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General Discussion => GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: loumt123 on May 27, 2007, 03:56:07 PM

Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: loumt123 on May 27, 2007, 03:56:07 PM
Mac or PC for recording or just general use?
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: lespaulreedsmith on May 27, 2007, 04:12:58 PM
pc for now... upgrading to Mac[:p]

I'm a loner... a rebel. There's things about me you couldn't know... things about me you SHOULDN'T know...
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: titanium667 on May 27, 2007, 04:56:28 PM
Mac, without a doubt![:D]

1999 Parker Fly Jazz for sale!
(http://homepage.mac.com/gtas/.Pictures/smallfly.jpg) (http://www.visitpittsburgh.com/images/db/static/Pens_300_small.jpg)
www.myspace.com/humankindness ¥ www.myspace.com/kidsafterdark
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: davecan on May 27, 2007, 07:10:08 PM
In many ways they are not as different as they used to be...Intel processors, etc.  But Windows Vista is a scary OS (muchos problemas, amigo), so if I was just starting out I'd opt for a Mac....


Git on the stick, Parker kin, and rustle us up some Southern Flies 'fore we whoop yo behinds! ~
"Cotton" Candido
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: jamrcat on May 27, 2007, 10:08:35 PM
Shuttle Music XPC all the way baby! No problemento's in two years! That is fantastic reliability for a Music based PC! [8D]

01' Parker Fly Classic "Natural" w/SD Black Backs (Thanks Jay)
93' Parker Fly Deluxe hardtail RP "Blackie" KP Signature (Thank You! Bob & Ken)
Fender Cyber Twin, Korg AX1500G, D-Tar Mama Bear, and a 2FlyBob (Thanks Paul!)

jamrcat
Butte, Montana
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: 908ssp on May 27, 2007, 10:16:40 PM
I have Vista in two machines with no problems. Windows is big target so they get shot at all the time. I have seen so many Mac failures over the years but nobody talks about it you'd think they are immune they aren't.

[^]

Alex

(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/BoogeClassicTN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/Artist100TN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/DSCN1321TN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/DeluxeCageWreckTN.jpg)(http://[IMG]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/SoldanoStealth100TN.jpg)[/img](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/RocketSupreme100TN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/ParkerBassTN.jpg)
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: prjacobs on May 27, 2007, 11:22:30 PM
I started writing and recording music on Macs in 1985.  At that time, there wasn't really any choice, the Mac graphics and operating systems were light years ahead of PCs.  Every studio in New York City that I've been in uses Macs.  A few people that I know switched from PCs to Macs and all can't believe how much cooler Macs are to use and how much more you can do with them.  
Yes I love my Macs.  I've owned a zillion of them and wouldn't dream of ever using anything else. For general use, they're also virus free.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: simonlock on May 28, 2007, 12:03:50 AM
Macs are nice. Not invinceable though. Mine crashed a few times and then Iost my entire hard drive. It was a MacBook that was a year and a half old.

Program availablility is very frustrating if you are used to using a PC. If you're ok with doing less than half the things you could with your PC its great, smooth performance and no worries with viruses.

Simon
Vancouver,BC
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: 791979 on May 28, 2007, 12:34:39 AM
I think that for most people a PC is the better choice, more hardware & software options.  They sure have there problems, and I personally dislike Microsoft, but at the moment a PC is still the way I work.

Having said all that I am a techie geek, and worked for many years in the ICT world, I have a really strong liking for UNIX systems, and I'm tempted to go Mac in the future for this reason.

I agree with the previous comments about Macs having problems (just like the rest if the ICT world), I know quite a few professional Mac users, and they are always telling me how great they are, no viruses etc, fast, reliable.  Well I just don't buy that, I'm sure the real reason lots of "arty" types buy them because they look nice [:D]

I still do a little ICT work, and I currently have a busted iMac on my desk for repair, and a quick look on eBay will show lots of broken systems for sale.  In my experience all systems are vulnerable to hardware failure irrespective of what badge is on the box.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: BrainWorm on May 28, 2007, 01:41:48 AM
My Mac is five or six years old. No problems I can remember, unless it was a hard drive I replaced. I don't remember if it was this Mac or the one before. Hard drives now have the SMART test to let you know ahead of time they are going to fail. I installed a second hard drive for Pro Tools use. Been so long since I've had a Mac crash I would have to sit and think what to do. Ahh, yes. Hit the restart button. If I go into a recording studio and see a PC being used I get suspicious things are not top notch.

"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: davecan on May 28, 2007, 07:20:46 AM
This is one of those discussions that can get touchy fast, just search other newsgroups and you'll see all kinds of cussing and name calling, etc.  Bottom line, either system can be used for pro recording if you set it up correctly... What exactly are your intentions?  If you just want to use the computer as a recording scratch pad - i.e.- not a lot of tracks and not the highest resolution, than you can tweak either a PC or Mac to do it AND use the same machine for your general computing.  For real pro recording most people seem to need a dedicated system, i.e. - they own a separate computer for this.  
(But I could be wrong.) [:)] [:)] [:)] [:)]
PEACE!!!


Git on the stick, Parker kin, and rustle us up some Southern Flies 'fore we whoop yo behinds! ~
"Cotton" Candido
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: titanium667 on May 28, 2007, 07:46:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 791979

I agree with the previous comments about Macs having problems (just like the rest if the ICT world), I know quite a few professional Mac users, and they are always telling me how great they are, no viruses etc, fast, reliable.  Well I just don't buy that, I'm sure the real reason lots of "arty" types buy them because they look nice [:D]

I work with both platforms but stick to Macs at home. Actually my mac at work
runs Mac OSX and Windows XP SP2, BOTH NATIVELY! So I can choose my poison!
Actually, I only boot up in windows for Quark Xpress and Microsoft Publisher files. [xx(]
Last week my I had to remove a virus and some spyware on my Windows partition, but I have NEVER had a virus or spyware on any of my Macs since 1988! Ooops!, showing my age!!![:I]

1999 Parker Fly Jazz for sale!
(http://homepage.mac.com/gtas/.Pictures/smallfly.jpg) (http://www.visitpittsburgh.com/images/db/static/Pens_300_small.jpg)
www.myspace.com/humankindness ¥ www.myspace.com/kidsafterdark
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: 791979 on May 28, 2007, 08:29:58 AM
You are certainly correct the Windows is a lot worse for Malware.  I have spent many hours recently "disinfecting" PC's
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: 908ssp on May 28, 2007, 08:32:03 AM
Have you ever heard of someone going fishing for the smallest fish in the lake? Or hunting the littlest dear in the woods?...Me neither.

Alex

(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/BoogeClassicTN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/Artist100TN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/DSCN1321TN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/DeluxeCageWreckTN.jpg)(http://[IMG]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/SoldanoStealth100TN.jpg)[/img](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/RocketSupreme100TN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/ParkerBassTN.jpg)
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: 791979 on May 28, 2007, 09:07:33 AM
[:D][:D][:D][:D]

Yeah, I guess that's a fair point [:)]
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: loumt123 on May 28, 2007, 09:29:05 AM
My family and I seem to have bad luck with PCs, which is why we were all either deciding to go for a Macbook or Custom Dell Laptop. The current computer I'm on has to be reformatted almost every month because of the spyware and virus issues. It seemed to be that way on old desktops, too.

 Looking for something I can record with as well as browse the internet and such without having so many problems. All we really use the computer for is internet/checking email/etc. Truthfully I don't even have mp3s on here....Still stuck on CDs[:)]
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: prjacobs on May 28, 2007, 10:55:21 AM
To repeat, in the pro recording world, I only know one person who uses a PC.  I have a friend who runs gigastudio, which is a PC program and uses 4 PCs only for that program, running them all through a Mac based sequencer.  (This is a person who has 47 first violins in his orchestration template, and gets virtually every orchestral library for free.)  Pros who can use anything use Macs, period.  
Is there snobbery among Mac owners?  Yes... Do we consider ourselves more "arty" than PC users?  Again, Yes.  Not that owning a Mac exactly gives you membership in the underground subculture.  (Only compared to PC owners:)
Every computer will crash.  Having basically said that I wouldn't be caught dead with a PC, I have a feeling that in 2007, there aren't many bad computers.  

Best,
Paul
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: bno on May 28, 2007, 09:08:50 PM
Its not about the computer, its about what you do with it.  Both Macs and PCs are competent music creation platforms.   People win Grammys and score movie soundtracks on both platforms.  

With the PC platform you are best served by having a dedicated machine for your music. If you are financially challenged, you will get more bang for the buck from the PC platform.  You could set up a decent music platform for well under a grand.  You could get into  entry level for less thann $500.

If you can swing the investment, you can't go wrong with a Mac - but from what I've seen you'll probably be cutting a hole in your wallet when you do.  Figure at least a couple grand to get started.

If you have any intention of playing games - don't even think about a Mac.

If you plan on becomming a professional freelance recording engineer/producer you probably need to go Mac/ProTools. $$$$$

Don't buy into the fear mongering hyperbole that Mac users bellow about PCs.  Simple precautions and you're going to be fine.  

There's nothing you can do on a Mac that you can't do on a PC.
There's nothing you can do on a PC that you can't do on a Mac.

On the other hand - you can get a very nice dedicated digital multitrack unit and just not get involved in the whole distraction of using a computer to make music.  
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: jamrcat on May 28, 2007, 09:58:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

To repeat, in the pro recording world, I only know one person who uses a PC.  I have a friend who runs gigastudio, which is a PC program and uses 4 PCs only for that program, running them all through a Mac based sequencer.  (This is a person who has 47 first violins in his orchestration template, and gets virtually every orchestral library for free.)  Pros who can use anything use Macs, period.  
Is there snobbery among Mac owners?  Yes... Do we consider ourselves more "arty" than PC users?  Again, Yes.  Not that owning a Mac exactly gives you membership in the underground subculture.  (Only compared to PC owners:)
Every computer will crash.  Having basically said that I wouldn't be caught dead with a PC, I have a feeling that in 2007, there aren't many bad computers.  

Best,
Paul


I disagree! [^] You say in the pro recording world you only know one pro that uses a PC. I use a PC and I have made lots of money producing corporate productions. I also know many pro studios on the West coast who use PC based hardware. I think in the last three decades Mac has ruled the pro recording world for studios who use computer based systems, but that (IMHO) has been changing in the last decade! My wife as well in the Graphics world has experienced the exact same thing. It use to be die hard graphic departments wouldn't dream of using anything but a Mac, but that has changed big time! Her last two jobs as a graphic designer, including her present job will not use Mac's anymore. Times they are a changin'! [:)]

01' Parker Fly Classic "Natural" w/SD Black Backs (Thanks Jay)
93' Parker Fly Deluxe hardtail RP "Blackie" KP Signature (Thank You! Bob & Ken)
Fender Cyber Twin, Korg AX1500G, D-Tar Mama Bear, and a 2FlyBob (Thanks Paul!)

jamrcat
Butte, Montana
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on May 28, 2007, 10:07:05 PM
As someone who owns more than a dozen current issue Macs and has owned over 100 over the years, as well as about 35 PCs (down to one, now)  I can say, without doubt, that you will have FAAAARRRR fewer problems in the Mac world than you will with PCs. They are simply more reliable. The operating system is also far ahead of Windows. On my Macs, I've been using features for the last five years that Vista has just appropriated for the PC world. Yes, there are less software offerings - in general, you get to avoid the dogs from the PC world, as the resources are not available to develop those programs for the Mac. It hasn't affected my ability to record and produce music, create all of my stuff for my ad agency, develop web sites, run a business, cater to my personal interests, etc, etc, etc. And on a Mac, there is simply no such thing as spyware.

Sure, a Mac may be the smallest fish in the pond, but it's the brightest. We certainly don't buy Flys cuz they are the most popular - we buy them because they are the best. When it comes to computers - Mac = Fly.

Gabeesh?

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on May 28, 2007, 10:15:00 PM
One further plus for the Mac - Logic. It's the only computer it's available for, and it's the best music creation program on the planet. Cubase ain't bad either (I own both). GarageBand is just plain fun. The other programs that come free with a Mac (iPhoto, iTunes, iWeb, iDVD, iMovieHD) are just top notch, stellar programs. A Mac, out of the box, is capable of recording your album. making a master or dups of CD, creating cover art, AND getting it all to the internet. Nothing else to buy. Sort of like the Fly - Acoustic and Electric guitars with sound completely moldable to your style, without having to learn to be a luthier. What more could you want?

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: jamrcat on May 28, 2007, 10:56:18 PM
Bob, we missed you! Glad you chimed in! I thought my pro PC stance would bring you out of the closet! I love you man! [:D]

01' Parker Fly Classic "Natural" w/SD Black Backs (Thanks Jay)
93' Parker Fly Deluxe hardtail RP "Blackie" KP Signature (Thank You! Bob & Ken)
Fender Cyber Twin, Korg AX1500G, D-Tar Mama Bear, and a 2FlyBob (Thanks Paul!)

jamrcat
Butte, Montana
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: 908ssp on May 28, 2007, 11:48:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by uburoibob

... The other programs that come free with a Mac (iPhoto, iTunes, iWeb, iDVD, iMovieHD) are just top notch, stellar programs. A Mac, out of the box, is capable of recording your album. making a master or dups of CD, creating cover art, AND getting it all to the internet.



If they did that at Microsoft they would be sued for bundling.[V]

[^]

Alex

(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/BoogeClassicTN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/Artist100TN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/DSCN1321TN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/DeluxeCageWreckTN.jpg)(http://[IMG]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/SoldanoStealth100TN.jpg)[/img](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/RocketSupreme100TN.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~908ssp/ParkerBassTN.jpg)
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: BrainWorm on May 29, 2007, 02:20:03 AM
And not only do you get free software bundled witht the Mac, you get free backdated stock options also. What more could a guy want?
On the serious side, the Mac is more cost effective than even a Dell computer the last time I checked. I had a chief of technology at a company correct me when I thought the Mac was more expensive. We went through a point by point comparison. I was suprised after all the propaganda that the Mac was more expensive.

"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: 791979 on May 29, 2007, 04:24:27 AM
I guess that before anyone decides on one platform, they have to make some decisions about the hardware & software they want to use.  If you want to use Sonar then it's a PC, if you want to use Logic (is that what the Mac stuff is called?) then its a Mac.  What soundcard?  Is it supported under both systems.  

We all have our own prejudices, but for someone deciding on a system for recording & general work this is probably the biggest deciding factor.

Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: loumt123 on May 29, 2007, 05:38:57 AM
Is logic better than protools? What hardware does it require?
Is all mixing and production done digitally...like no need for mixers?

Real time score transcriptions [:p]...I don't need to struggle with finale notepad any longer[:o)]
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on May 29, 2007, 06:15:56 AM
On a Mac, you don't need a soundcard. All built in. Of course, if you want to run it through the sound management of an outboard device such as one of the Tascam controllers with USB or Firewire audio, then great. There are tons of cross platform interfaces.

Lou, Logic vs ProTools or Cubase or Sonar is partially a subjective call, partially an objective call. I've found Logic to be rock solid (unlike Cubase or ProTools) and far more flexible than any other program in it's ability to be customized. Logic comes to you in a complete, ready-to-use form, but also allows you to rewire and set it up any way you want - whether you are going with strictly audio recording, combining it with MIDI or scoring (with a need to sync to video), Logic is my choice.

And yes, you can do it all with just a Mac - no mixers, no interfaces, no nuttin, if you need to. Just a pair of headphones, and a way to get line level from your guitar into your computer (1/4" to 1/8" cord). Plug and go.

Alex, being small and flying under the radar has its advantages... ;-) There's plenty of room over here. We welcome you. See Vista the way it was meant to be experienced - as OSX!

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: 791979 on May 29, 2007, 07:56:18 AM
For me, I didn't like ProTools or Cubase.  IMHO the main contenders are Logic on Mac & Sonar on PC.  I know others will disagree and that's fine.  I should say that I have have tried most PC recording systems (including PT & Cubase) before settling with Sonar.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on May 29, 2007, 07:57:59 AM
The big question is: How many of us have extensive experience on both platforms in their most recent and current incarnations, and can make an objective call here?

I believe I can.

Bob


1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: prjacobs on May 29, 2007, 08:50:48 AM
Hey Bob,
I've been using Digital Performer as a sequencer and Protools for audio recording and editing.  DP is a much better tool for a composer but Protools does have a very easy, intuitive way of letting you work with audio.  However, I'm considering switching  to Logic, because, as you say, it seems to be very stable and also seems to do things that neither Protools or DP do.  Since Apple owns Logic, obviously it will always work well with Macs.  Digital Performer and Protools don't like each other at all.  Have you had any experience with DP?  I hear that the jump fro DP to Logic is not that hard. MOTU seems to have dropped the ball with the Mach V, their sampler, so I have a feeling that my Digital Performer days are numbered.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: titanium667 on May 29, 2007, 09:24:08 AM
I've used Digital Performer and Logic on the Mac and though I like both,
Logic is more stable and limitless in it's capabilities. I'll admit that Logics
learning curve is steeper than DP, Protools or cubase, but once you get the hang of it
you can't beat it for power and flexibility! And again, my dual-core intel Xeon
Mac Pro kicks ass in OS X and Windows![:D]

I miss my Parker Jazz!
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: davecan on May 29, 2007, 09:59:57 AM
quote:
And again, my dual-core intel Xeon Mac Pro kicks ass in OS X and Windows!

 
Having that ability makes a huge case for going with a Mac, IMO.  
How difficult was it to set up Windows on your Mac?  



Git on the stick, Parker kin, and rustle us up some Southern Flies 'fore we whoop yo behinds! ~
"Cotton" Candido
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: bno on May 29, 2007, 10:47:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

Mac or PC for recording or just general use?

Yes.  Either one.

I consider Craig Anderton to be one of the foremost journalistic authorities on the topic.  He uses both and remains platform neutral. Here are Craig's thoughts regarding DAWs (digital audio workstations).

http://www.musicproductiontoolbox.com/article.php?art=3

And here's some more stuff.

http://www.musicproductiontoolbox.com/article.php?art=2

What you need:

Powerful processor
Lots of memory
Lots of fast storage - one for your OS and software, and a separate one for your audio data
Backup method (extra external storage)
RW CD/DVD burner
Audio interface

Software.  Here's a running comparison over time that may be helpful.  

http://www.tweakheadz.com/Sequencer2.html

As far as "general computing", the bundled Mac platform does have a leg up with the exception that you would probably need to purchase a copy of Microsoft Office.  The MacBook looks like a nifty computer - for $1100.  You can get a useable Windows laptop for a couple hundred that covers all the basics.  Dell, Acer and HP are your best choices there.

For what it's worth, the largest producer of Mac software is Microsoft.  Microsoft does hold a minority stake in Apple.  Apple is moving away from being a computer company and into being a media company (they officially dropped "Computer" from the corporate name).  Microsoft makes software and only software.  Microsoft has a distinct knack for successfully appropriating software technology.

This is one of the problems with free market economy.  Too many choices.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: loumt123 on May 29, 2007, 01:54:45 PM
That's great the MAC doesn't need any external hardware. Sounds like MAC is gonna be the way to go.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: prjacobs on May 29, 2007, 02:06:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by titanium667

I've used Digital Performer and Logic on the Mac and though I like both,
Logic is more stable and limitless in it's capabilities. I'll admit that Logics
learning curve is steeper than DP, Protools or cubase, but once you get the hang of it
you can't beat it for power and flexibility! And again, my dual-core intel Xeon
Mac Pro kicks ass in OS X and Windows![:D]

I miss my Parker Jazz!



I never used to have any trouble with Digital Performer, but the latest version is not as stable.  The current version of Mach V is just not a powerful enough sampler if you really want to orchestrate.  I've also found that I have to divide my sessions in half, because when a stack up lots of virtual instruments, DP crashes.  I have the fastest dual processor Mac with 4.5 gig of ram, and it's still not happy.[:(]
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: prjacobs on May 29, 2007, 02:21:23 PM
By the way, in terms of storage, I've been using hot swap drives.  I've had so many power supplies fail, that I finally decided to go with a dedicated unit with it's own power supply that you just drop drives into.  I think that the unit itself is around $79 and it comes with one tray for a drive.  Just drives by themselves are cheap, a 250gig drive is around $69.  I've been able to take the drives out of my broken units and salvage them.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on May 29, 2007, 04:15:17 PM
DP has always been flakey for me, but I've had to use it on some collaberative projects. It's feature set is nice, but it's non-intuitive GUI, while beautiful, is a deal breaker. ProTools is, for lack of a better word, boring. It's not terribly pretty to work in, has a slight delay to it's feel, isn't wonderfully inventive. It's white bread of DAWs.

Logic and Cubase are the most feature rich, flexible, expandable, etc of the bunch. And Logic wins for stability and customizability for me.

And while I own Logic Pro, I use Logic Express cuz it's just a little livelier. If I ever need the extended capabilities of Pro, I will open it for that project. So far, I haven't run into a need.

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: titanium667 on May 29, 2007, 08:56:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by davecan

quote:
And again, my dual-core intel Xeon Mac Pro kicks ass in OS X and Windows!

 
Having that ability makes a huge case for going with a Mac, IMO.  
How difficult was it to set up Windows on your Mac?  



Git on the stick, Parker kin, and rustle us up some Southern Flies 'fore we whoop yo behinds! ~
"Cotton" Candido




I set up a partition via Apple's Bootcamp but you have to reboot in either Mac
OSX or Windows. Most often I use "Parallels" to run Windows simultaniously with
the Mac OS. For instance, If a client gives me a Microsoft Publisher file (Publisher
is not available for the Mac OS), I just launch Windows through Parallels and save the
Publisher file as a PDF, where I can manipulate it on the Mac OS without having to reboot.
If I were to run Windows Audio apps, I'd probably go the dual boot route for better performance. Running Windows through Parallel is a tad slower. Either way is pretty easy to set up though.

I miss my Parker Jazz!
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: Paul Marossy on May 29, 2007, 10:43:43 PM
I didn't even read any of the posts in this thread, but let me just say that I am about ready to take this Windows XP "Professional" home computer I have and smash it with a sledge hammer, pump a thousand rounds from my AR-15 into it, pour gasoline on it and torch it then run a steam roller over it! Did that give you the impression that I am frustrated with my computer? [:o)]

Now, my Windows XP Professional machine at work seems to be pretty bulletproof. I do need to get a new home computer, so I guess I ought to read thru this thread, huh? [;)]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
www.DIYguitarist.com
www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: DrJeff on May 29, 2007, 11:18:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy

...I am about ready to take this Windows XP "Professional" home computer I have and smash it with a sledge hammer, pump a thousand rounds from my AR-15 into it, pour gasoline on it and torch it then run a steam roller over it...


Testify, brother!! I have faced the blue screen of death on more than one occasion. MS Office applications being the workplace standard was the only thing that has kept me in a Windows machine. My next home computer will be a Mac - end of discussion.1997 Sunburst Nitefly
2000 Metallic Red Fly Deluxe w/Roland Mod
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: David Tomkins on May 30, 2007, 02:48:37 AM
find out what platform britney spears was recorded on and then buy the other one.

that's my technical 2 cents on the subject.

2005 Green Quilted Maple Custom Mojo, 2006 Parker Fly T-Shirt, 2006 Parker Fly Baseball Cap.  A triple-whammy of Parker goodness!!
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on May 30, 2007, 06:30:48 AM
Britney's DEFINITELY a PC girl... there are photos of her all over the internet exposing her PC, getting in and out of limos. She really should cover that thing up...

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: DrJeff on May 30, 2007, 10:02:10 AM
quote:
Originally posted by uburoibob

... there are photos of her all over the internet exposing her PC...


[:I]
and where is the "blue screen of death" when you need it? [:D]1997 Sunburst Nitefly
2000 Metallic Red Fly Deluxe w/Roland Mod
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: Toonman on May 30, 2007, 10:17:43 AM
Oh, God... not the dreaded "PC VS MAC" thread... :)

For some reason I will never understand, users seem to defend their platform with intense passion. But this only makes things more confusing for those who are open to both.

I've worked with computers for a loooong time (started with a Commodore 64), and I've gone through Windows, Max, IRIX/UNIX/Linux, etc. I do have my preferences, but that doesn't mean I discard anything else, and I will explain why.

Let's get something straight. A computer is just a piece of metal that doesn't do ANYTHING. It therefore, can't crash. Now, what you need to do is load something onto the computer. Then it'll do stuff. In this case, the first thing to load onto it is an operating system (I'm sorry for the incredibly childish tone of this post, but it helps me keep thinking :) ). Now, if you leave it at that, just an OS, no apps installed yet, both a Mac and a PC have equal chances of having problems (granted that you're using a LEGAL, ORIGINAL installer).

Problem is, this NEVER happens. We have different components in our computers. Video cards, sound cards, CD/DVD burners, keyboards, mice, etc. These require DRIVERS to talk to the OS, and not all companies are equally careful about the quality of their drivers. A bad driver can make your computer extremely unstable (and users usually blame it on the computer itself, which seems to be the logical conclusion).

The reason MACs used to have a "they're more stable" platform was partially due to the fact that, up until recently (last 3 years), they were a fairly closed hardware platform. You could NOT go to Best Buy and buy just any video card for a Mac... there were no options. You bought one, and it came with a certain hardware configuration. If yiu wanted to replace or upgrade something, you had to go through Apple. That allowed them total control over hardware, and the sofwtare to go with it.

PC's, on the other hand, are like bulding a house using Lego blocks. You can use the yellow ones, the red ones... use this videocard, that sound card, the other CD burner, etc. Everyone makes peripherals for PC's. And of course, said manufacturers are responsibles to provide the drivers that will allow those devices to function "properly".

So, I guess you can see where all this is going. Now, I must say I'm a PC person, for several reasons which I will not detail here. I will say though that, a properly set-up and taken care of PC is rock solid, just as a properly taken care of MAC would be. Maybe it's just that PC's are harder to take care of, or PC users are less computer savvy (I can't count the times I've had to fix problems with my dad's computer and networks).

In any case, we should be less passionate. You can always say "I love MACs because the OS's workflow is really friendly FOR ME", but we should never plain discard or label something as "useless". Remember, one man's gourmet meal is another man's poison (or something like that... ).

Cheers all!! [:)]

Sergio Muciño
http://www.myspace.com/sergiomucino
http://www.sergiomucino.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: Paul Marossy on May 30, 2007, 11:47:48 AM
quote:
Testify, brother!! I have faced the blue screen of death on more than one occasion.


Oh yeah, been there, done that.

 
quote:
I've worked with computers for a loooong time (started with a Commodore 64)


Dang, you got me beat. I started out on a 8088 when I was learning on AutoCAD v2.6

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
www.DIYguitarist.com
www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: Toonman on May 30, 2007, 01:22:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy



 
quote:
I've worked with computers for a loooong time (started with a Commodore 64)


Dang, you got me beat. I started out on a 8088 when I was learning on AutoCAD v2.6




Hehe... ah, yes, back in the days... [:)]. And I'm not THAT old, actually... it's just that I was... uumm... an unusual child [:D].

Autocad, eh? Are you into engineering/architecture? I started doing graphics/music on my Commodore. Actually, what I do for a living are visual effects for films (y'know.. the 3d stuff and all that), so I'm kinda realted to Acad (I don't use it, but the software I use is like it's cousin).

I always chuckle when I remember a friend of mine got a 386 with 32 MB RAM... we thought he wanted to conquer the world! [:p]... ah, the days... (hahaha)

Sergio Muciño
http://www.myspace.com/sergiomucino
http://www.sergiomucino.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: Paul Marossy on May 30, 2007, 01:44:23 PM
quote:
Autocad, eh? Are you into engineering/architecture? I started doing graphics/music on my Commodore. Actually, what I do for a living are visual effects for films (y'know.. the 3d stuff and all that), so I'm kinda realted to Acad (I don't use it, but the software I use is like it's cousin).


Yep, I work in a consulting engineering office - for 18 years now. So, you use 3D modeling programs and animation programs? Yeah, you see that in architecture sometimes for real time walk through animations. I would never use anything like that in what I do at work, though. Rarely even do any 3D drawings. [:0]

EDIT: All the PCB layouts at my DIY were drawn with AutoCAD, BTW.

quote:
I always chuckle when I remember a friend of mine got a 386 with 32 MB RAM... we thought he wanted to conquer the world!


Yeah, I remember my first CAD station - a 386 with a 40 Meg hardrive running at 33mHz or something like that. I had to back up all my work onto 5.25" floppy disks. I'm glad I don't have to deal with that anymore! [:p]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
www.DIYguitarist.com
www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: bno on May 30, 2007, 01:47:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Toonman

Oh, God... not the dreaded "PC VS MAC" thread... :)
But look at how civil we are.  [}:)]  
I think it's still true that Macs are generally more people friendly to people who are not computer friendly because of all the reasons you outline above.  Lou should be very happy with his Mac.  Until he sees someone running Sonar64 on a 30" Surface.  [:p]

Bob, I think Lou (and anyone else who traces this thread) is going to need practical input, based on your experience, as to what the base/minimum configuration should be if he wants to get decent performance from the Logic platform.  Is the built in audio adequate or will he need an external USB/Firewire interface? I'd be curious to know myself.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: Toonman on May 30, 2007, 02:29:50 PM
If by "built in audio" you're referring to the sound card that comes with the computer, I will say those are NOT good for good audio work (and I don't care what Creative says in their PR/marketing sheets!). You need to get an audio interface designed and built for audio recording in mind, with good A/D converters. Firewire ports transmit data faster that USB 2.0, so I lean towards FW interfaces.

As for Logic, here's what their webpage states:

System Requirements

    * Macintosh computer with PowerPC G4, PowerPC G5 or Intel Core Duo; Intel Core Duo, PowerPC G5, or dual PowerPC G4 processor recommended
    * Logic Node applications require PowerPC G5 or Intel Core Duo and Gigabit Ethernet connectivity
    * 512MB of RAM
    * Mac OS X v10.4.3 or later for PowerPC-based systems; Mac OS X v10.4.4 or later for Intel-based systems
    * QuickTime 7.0.3 or later
    * 8GB of available hard drive space
    * DVD drive for software installation
    * Available USB port for XSKey (copy protection)
    * Low-latency multi-I/O audio hardware and MIDI interface recommended

Now, when a company publishes minimum system requirements, add to them 1/3 - 1/2 additional power for real-world production requirements, and that's what you'll need. And as you can see, they do mention a "low-latency milti-I/O audio hardware and MIDI interface".

Hope this helps!

P.S. Yes, I agree. This is the most civilized PC VS MAC thread ever. [:)]

Sergio Muciño
http://www.myspace.com/sergiomucino
http://www.sergiomucino.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: DrJeff on May 30, 2007, 02:42:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Toonman

Oh, God... not the dreaded "PC VS MAC" thread... :)

Sergio makes several excellent points. Microsoft and Apple management made divergent business decisions in moving their products into the marketplace.
 
I am blessed that price need not the first consideration as it was when I first purchased a "real" computer. So, my next computer will be a Mac, but I realize a PC is quite capable of serious mojo.

BTW, my first computer was a 16K Radio Shack Color Computer. Oh, the joys of a 32 column word processor -- on cassette tape no less. [xx(]
1997 Sunburst Nitefly
2000 Metallic Red Fly Deluxe w/Roland Mod
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: sfw on May 30, 2007, 03:33:14 PM
quote:
I've worked with computers for a loooong time (started with a Commodore 64)


Sorry, Commadore VIC 20 with a cassette tape hooked up to a 13inch b/w tv, guy here. Still have it, the computer not the tv. I'm trying to see if I can get it mounted inside my nitefly for an onboard midi processor :) Also, staying out of the PC MAC wars. To each their own, no better no worse, just yours.

- Scott

Fly Artist (purchase fund started)
NiteFly '97
P6; PM10; PM20; Franken-Fenders
Wiggles Murray, Barbie Electric w/matching mic, American Idol electric, Pink Hello Kitty
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: Toonman on May 30, 2007, 03:45:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sfw

quote:
I've worked with computers for a loooong time (started with a Commodore 64)


Sorry, Commadore VIC 20 with a cassette tape hooked up to a 13inch b/w tv, guy here.



Aaarrgghh!! Ok, you win.[:)]

Yeah, a friend of mine still had the cassette player hooked up to his C64 (I was lucky to get the disc drive). I remember it would take 20 minutes to load Kung Fu Master off that thing! It was good though, as it allowed us to get the munchies ready for a good session of a**-whoopin'!! [B)] [:D]

How I miss fiddling with ADSR-filtered tones in that thing... [8)]

Sergio Muciño
http://www.myspace.com/sergiomucino
http://www.sergiomucino.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: sfw on May 30, 2007, 04:14:35 PM
Yeah, my first commercial software program was a "backup" program for C64 diskettes. It would copy anything to make a "backup" copy for your own personal use. Kind of like the DVD "backup" programs today. Sold about 400 of those things, thought I was BIG TIME in the software business. Then I learned. Oh for the good old days of ...... I was always a big c64 Summer Games fan. I could hit a 10.0 on the high dive everytime doing 4 somersaults. And I used to walk uphill both ways through the snow to get to school, at least that's what I tell my kids.

Actually I think this is a good comparison:

Current Fender/Gibson = IBM 8086 PC
Parker Fly = iMAC

- Scott

Fly Artist (purchase fund started)
NiteFly '97
P6; PM10; PM20; Franken-Fenders
Wiggles Murray, Barbie Electric w/matching mic, American Idol electric, Pink Hello Kitty
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on May 30, 2007, 08:43:11 PM
IMHO, the 16-bit audio in a Mac is perfectly useable. In fact, I've used it many times. Moving to more professional sound inputs via USB or Firewire is great too, gettin 24bit/96kHz in is wonderful. But not necessary. CD audio is still 16bit/44.1kHz no matter how you slice it. And considering that most audio is delivered on the internet in some lossy manner - either MP3 or AAC as the most popular - anything more than 16/44.1 could be considered overkill.

My recommendation is get as much computer and stuff as you can afford. That said, I am running a fairly stock iMac G5 with 1 meg of RAM using Logic Express and some of the Jam Packs (1, Symphony, World, Rhythm) and can get just about anything I need. BUT, you don't even need to go that far. A STOCK 17" iMac (the $1199 one) these days will run GarageBand just fine (it comes with it as part of the deal) and it's a great place to start. A STOCK MacBook (the $1299 one is recommended, as it has the rewritable DVD drive) will also work just fine. Nothing else. But if you WANT to add on, see my post under the "Need A Little Help From The Experts" thread in this forum.

Happy to take this offline and help anyone configure a system. BTW - BSW just became an Apple dealer. They will be putting together some cool bundles... http://www.bswusa.com - the Apple page will be up by June 8th..

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: Toonman on May 30, 2007, 09:00:55 PM
Hey Bob... I totally understand your point, but I will have to disagree due to one quite determining factor... signal resolution.
When you use a low-resolution signal (such as a 16-bit signal), you decrease substantially your signal-to-noise ratio, due to the fact that you're sampling the incoming waveform with less frequency. Add to this the fact that a poor sampled signal can have increased chances of suffering from audio aliasing (artifacts) after being processed by audio processing devices (a.k.a. effects), and you have a VERY strong reason to never record anything under 24 bit.

Of course, all this is arguable. If you want to drop some lines that you will use as reference for something else, or you're playing around, you may very well use your built-in audio... but for anything serious, you will not want to go below 24 bits. And you're right... CD's play audio at 16 bit, but this audio comes from a dithered 24-but signal (if not higher on systems that can handle that, such as TDM's). A signal that is mastered at 24-bit and then dithered down to 16 bit will definitely have more quality than a signal mastered at 16-bit and passed along with no dithering.

This is of course my very own $0.02. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just giving my probably not very accurate opinion [:)].

(On a personal sidenote, I ruined a perfect take of a solo I was recording for my currently-in-post CD by not noticing that I had set the project to 16-bit because I was "just sketching anyway"... lesson learned... never again! [xx(] ).

(P.S. Any audio engineer in the room feel free to come and slap me silly if I'm speaking nonsense... [8]).

Sergio Muciño
http://www.myspace.com/sergiomucino
http://www.sergiomucino.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on May 30, 2007, 09:12:00 PM
Sergio, you are right too.

And that's why it's important to sort of learn the ropes as you learn the gear. Getting the most out of a 16/44.1 input is an invaluable experience for anyone. If you can learn how to get maximum signal in at that level, then you are going to be great at working with 24/96.

The point is - start with a stock setup. Learn the limitations first hand. Overcome them. One step at a time. You CAN get great recordings out of 16/44.1 IF you know what you are doing. I am a firm believer in learning from the bottom up. I know this is how I learned, and how I STILL can get great results from almost anything I am given to work with.

Conisdering we are still less than a decade away from 4 tracks on a 1 7/8 ips cassette deck, 16/44.1 is LIGHT years ahead of that. You can get pro results from 16/44.1. And then you can take it to the next level, and so on.

Cool thing is, you won't have to replace your Mac. Just get the right interface. Hardware and software are already ready when you are!

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: BrainWorm on May 31, 2007, 02:27:10 AM
I went to the computer store and bought any video card and installed it in my Mac about seven years ago. The maker had a driver for the card in a Mac, no problem. Did not have to  go through Apple to do it. Video cards, ethernet cards, hard drives, after market CPU's, RAM,  it's all been on the market for years for Macs.
I record at 16/44.1 because that's what the CD is going to be, and I read you lose quality  when you compress from the higher rate.

"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: badmotorfinger74 on May 31, 2007, 11:54:27 AM
I bought my first Mac almost two years ago (PowerMac G5).  I was a little nervous having to use a new operating system, and setup a home studio on it (previously I was using a Roland VS-880).  I'm happy to say that it was a relatively painless process.  I'm using Logic Pro (got a $500 rebate on it) with a Presonus Firebox as my soundcard.  My plan is to sell the PowerMac once Apple releases Leopard, and replace it with a MacBook Pro so that I can mess with Logic without having to lock myself in the bedroom.  My wife (who isn't a big fan of her Dell laptop) wants to make the switch to a black MacBook around the same time.  In my experience, all of the praises that people have been saying of the Macs are true.  I rarely have any errors (the exception being when I'm running  about 5 instances of Amplitube 2... What a hog that is).  I love the other apps that come with it as well (iPhoto, iMovie, etc.)
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on May 31, 2007, 12:14:18 PM
Yup. Generally I restart my Macs once a month or so, whether they want it or not. They never crash. SERIOUSLY.

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: simonlock on May 31, 2007, 01:30:00 PM
I must have gotten a lemon Mac. Mine crashes freezes and the hard drive died. Sounds just like a PC to me.

Simon
Vancouver,BC
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: Toonman on May 31, 2007, 01:51:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BrainWorm


I record at 16/44.1 because that's what the CD is going to be, and I read you lose quality  when you compress from the higher rate.
"



This only happens if you use "questionable" software to perform dithering (there's lotsa math behind that). With a decent quality application you should have no problem. There is a reason professional CD's are actually recorded at very high sample rates and bit depths, and then dithered down (the same applies to video... the fact that you're going to watch a movie in your home DVD/TV doesn't mean the director is going to shoot the movie using a Handycam...).

I'm not trying to come across as "smartypants"... I just want to clear off some misconceptions around this sometimes cloudy subject. I'm all with Bob about learning to optimize resources. However, the issue around CD-quality audio is always a bit difficult to explain and understand. I could go more in-depth about the algorithmic part of this problem, but I don't think anyone wants that... [:)]

Cheers all!

P.S. Thanks for the clarification on the Mac hardware. I guess that, as always, these type of things just took quite longer to reach Mexico... [8D]

Sergio Muciño
http://www.myspace.com/sergiomucino
http://www.sergiomucino.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on May 31, 2007, 08:21:51 PM
Simon,

I am sorry about your Mac woes, but that is really quite unusual for a Mac. I'd pull it apart and see if someone didn't just dress a PC up in Mac clothes...

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on May 31, 2007, 08:30:57 PM
Sergio,

You are of course right - the bigger the palette, the closer the down-rezed version will be to the original performance. Yes, there are some incredibly wonderful technologies out there. Sony has a format that has a greater resolution than analog tape - meaning that each particle that used to be on a magnetic tape can now be divided into greater than 1,000,000 parts. This technology will enable, for the first time, completely natural capture of performance. Of course, the hardware to use such technology is still quite a ways from the average computer. But, within a couple of years, it'll obsolete 48bit/96k or 96bit/192k. I know you are thinking what can possibly have a greater bandwidth that 192k, but when you consider the complex interaction of sub and hyper harmonics, and the effect they have on the sound of fundamentals, I think you'll agree that the only way to approach natural sound reproduction is to get something that's roughly the resolution of air.

Think about how cool that would be!

But, keep in mind that a few short years ago - say the second half of the 80s and the first half of the 90s, everything was being recorded 16-bit/48kHz. So, a lot of the grunge movement and early progressive and classic rock music was recorded and mastered on what we now consider inferior 16/48 technology.

All I am saying is that without spending any extra dough, a Mac outta the box is capable of capturing music with the same resolution as captured Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Metallica, the Rolling Stones, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd, the Beatles (well, the Threetles) etc, etc, etc, etc. And that ain't bad for under $1300...

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: bno on May 31, 2007, 10:24:50 PM
quote:
And that ain't bad for under $1300...
Which is more than twice what it costs to get the same thing with a PC.  Sorry, couldn't resist...  [}:)]

Once you start down this wallet shredding path of computer based recording, regardless of which platform you're on, nobody stays with "out-of-the-box" for very long.  Software, plugins, a control surface, USB/midi keyboard input device, microphones, monitors, memory expansion, storage space.  Those extras add up pretty quick.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on June 01, 2007, 12:02:09 AM
Just out of curiosity, can you please let me know what PC gives you an all in one, pull it outta the box, record your album. master your CD, edit the video, build your web site, create the art for the cover, manage your biz, etc, etc  solution for under $1300?

I'd be happy to check it out and offer a point by point comparison. I'd invite you to do the same.

Bob

1996 Parker Fly Standard Deluxe Hardtail Green (thanks John!)  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: BrainWorm on June 01, 2007, 03:34:26 AM
simonlock, a dying hard drive can cause crashes, make start-up crash. There is a battery in the computer that last for a number of years, then needs replacing. Battery in my current computer is six years old, I thought it would only last five years or about that. I have a replacement battery ready to install when needed. A bad RAM cell can cause intermitant problems. Tech Tool Pro is a good diagnostic tool.

http://www.micromat.com/

http://www.micromat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=83

DiskWarrior is also good.

http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/


"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: simonlock on June 01, 2007, 08:35:12 AM
Thanks Brain. After the harddrive was replaced it has been better. Once in a while it makes clicking noises for about an hour like relays being actuated and when I got it back from the hardrive install my spacebar was intermittent.

Simon
Vancouver,BC
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: bno on June 01, 2007, 09:45:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by uburoibob

what PC
Touche!  Its true, you would have to make a choice on what DAW package you would use and learn how to use your computer.  No denying that the Mac-in-a-box has all those gadgets.  But if you want to get started with DAW recording, you can do it for considerably less on the PC platform.  Any PC running Vista Home Premium with an M-Audio Fast Track would be a good option.  A $1300 DAW in PCland?  Oh, my, we could go shopping!  You could add a MIDI/Audio keyboard interface controller with faders and knobs, powered studio monitors, a USB microphone, Sonar Studio and some plugins.  

Look, we can run around the dead horse and beat it all day.  Let's politely agree to disagree and leave it at that.  [V]

However, I will point out that Sweetwater is blowing out iMac 17" for $999.  It needs the $100 memory upgrade but otherwise looks competent.  That's $1100 for an iMac w/ 1.5GB RAM, etc... that's a pretty good deal.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: loumt123 on June 28, 2007, 09:07:02 PM
what's a good reasonably priced firewire i/o interface to work with logic express?
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on June 28, 2007, 09:41:27 PM
Hey Lou,

Look at the Presonus stuff. There are a number of configurations so try and figure out what your needs would be (inputs, outputs, etc). You might look into the Firebox. FWIW, I use USB interfaces (Tascam US428, US122, Line6 Toneport, Line6 PodXTLive) and they've been just fine. I'd look into a controller as well as an interface - it'll make the experience much more enjoyable. M-Audio also has some great stuff.

Bob

1997 Parker Fly Concert Burnt Butterscotch  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: loumt123 on June 28, 2007, 10:51:03 PM
thank ya[:)]

oh and can express program drumbeats or patterns?
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: uburoibob on June 29, 2007, 08:35:10 AM
Yes, you can do drums through the MIDI function or using loops or both. The easiest way for me is to hook up a MIDI controller of some kind and assign sounds. Play a phrase, clean it up and then loop it. Use another track for fills, intros and outros. OR, you can use any of the canned loops from the Jam Packs, and there are some GREAT ones there. The World Beats and Symphony Packs are great for what I do. But look into all of them. Their $99 each and each is worth it.

Bob

1997 Parker Fly Concert Burnt Butterscotch  â€¢  1999 Parker Fly Artist Custom Hardtail Butterscotch  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Transparent Dark Blue  â€¢  1998 Fly Classic in Cherry Red with DiBurro Roland Mod •  http://bobmartin1111.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: Toonman on June 29, 2007, 10:54:33 AM
Logic is one of the most respected and deep DAWs out there. I have no idea how stripped down the Express version is, but I'm sure it'd meet the needs of most home recording musicians (both audio and MIDI).

For audio interfaces, Presonus and MOTU seem to have a good reputation for Mac. RME seems to be the king. M-audio stuff is more geared toward the consumer/prosumer market (which is ok... I have a FW410), so they're more accessible.

Hope this helps a bit!

Sergio Muciño
http://www.myspace.com/sergiomucino
http://www.sergiomucino.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: loumt123 on July 02, 2007, 05:27:27 PM
well i am happy to say i am now broadcasting from a mac. i'm sure i still have a load to figure out but what i've seen so far is really cool. the whole system is really user friendly...it's easy and intuitive. All of the programs are awesome and great fun.

  Using a computer is enjoyable again [:D]
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: guitarmanuk on November 27, 2007, 07:34:17 AM
Sorry to reserect this old thread guys, but I am just about to take the plunge on a new iMac and wanted some advice from the experienced Mac users on the forum.

I am looking at the iMac for general use (e-mail, surfing etc), some web development and I want to get into some music recording, initially using Garageband and possibly then upgrading to Logic or similar.  I was looking at the base spec 20" iMac (due to cost) but is there an advantage of going up to the 2.4ghz version or adding extra memory to the 2.0 version?  The salesman in the shop said the base version would be more than adequate for what I will use it for but I wonder if you experienced Mac users could add your anything to this?

David

1997 Parker Fly Classic transparent Teal Green

www.dancineasy.co.uk my wedding/function band
www.saxandguitar.co.uk my sax and guitar duo
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: texasguy on November 27, 2007, 11:21:43 AM
Mac.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: loumt123 on November 27, 2007, 12:32:51 PM
You could get the 2.4 dual core but not upgrade your RAM (apple ram is ridiculously expensive). Then, you could just check out newegg.com and buy RAM for an imac way cheaper.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: davecan on November 27, 2007, 12:37:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by guitarmanuk

I am looking at the iMac for general use (e-mail, surfing etc), some web development and I want to get into some music recording, initially using Garageband and possibly then upgrading to Logic or similar.  I was looking at the base spec 20" iMac (due to cost) but is there an advantage of going up to the 2.4ghz version or adding extra memory to the 2.0 version?  The salesman in the shop said the base version would be more than adequate for what I will use it for but I wonder if you experienced Mac users could add your anything to this?


David,

I would go for the faster processor and add ram in a few months because it is much easier to upgrade RAM later on than to upgrade the processor.

Hvr, if you can only do one or the other and don't want to bother making changes later, than buying more ram with the slightly slower processor should give you better performance than the reverse (faster processor with less ram)....

Dave
(PS- I work mostly with PCs, but the concept is basically the same).
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: jwrooker on November 27, 2007, 01:36:39 PM
I agree that you should opt for the faster processor and then go third party for the RAM.  If you're gonna keep it for a few years, you're going to want the bigger motor.  [8D]  Also, make sure that they are shipping with Leopard.  Someone said that there might be a couple months lag before the warehouses all have Jeopard equipped Macs.  Also keep in mind that a full install of Logic Studio eats about 40-45 Gigs of hard drive so plan accordingly.  If you plan to use Leopard's new Time Machine backup system, save a little money for a USB or FireWare external drive. They are cheap these days.


John
Parker Chat: http://www.jwrooker.com/mychat
Buy/Sell/Trade at The Garage Sale: http://www.jwrooker.com/garagesale
The Music Project:  http://musicproject.ning.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: guitarmanuk on November 27, 2007, 04:12:53 PM
Thanks guys.  I think I will go for the 2.4ghz 20" model.  It comes with a slightly larger hard drive and better graphics card so is probably worth it for the extra $150.  As mentioned, I can get more memory later if needs be.  As for Leopard, all new Macs bought from Apple UK ship with it installed.  If you buy from a store, they are old stock and most likely have Tiger installed but you get an update disc when you register to upgrade to Leopard.  I would rather have the proper thing installed from the off and not have the hassle of upgrading.

PS.  I think my PC knows what is going on as it is no longer seeing the second hard drive and I had a "Blue Screen of Death" earlier on tonight!

David

1997 Parker Fly Classic transparent Teal Green

www.dancineasy.co.uk my wedding/function band
www.saxandguitar.co.uk my sax and guitar duo
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: dougc84 on November 28, 2007, 03:30:32 PM
i'll pitch in.

MAC.  all the way.

I've been a PC user for years.  Ever since I first got a computer with Windows 3.11 for Workgroups.  I never found Macs all that exciting, and, for the most part, they were incompatible with everything in PC land, which had the majority of everything.  The last couple years, after reexamining the OS, I've noticed it's made quite a stride forward.

I've seen the Mac evolve from old versions with black and white screens to what it currently is.  I will say that OS X Leopard is a stunning OS, and it makes working on the computer much more enjoyable.  Everything's easily accessible, and it works as it should.  The thing I never liked about Windows is that XP is based off of NT, which is essentially Win98, which was based off Win95, which was based off 3.0.  They've not reinvented anything in over 10 years, and even with Vista being "new," all they did was drop a graphics engine on top of what was already there, and screw with some code so that not everything would work (mainly due to their "new" and "improved" security features).  Computer usage has changed since the days of Windows 95 significantly - time for a redesign, Windows.

Vista's nice if you have all Vista-friendly applications and AT LEAST 2 gigs of RAM.

However, Mac's had most of those features that are now in Vista for several years, some dating back 5 years to X.0.

I still have to use Windows for application and web development, but I use XP inside of Parallels Desktop on my Mac Book Pro.  Runs as Windows should, still crashes as XP tends to do on a normal basis.  Everything's blazing fast, while SHARING 2 GB of RAM between XP and Leopard.  The Dual Core's are crazy fast too.

My Mac has only kernel panic'd once in the 6 months I've had it.  I couldn't tell you how many times my work PC's locked up in 6 weeks.

'nuff said.  I'll take a Mac anyday.  Oh, and try putting GarageBand or Logic on a PC.  :-)



Parker Fly Mojo Flame in Blue Burst coming soon!
Other guitars:

Ibanez RG350DX "Frankenstein"
Ibanez RG7620 7-String
Fender Telecaster Plus
Fender Stratocaster Plus
... and some others ...

Equipment
Line 6 POD XT Live
Line 6 AX2-212
Mesa-Boogie Dual Rectifier
Laney VH100R
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: jwrooker on November 28, 2007, 03:44:41 PM
Small correction..NT and Win 98 are nothing alike.  Win 95 and 98 were still DOS based, NT wasn't.  NT 4 for workgroups but a Win 95 interface on NT.  Win 2000, and XP are essentially NT under the hood.  I have no experience with Vista and I hope to keep it that way.

I started out on a Radio Shack TRS 80 Model 1, then an Atari 800 and then an Apple //e, which I consider my first real computer.  I sold Z80 based S100 computers in 1980 for a while.  Used every version of MSDos ever released and every version of Windows from 2.0 through XP, only skipping ME. I've also used every version of Red Hat/Fedora Core Linux since REdHat 5.1.  Had a Mac Quadra 660AV with System 7 on it and fell in love with the Mac then.  It took from then until now for me to finally make the switch 100% to a new iMac and I'm really happy with it.  Underneath that pretty face is still a nice geeky Unix like operating system!  Woo Hoo!!  

So that's a long wordy way of agreeing with Macs!! [:D]


John
Parker Chat: http://www.jwrooker.com/mychat
Buy/Sell/Trade at The Garage Sale: http://www.jwrooker.com/garagesale
Be Part of the Forum CD at The Music Project:  http://musicproject.ning.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: guitarmanuk on December 05, 2007, 07:02:19 AM
Well, I have taken the plunge.  Last Sunday I picked up a 2.0ghz dual core 20" iMac.  I couldn't justify the 2.4ghz although I may regret it later.  Anyway, it is fabulous and looked great on my desk. [8D]

Monday morning it went back!! [:(!]  No operating system isnstalled and after 10 hours of trying I couldnt't get it to load OSX.  No support available at that time of day either [V]

Tuesday lunchtime, picked up a brand new replacement.  The original was DOA, which the seller said is very rare.  Anyway they had installed Leopard for me and made sure that this time it was all working.  I also picked up a USB digital TV tuner for $1 as part of a Christmas promotion.  I haven't set it up yet but it looks OK, especially for $1.  Check it out here http://www.miglia.com/tvmini2/

So I set it all up (again) and then I find that my current USB modem isn't compatible with Intel based Macs.  Several phone calls to various call centres in India at premium rates and they tell me I have got to shell out on a new one.  A chap I work with has an ADSL modem/router that is a week old that he is going to let me try and then buy for a cheap price, so that will sort that (I hope).

I have ordered another 1 gig memory module so that will take me up to 2 gig, which will be good.

I got to have a play last night for a while, after wasting a couple of hours trying to set up internet access (I still have my old PC so still have access via that) but not really enough to form any opinions yet.  

All in all, my first experience of a mac has been mixed.  I am sure it can only get better.

David

1997 Parker Fly Classic transparent Teal Green

www.dancineasy.co.uk my wedding/function band
www.saxandguitar.co.uk my sax and guitar duo
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: loumt123 on December 05, 2007, 12:33:48 PM
Service should be free...Macs come with 90 days of free phone support if I'm not mistaken. I'm surprised your modem wasn't compatible...hooking up a Mac to anything is as easy as 1-2-3.
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: guitarmanuk on December 05, 2007, 01:49:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cmpkllyrslf96

Service should be free...Macs come with 90 days of free phone support if I'm not mistaken. I'm surprised your modem wasn't compatible...hooking up a Mac to anything is as easy as 1-2-3.


I was surprised as well, but on my braodband providers site it clearly states that the USB modem I have is not compatible with the Intel based Macs.   Anyway, I will try the modem I am getting from my work colleague and go from there.

As an aside, I have been playing with simple stuff like iPhoto and that is just great.  As I get into the iMac I really think I am going to like it.  I already love the new style keyboard.

David

1997 Parker Fly Classic transparent Teal Green

www.dancineasy.co.uk my wedding/function band
www.saxandguitar.co.uk my sax and guitar duo
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: jwrooker on December 05, 2007, 01:59:14 PM
iPhoto is great.  Wait until you get into Garage Band!  I love Cover Flow view in the folders.  I d o a lot of digital photography and it is usually in Nikon Raw format and even Cover Flow supports Nikon Raw format so I don't even have to open an application and I can get a large preview of any photo file.  I just switched to an iMac a couple months ago.


John
Parker Chat: http://www.jwrooker.com/mychat
Buy/Sell/Trade at The Garage Sale: http://www.jwrooker.com/garagesale
Be Part of the Forum CD at The Music Project:  http://musicproject.ning.com
Title: Mac or PC?
Post by: BrainWorm on December 06, 2007, 02:31:25 AM
I got a new Mac tower a few days ago, I use ethernet to connect to the internet with. My router is six years old or more, the router connects to the internet modem. I went to
http://www.macsurfer.com/   to check out the latest Mac news before installing new software.   http://www.macfixit.com/   has the latest glitch news also.  http://www.ultimatemac.com/    The Ultimate Macintosh was useful for me a while back, don't know if it is still being kept up to date.
I installed Leopard last Tuesday night and it worked fine. I use erase the hard drive when I install a new operating system, and then reinstall what I want. That way the operating system is fresh. Leopard was a nice install, it imported info from the other hard drive I have the old OS on, email settings, network settings, calender, even a trackball driver. ProTools LE is not ready for Leopard yet so I can't use my MBox in Leopard but I can use it in OSX 10.4 on the second hard drive. Just start up from the hard drive with OSX 10.4 on it.

"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."