The Parker Guitars Forum

Parker Lounge => ON MUSICIANSHIP AND THE ART OF PLAYING => Topic started by: simonlock on January 30, 2008, 03:59:37 PM

Title: Body Language
Post by: simonlock on January 30, 2008, 03:59:37 PM
When you play, how much does the rest of your body get involved in the motions. Watching video of myself playing I seem to have a very stiff upper body. I suspect that it is taking away from the natural flow of the music my ears are intending. From watching other elite players I can see a lot of body language articulating the accents and phrases. Facial expression, spinal sway and head bobbing for the most part but it can literally involve your entire nervous system.

Would you say that it's important to get the body into it as much as your mind and hands or do you feel it's just extra fluff and just makes it more interesting to watch?

Simon
Vancouver,BC
2000 Fly Supreme
1998 Fly Supreme w/Jerome Little knobs
1999 Fly Artist w/Ken Parker sig and Jerome Little knobs
1999 Fly Artist custom refinished in dark walnut
2006 Fly Nylon w/Jerome Little knobs
2002 Fly Classic Hardtail
2006 Fly Classic
2006 Fly Mojo
1999 Fly Deluxe w/Gen1s
2001 MidiFly
Title: Body Language
Post by: 908ssp on January 30, 2008, 04:20:20 PM
Simon watch a classically trained player you won't see  much movement. I wouldn't worry about it. You need to relax and if that means you stay still well that's you. Forcing yourself to move with the music won't look or work. Not all rock players move, Petrucci. Now Vai makes the point about putting on the show how he learned that from Zappa and Roth and if you're at the level it might be something to consider. I do think tapping your foot or rocking with the beat helps your groove.

Alex

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/ThumbNails/SupGDSPiTN.jpg)(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/ThumbNails/DSCN1343.jpg)(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/ThumbNails/_1010802.jpg)(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/ThumbNails/_1010613.jpg)(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/ThumbNails/DeluxeCageWreck.jpg)(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/ThumbNails/_1010626.jpg)(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/ThumbNails/_1010502.jpg)(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/ThumbNails/_1010872.jpg)(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r245/908ssp/ThumbNails/ParkerFlyBass.jpg)
Title: Body Language
Post by: simonlock on January 30, 2008, 04:55:12 PM
yes, well since I do plan to make my playing something that is seen by an audience at some point it may be a good investment of my time to incorporate. Petrucci is an awe inspiring player but isn't all that entertaining to watch. Vai to me is even more incredible but i feel his antics are a little to over the top and kind of fake at times. Satch has a great way of getting his body grooving.

Now the body language can be slight to extreme. Maybe when you really let go it'll be something that comes naturally. Some movement may not even be detectible but to the player can feel like an internal dance with the music you're creating.

As a side note, Martone has got some great faces and people really dig it when he does it.

Simon
Vancouver,BC
2000 Fly Supreme
1998 Fly Supreme w/Jerome Little knobs
1999 Fly Artist w/Ken Parker sig and Jerome Little knobs
2006 Fly Nylon w/Jerome Little knobs
2002 Fly Classic Hardtail
2006 Fly Classic
2006 Fly Mojo
1999 Fly Deluxe w/Gen1s
2001 MidiFly
Title: Body Language
Post by: Paul Marossy on January 30, 2008, 05:02:01 PM
I don't move much, either. I think the main thing is just to relax and do whatever feels best for you. I actually distract myself and find it harder to concentrate on what I am doing if I move around too much.

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
www.DIYguitarist.com
www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Body Language
Post by: Lwinn171 on January 30, 2008, 11:08:32 PM
When I'm playing well, I naturally move in a way that has been dubbed "the Larry shuffle". If I'm playing really well, I get up on my tiptoes a lot. None of it is conscious, though. I used to move around more wildly, back in my younger days. It's all to do with how comfortable I am, any given night. Most of the time, I'm moving around a fair bit.

Lawrence Winn
2001 Classic,1998 Classic
Boogie MK IV, Behringer ACX-1800, Zoom A2, various effects
Title: Body Language
Post by: BrainWorm on January 31, 2008, 02:16:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FND9eDp4nE&feature=related

I like Amy Winehouse's body language on stage live. A combination of natural herself and learned stage mannerism. And her learned stage mannerism is so natural. Awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rakv-LKhdow&feature=related




"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."
Title: Body Language
Post by: simonlock on January 31, 2008, 02:22:54 AM
WOW her body language is dirty talk [:p] She could stand still and have my full attention.

Simon
Vancouver,BC
2000 Fly Supreme
1998 Fly Supreme w/Jerome Little knobs
1999 Fly Artist w/Ken Parker sig and Jerome Little knobs
2006 Fly Nylon w/Jerome Little knobs
2002 Fly Classic Hardtail
2006 Fly Classic
2006 Fly Mojo
1999 Fly Deluxe w/Gen1s
2001 MidiFly
Title: Body Language
Post by: Paul Marossy on January 31, 2008, 03:38:29 PM
I would bet that guitar player "body language" has a lot to do with a person's personality in general. If you're stoic as a rule, you probably will be on a guitar as well. Not true in every case, but I think it is in a lot of cases. Sometimes your alterego comes out when you get a guitar in your hands. But I'm not that type.

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
www.DIYguitarist.com
www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Body Language
Post by: prjacobs on January 31, 2008, 05:49:19 PM
Simon,
Get as high as Amy Winehouse does and you'll lose a great deal of inhibition, but you may be drooling instead of playing.  However, a drink or two, or whatever, in moderation, may give you some new insights into performing... Just don't do it every night. Having been there as a performer and as an audience member, I think that it really depends on the artist.  I worked with Meatloaf, who went nuts on stage, and with Edgar Winter and Roy Buchanan, who both basically stood there. They were being themselves, and it all worked.  If I'm really feeling an artist communicate, as a player, singer, songwriter, I don't care what they're doing, because they're successfully drawing me in.  If the style of music you're playing is "party" music, then it's your job to get the audience into a party mood, so sometimes the genre dictates performance perameters.  If moving around in any way gets you to be more expressive as a player, than it's valid, but if it's forced, the audience will know it and it will suck.  Of course, certain types of music, say, big hair rock, requires stupid, self serving poses to work...  Just think of it as theater...  Whatever you do, don't compare yourself to others. As with your music, do it on your own terms.
That's my 2 cents worth....
Title: Body Language
Post by: simonlock on January 31, 2008, 06:54:44 PM
Thanks for the great replies guys. I think I'll try it out a bit and see how much I can move without it being a distraction.

Simon
Vancouver,BC
2000 Fly Supreme
1998 Fly Supreme w/Jerome Little knobs
1999 Fly Artist w/Ken Parker sig and Jerome Little knobs
2006 Fly Nylon w/Jerome Little knobs
2002 Fly Classic Hardtail
2006 Fly Classic
2006 Fly Mojo
1999 Fly Deluxe w/Gen1s
2001 MidiFly
Title: Body Language
Post by: Paul Marossy on January 31, 2008, 07:02:38 PM
quote:
They were being themselves, and it all worked. If I'm really feeling an artist communicate, as a player, singer, songwriter, I don't care what they're doing, because they're successfully drawing me in.


Bingo! It is kind of fun to watch people grimace and contort their bodies, though. [;)]

Like you said, they were just being themselves. To me, that is the key. [8D]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
www.DIYguitarist.com
www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Body Language
Post by: jwrooker on January 31, 2008, 07:14:44 PM
Simon,

You might be too young to remember this movie, but like in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.."I'm better if I move".





John
But, Sell, Trade at The Garage Sale: http://www.jwrooker.com/garagesale
Parker Chat: http://www.jwrooker.com/mychat
Be Part of the Forum CD at The Music Project:  http://musicproject.ning.com
Say It Proud, I'm Old and I'm Loud!: http://www.loudoldguys.com
Title: Body Language
Post by: ckyvick on January 31, 2008, 10:57:34 PM
yo dude it doesnt matter waht you do really. music you play should generally speak for itself, stage shows are just bonus. if moveing around doesnt do it theres many many tricks with the guitar, i just bought a stretchy guitar strap on ebay, consider guitar tosses as well perhaps(get strap locks first)? im one of the people that turns into something else when playing guitar usually so i don't have your problem.

i study classical but ive had my p44 much longer than that... for classical.. hardly any movement with a serious face, someone told me i looked pissed off haha...its all about loving the music an the more your into a song the easier it is to move around, like if you listen to it without playing it and you rock out to it, why not feel the same way while playing the song...if you hardly know the song its probably a good idea not to move around much, of if you have to concentrate.
Title: Body Language
Post by: loumt123 on January 31, 2008, 11:46:21 PM
depends what I'm playing and how I'm feeling. Sometimes I'll over emote for the music..not purposely, but just because it comes naturally and it's fun. If I'm jamming with someone on a blues tune I'll bend a note and pull the guitar out, dip down with it, and make a stupid face. I guess I'd say I'm a fairly relaxed player, and I do whatever comes natural and it happens to look good [:D]. Classical I'm usually pretty propper, jazz I do the head bob and weave on swing stuff. If you're feelin' it and not thinking about that stuff I think it's all good.
Title: Body Language
Post by: BrainWorm on February 01, 2008, 02:36:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjHQV-SuqNE&feature=related

There's Amy Winehouse playing guitar and singing. Not as much movement, not as much visual interest maybe. The face expressions are interesting but can an audience notice expressions on the face. I found her chord playing interesting, I started watching her guitar playing as much as watching her.

"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."
Title: Body Language
Post by: mountaindewaddict on February 02, 2008, 11:24:18 PM
Hey Simon!  If you want to see authentic stage body language that looks real and seems like it "fits," look no further than Phil Keaggy.  Here's a couple favorites of mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV3bLZLpqTQ    (especially at 4:30ish)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T89MVl2NcPg

I don't know if Keaggy is your thing (you're more of a metal guy, right?), but you gotta dig the loops.  Peace.

MountainDewAddict (Casey)

Gear:
Parker P-44, Takamine G-Series,  Digitech GNX4, Korg AX3A, Crate Powerblock 150, Various other assorted pedals and gizmos

"Remember, if at first you don't succeed, you're doing it wrong."

God Bless!
Title: Body Language
Post by: ckyvick on February 03, 2008, 04:28:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCgQmOW74Mw

just watch and learn. at least my link someones playing a parker.
Title: Body Language
Post by: BrainWorm on February 04, 2008, 01:36:04 AM
Learn what?

"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."
Title: Body Language
Post by: ckyvick on February 04, 2008, 04:13:24 AM
learn that playing a parker is all that matters
Title: Body Language
Post by: mountaindewaddict on February 04, 2008, 10:05:04 AM
ckyvick, the first person I ever saw play a Parker WAS Phil Keaggy. Need proof?  Here:

http://www.parkerguitars.com/code/players/players_popup.asp?artist=24

And I don't know if it was you in the video you posted or not, but I can't say that I learned much from it.  Maybe if the person shooting it wasn't in the 16th row, or had a zoom lens, that might have helped.

Sorry if that was snarky... It's a Monday.

MountainDewAddict (Casey)

Gear:
Parker P-44, Takamine G-Series,  Digitech GNX4, Korg AX3A, Crate Powerblock 150, Various other assorted pedals and gizmos

"Remember, if at first you don't succeed, you're doing it wrong."

God Bless!
Title: Body Language
Post by: Paul Marossy on February 04, 2008, 10:14:21 AM
quote:
the first person I ever saw play a Parker WAS Phil Keaggy.


That album called "On The Fly" where he is playong a Fly is a really good one!

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
www.DIYguitarist.com
www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Body Language
Post by: mountaindewaddict on February 04, 2008, 03:25:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy
That album called "On The Fly" where he is playing a Fly is a really good one!



Yeah, I just bought a copy on Amazon today.  I have no idea why it has taken me so long to get that.  I also picked up a replacement copy of PK's "Acoustic Sketches" CD.  I loaned it out a long time ago and well, you know how that goes...  I just couldn't live without it any longer.  It's ESSENTIAL LISTENING if you play acoustic.[:D]

MountainDewAddict (Casey)

Gear:
Parker P-44, Takamine G-Series,  Digitech GNX4, Korg AX3A, Crate Powerblock 150, Various other assorted pedals and gizmos

"Remember, if at first you don't succeed, you're doing it wrong."

God Bless!
Title: Body Language
Post by: ckyvick on February 05, 2008, 01:56:07 AM
it was the point that you couldnt see them and the music should just speak for itself. if you dont know anything about cky you should get yourself a copy of IDR and find out what youve been missing on, if you want a more refined sound check out an answer can be found~
Title: Body Language
Post by: JSanta on February 05, 2008, 07:11:05 AM
When I was in high school a friend of mine loaned me three CKY cds and to this day I have never found them to be particularly interesting.  I would rather listen to Daniel Gildenlow play his Fly than any CKY song.  It's not to say they're bad, but they are not the best band on the planet by any means.


/jim

Miss Wormwood:  What State do you live in?
Calvin: Denial.
Miss Wormwood: I don't suppose I can argue with that...
Title: Body Language
Post by: Paul Marossy on February 05, 2008, 08:57:04 AM
quote:
I also picked up a replacement copy of PK's "Acoustic Sketches" CD. I loaned it out a long time ago and well, you know how that goes... I just couldn't live without it any longer. It's ESSENTIAL LISTENING if you play acoustic.


I also have that CD. Phil is also an incredible acoustic player. I would say he is my only influence when it comes to acoustic playing. I haven't really played acoustic for years now...

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
www.DIYguitarist.com
www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Body Language
Post by: Steel Pelican on February 05, 2008, 10:34:26 AM
Why talk about it when I can show you?  For the record, none of my "super awesome stage moves" are rehearsed or planned.  Most of the time it's my gyrating flailing in a bad attempt to keep the beat.  My facial expressions, apparently, are the real money-maker.  

These shots are from Halloween 2006, when my band was the Rolling Stones for Halloween (I'm Ron Wood).  I lost a strap button on my Fly halfway through the show so had to go with the Les Paul backup.

(http://lh4.google.com/greg.d.park/R6iMpEzzVXI/AAAAAAAAACY/vIKJtBv_wJY/ssbb1.jpg)
Here, I'm clearly absorbed in that Bmaj. Doing my best "I'm totally into the music, man" hippy pose.  There's a very good chance that I was unconsciously dancing.  Again, this stupidity just sort of happens.  Looking at these pictures is like listening to a tape of yourself sleep-talking.  

(http://lh4.google.com/greg.d.park/R6iMpEzzVYI/AAAAAAAAACg/k4QXEv7VTaQ/ssbb2.jpg)
Again, meditative and intent.  I think I'm trying to count the beats in "Can't You Hear Me Knockin'?"

(http://lh5.google.com/greg.d.park/R6iMpUzzVaI/AAAAAAAAACw/xbZgu76HOwo/ssbb4.jpg)
And all dignity goes straight out the window.  Barre chords, apparently, fill me with a joy unparalleled by 1000 exploding suns.  Apparently.

-Greg
-----------
'97 Classic Fly, Trans. Red
Vox Tonelab SE
Mesa/Boogie .50 Cal
Genz Benz El Diablo 60c
Takamine TAN16C
Title: Body Language
Post by: Paul Marossy on February 05, 2008, 10:48:32 AM
Nice pics Greg. I like the third one. [:D]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
www.DIYguitarist.com
www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Body Language
Post by: joeypazz on February 05, 2008, 11:31:19 AM
I am not really that good with the performance aspect.  Actually, I pretty much suck.  Some people just get out there and own the stage.  I wish I was like that.  I was classically trained, so learned to rock out whilst sitting in a chair with one leg propped up.  That doesn't exactly scream rock star.  I do much better when I am playing acoustic though.

Phil Keaggy does have a nice presence.  Looks pretty good playing that Olson too.  Another guy who does some similar percussive stuff to Phil is Preston Reed.  However, his stage presence is about as becoming as my left toe nail.  http://youtube.com/watch?v=t3mx6fsJFjw

I saw Dream Theater a while back, along with Satch and King's X.  Honestly, Ty Tabor put on a better show than all of them, even though he is the least technical proficient of those guys.  But I'll tell you what, his playing was really impressive.  He really seemed to pull out every note with passion.

Parker Fly Deluxe, Ibanez Custom, Breedlove Focus Maple, Rainsong DR-1000
Steinberger XQ4, Warwick FNA Jazzman
Bad Cat Cub II, VHT Pitbull, Mesa Rect-O-Verb, David Eden WT-300, etc.

http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/joeypazzalia/Gear/?start=all
Title: Body Language
Post by: mountaindewaddict on February 05, 2008, 03:04:47 PM
Hey Joey!  Welcome to the forum.  Can I just say, you have a sweet sounding gear collection!  I'm glad you liked the Phil Keaggy vid.  Of course, starting out on classical / acoustic, you'd probably already heard of him.  I get to see him in St. Louis on April 10 - I'm psyched!

MountainDewAddict (Casey)

Gear:
Parker P-44, Takamine G-Series,  Digitech GNX4, Korg AX3A, Crate Powerblock 150, Various other assorted pedals and gizmos

"Remember, if at first you don't succeed, you're doing it wrong."

God Bless!
Title: Body Language
Post by: ckyvick on February 06, 2008, 12:40:53 AM
you have to at least give CKY credit for trying something different in a world of sameness~ and parkers are a big part of their sound. mostly octave pedals, but parkers too.
Title: Body Language
Post by: joeypazz on February 06, 2008, 08:40:48 AM
Thanks MountainDewAddict!  Yeah, I have heard of Phil before.  I missed the chance to see him when he came some years ago.  I have an instruction video of him and he really is great.  I used to own a Zion guitar, which he plays.  I remember watching him play that on the video and just making that thing sing.  He really gets into it.

I do enjoy all of my gear.  If only I could play well to compliment it.  At least when I hit those sour notes they will have nice tone.

Parker Fly Deluxe, Ibanez Custom, Breedlove Focus Maple, Rainsong DR-1000
Steinberger XQ4, Warwick FNA Jazzman
Bad Cat Cub II, VHT Pitbull, Mesa Rect-O-Verb, David Eden WT-300, etc.

http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/joeypazzalia/Gear/?start=all
Title: Body Language
Post by: JSanta on February 07, 2008, 05:10:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ckyvick

you have to at least give CKY credit for trying something different in a world of sameness~ and parkers are a big part of their sound. mostly octave pedals, but parkers too.




I personally don't hear anything different than any other modern rock band to be honest.  Now Primus, they're different...


/jim

Miss Wormwood:  What State do you live in?
Calvin: Denial.
Miss Wormwood: I don't suppose I can argue with that...