a nuisance of myself have I gotten any attention.

I wish US Music the best of luck.  I want them to succeed.  If they'd take some basic advice from the forums - spend 5 minutes QC time on each guitar, spend a few more dollars on pots and switches, etc - it would make a world of difference in their products.

Mark

2005 Parker Fly Mojo Single Cut, 2005 Southern Nitefly, 1997 Parker Fly Deluxe, 2005 Ovation Collectors Edition, 2001 Fender American Strat, Takamine C-128 Classical, Peavey Generation Series 2, Fender Cyber-Twin, Line6 PodXT, Korg Oasys 88, Minimoog Voyager, & Sundry Implements
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: rt0412 on May 18, 2006, 06:12:42 PM
Is this a sign of Parker getting to be more like PRS and Gibson... overpriced?

quote:
Originally posted by MFenkner

Sure, I've seen a few bad guitars, but I've also been blown away by the build quality of guitars sold for $200 or less.  When a $200 guitar has a better build quality than a $4K Parker Artist, it's reason for alarm to me.

At the moment, my cynical joke is, "What's the difference between a Fly Artist and a Fly Deluxe?  An $1800 piece of spruce."  For the $1800, you should also get a little more attention to detail in the build.

I wish US Music the best of luck.  I want them to succeed.  If they'd take some basic advice from the forums - spend 5 minutes QC time on each guitar, spend a few more dollars on pots and switches, etc - it would make a world of difference in their products.

Mark

Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: Bill on May 18, 2006, 07:36:27 PM
Over Priced ?

http://www.stratcollector.com/corner/archives/000255.html

Custom '03 Hardtail Artist ; Fly Deluxe 2000; Gibson ES137; 1974 K.Yari DY85; Waterproof SchecterDisposable; Martin Backpacker/paddle combo
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: ChicagoKid on May 18, 2006, 08:45:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MFenkner


I wish US Music the best of luck.  I want them to succeed.  If they'd take some basic advice from the forums - spend 5 minutes QC time on each guitar, spend a few more dollars on pots and switches, etc - it would make a world of difference in their products.

Mark






If 5 minutes and a few dollars is all it would take for you and a few others to be happy... Then they are light years beyond PRS & Gibby. [:)]

www.USCustomShop.com <coming soon>
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: rt0412 on May 19, 2006, 01:01:26 AM
Are Parker guitars collector items? Some of those collectibles in the list (Clapton's Blackie, for example ) originally cost just a few hundred dollars... Clapton's Blackie Strat is not even an "original" Strat, it's a combination of parts cannibalised from other Strats.

"Right after I'd seen Steve Winwood playing his white Strat," begins Eric, "I was in Nashville and I went into this shop called Sho-Bud where they had stacks of Strats going for virtually nothing because they were so unfashionable and so unwanted.  I bought a big pile of them all for a song - they were really cheap, like three or $400 each - and I took them home and gave them out. I gave Steve one, I gave Pete Townshend one, I gave George Harrison one and I kept a few.  I made Blackie out of a group of them;  I took the pickups out of one, the scratchplate off another and the neck off another and I made my own guitar - a hybrid guitar that had all the best bits from all these Strats.

"I wore it out too.  Its pretty well inaccessible now - there's not much of the neck left.  It's worn away on either side and on the back with wear and tear.

"What makes Blackie unique for me is the fact that I made it!  It was one of the last guitars that I actually built myself, really.  Therefore it felt like it was invested with some kind of soul, you know"



quote:
Originally posted by Bill

Over Priced ?

http://www.stratcollector.com/corner/archives/000255.html

Custom '03 Hardtail Artist ; Fly Deluxe 2000; Gibson ES137; 1974 K.Yari DY85; Waterproof SchecterDisposable; Martin Backpacker/paddle combo

Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: loumt123 on May 19, 2006, 05:34:49 AM
5 more minutes, a few dollars, and a little more attention to detail really would make a world of difference. I would not mind paying an extra 50 dollars or so if it meant the guitar was made properly.
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: jwrooker on May 19, 2006, 05:58:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

5 more minutes, a few dollars, and a little more attention to detail really would make a world of difference. I would not mind paying an extra 50 dollars or so if it meant the guitar was made properly.



What I don't understand is this...I've been hearing that Washburn is turning out some very nice guitars these days.  They used to be known for some pretty poor workmanship.  Now, Parkers are being built in the same plant and we're hearing of a lot of quality problems.  What's up with all of this?  I know Parkers are very different guitars to build, but a lot of this is simply carelessness on the part of the guys building them.  QC checks are not being made, component parts are being downgraded.  There's a big emphasis on the imports with the new acoustic being imported and most of the new models this year being in the P series.  Are we seeing the end of the American Parker?  What's next, a Korean made Fly?  That might actually be an improvement.

John Rooker
Olde Pharte Guitar Hacker
Rochester, NY
--------------
'02 Parker NiteFly M
Gibson ES335 Light Burst
Gibson SG Standard Natural Burst
Gibson ES135 Vintage Sundburst
Alvarez acoustic
Vox AD15VT, AD50VT & UltraSound AG50DS3
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: MFenkner on May 19, 2006, 07:22:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jwrooker



What I don't understand is this...I've been hearing that Washburn is turning out some very nice guitars these days.  They used to be known for some pretty poor workmanship.  Now, Parkers are being built in the same plant and we're hearing of a lot of quality problems.  What's up with all of this?



One possible explanation is that US Music's current quality is better than what Washburn used to be, but worse than Parker used to be.  The older Parkers I have seen were immaculate, and it seems other people in the forum share the same opinion (I've yet to hear anyone say pre-US Music Parkers had QC issues.)

Another possible explanation is that the staff at US Music are still perfecting their skills in building Parker guitars.  I hope this is the real explanation.  I've only had a little contact with Gil, the production manager, but he seems to be a great guy who cares about his work.

Some people have said that the grumblings in this forum are the exception rather than the rule and only a small percentage of guitars have defects.  I would disagree; I think this has become enough of a reoccuring theme to be taken seriously.  I participate in a few other music product forums, namely Korg, Moog, and some other synth forums, and I rarely ever see anyone complain of a problem and there is never any threads complaining about overall quality.  One time I purchased a Korg Triton Studio with a defective keyboard; within a couple of days a tractor trailer showed up at my house with a brand new keyboard.  Because of my confidence in Korg, I didn't hesitate to pay $8K for the Oasys when it was released.

Mark

2005 Parker Fly Mojo Single Cut, 2005 Southern Nitefly, 1997 Parker Fly Deluxe, 2005 Ovation Collectors Edition, 2001 Fender American Strat, Takamine C-128 Classical, Peavey Generation Series 2, Fender Cyber-Twin, Line6 PodXT, Korg Oasys 88, Minimoog Voyager, & Sundry Implements
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: jwrooker on May 19, 2006, 08:29:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by MFenkner


One possible explanation is that US Music's current quality is better than what Washburn used to be, but worse than Parker used to be.  The older Parkers I have seen were immaculate, and it seems other people in the forum share the same opinion (I've yet to hear anyone say pre-US Music Parkers had QC issues.)

Another possible explanation is that the staff at US Music are still perfecting their skills in building Parker guitars.  I hope this is the real explanation.  I've only had a little contact with Gil, the production manager, but he seems to be a great guy who cares about his work.

Some people have said that the grumblings in this forum are the exception rather than the rule and only a small percentage of guitars have defects.  I would disagree; I think this has become enough of a reoccuring theme to be taken seriously.  I participate in a few other music product forums, namely Korg, Moog, and some other synth forums, and I rarely ever see anyone complain of a problem and there is never any threads complaining about overall quality.  One time I purchased a Korg Triton Studio with a defective keyboard; within a couple of days a tractor trailer showed up at my house with a brand new keyboard.  Because of my confidence in Korg, I didn't hesitate to pay $8K for the Oasys when it was released.




I agree about the Pre US Music Parkers.  I had alwys heard positive things about build quality and initial factory setups.  Even if a player decided that a Parker wasn't his thing, they alwaus said that they were extremely well made.  

I also think that the vast majority of loayl Parker fans in this formum own pre US Music Parkers.  I've only had limited experience with Parker.  My "02 NiteFly M, purchased in '03, arrived in perfect conditon.  The build quality was excellent and the initial setup was perfect.  I haven't made any adjustments to it.  The 05 Southern NiteFly, purchased in January of '06 was a different matter altogether.  

If it is simply a matter of the Washburn guys learning how to build the Parkers, maybe better days are ahead, but I do hate to see the cost cutting in cases and hardware.   I'd rather see them rasie the price of a Fly and keep the quality.

John Rooker
Olde Pharte Guitar Hacker
Rochester, NY
--------------
'02 Parker NiteFly M
Gibson ES335 Light Burst
Gibson SG Standard Natural Burst
Gibson ES135 Vintage Sundburst
Alvarez acoustic
Vox AD15VT, AD50VT & UltraSound AG50DS3
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: Paul Marossy on May 19, 2006, 09:31:55 AM
quote:
Do you know what it is like to move a house full of stuff from one end of town to the other? If you have a wife and kids you know that it is torture. Imagine moving a factory half way across the country.


I just moved about 90 days ago - wife, 4 year old daughter, 2 year old boy - (4) 28' U-Haul truck loads. What a pain!!

I don't know how I missed this thread, but it's an interesting one. You know, my Ibanez S470FM is even better than some Fenders I have played. When it comes to Gibson, well honestly, I have never played a Gibson that I liked. I guess you could say that I am a converted Strat-man. [:I]

Anyhow, just for the record, my Parker Mojo Nitefly is the best playing, best sounding, most versatile guitar that I have ever owned. The neck is perfect and the finish is flawless. I love the looks, the light weight, the design concept - well, everything! As I have said before, "Viva Parker Fly!" I know, I know, it sounds like I have Parker-colored glasses on, but I have played enough guitars over the years to know a high quality instrument when it is in my hands. [8D]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
www.DIYguitarist.com
Title: Quality Control & Parker
Post by: David Tomkins on May 22, 2006, 03:14:58 AM
i can sympathise with a lot of the complaints - i only have the worn tuner issue on mine.  
In England, we pay a higher premium for parkers and when people ask why i blew nearly 3 grand on a guitar that in their opinion is weird and a bit ugly, i want to be able to give them a simple answer -
why did i buy/pay it?  because it is the BEST.  I challenge my friends to find an scientific/objective fault with mine, and they rarely can - it all just boils down to their opinion.  Then they understand why i bought it.

i hope the QC issues don't take this 'it's the best' argument away from me.