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Parker Lounge => ON MUSICIANSHIP AND THE ART OF PLAYING => Topic started by: Bill on February 12, 2012, 09:08:15 AM

Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Bill on February 12, 2012, 09:08:15 AM
I just started reading an interesting new book titled Guitar Zero. Its author is a professor of psychology at NYU whose specialty is cognitive development. At nearly age 40, he decides to take up his life long dream of learning music in general and guitar in particular. He sets out in earnest to document what it takes to achieve the 10,000 hours/ 10 year journey often quoted as the prerequisite to obtaining that skill. He chronicles the changes in brain wiring required, which explains the long learning curve. He delves into the myth and realities of inborn talent versus hard work and the nuances of starting a musical pursuit well after the doors to childhood's "golden age of learning" have closed.

Bottom line: it isn't easy, but it certainly can be done. The difference is that the older learner requires smaller steps practiced at more frequent intervals. No surprise but still interesting to watch the case study. Its not often a cognitive behavior specialist sets out to do a case study on a pursuit of learned behavior--on himself.

Regarding inborn talent, there are a few extraordinary Prince's and Paul McCarthy's, but most great musicians probably inherited only the basics that most people are born with. The exceptional musical ability of even the greats is largely learned. About 10% of the population is expected to be largely amusical but they also aren't likely to even have interest in learning music anyway.

He goes into the differences between the casual player and the real musician. Bottom line: its practice hours AND quality of the practice. The casual and the accomplished both have to practice a lot. But the casual player practices what he can do; the accomplished musician practices what he can't do. Interesting, I know some young adult and middle aged musicians who are too embarrassed to take lessons. But many of the top mature musicians readily admit to taking lessons regularly, even if its from their own notes. (Pat Methany as example). Most accomplished musicians say they are still learning and view music as a lifelong pursuit.

Its an insightful and slightly instructional, but not a laborious read. Anyway, I am about half way through the book and can already recommend it to my middle aged friends who like me, started guitar late in life. We can relate !

http://us.penguingroup.com/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9781594203176,00.html?strSrchSql=guitar+zero/Guitar_Zero_Gary_Marcus

A few Flys in my soup
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: billy on February 12, 2012, 09:44:13 AM
Thanks Bill!  I actually saw this on amazon the other day but didn't order until I could flip through it to get past the pr copy, so appreciate your comments.

I did a lot of cognitive psych work for my masters and thought this was an interesting spin.  Totally agree on the practice comments.  I used to refer to that as the difference between "playing" (what the casual player is actually doing) and "practicing" (the more analytical efforts a pro does).  The pro does another thing before performing which is "practicing playing."

All that aside, in terms of book recommendations, just finished victor wooten's "the music lesson."

Though it has some far fetched moments, they help make his points.  It would be hard not to get something out of the book no matter where you are on your path.  Quick and easy read.  Highly recommended!
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Bill on February 12, 2012, 10:35:05 AM
Well if the definition of an accomplished player requires practicing what you can't do, then I am most certainly an accomplished player.

I have been practicing the same darn songs over and over again for 20 years and still can't do them !

Thanks for that book recommendation too. Maybe I'll get to it eventually. At this stage I'm not sure if my muscle needs more memory or my memory needs more muscle.

A few Flys in my soup
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Patzag on February 12, 2012, 11:02:28 AM
I am sorry but I do not subscribe to fancy theories about brain wiring.  IMO it's complete hogwash.  They reduce everything to matter/energy and leave out the spiritual (that word unfortunately has been soiled by scientists) which remains senior to the nervous switchboard we call the brain.

Sorry if I come across as ranting, especially after posts from two of my favorite forum members, but aesthetics has been perverted by the psych world so much it makes me a bit angry.  Let art be the highest form of communication it really is.  next thing you know, some  scientist will invent a drug that "improves" guitar playing!

[/end rant]

Pearl White Custom Dragonfly HSH 2010 / Voodoo Blackburst Custom S3 2011 / Ceriatone HRM amplifier / Axe FX II
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: mountaindewaddict on February 12, 2012, 11:07:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Patzag
next thing you know, some  scientist will invent a drug that "improves" guitar playing!


Didn't they do that already?  I thought it was called "beer" [?]



... totally kidding, of course [:p] [;)] [}:)]

Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe, Gretsch 5129, Way Huge Pedals, Egnater amps, other stuff...
God Bless!
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Patzag on February 12, 2012, 11:32:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mountaindewaddict

quote:
Originally posted by Patzag
next thing you know, some  scientist will invent a drug that "improves" guitar playing!


Didn't they do that already?  I thought it was called "beer" [?]



... totally kidding, of course [:p] [;)] [}:)]

Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe, Gretsch 5129, Way Huge Pedals, Egnater amps, other stuff...
God Bless!




This one's just for you Casey:  [8D]


Pfizer Corp. announced today that Viagra would soon be available in liquid form, and will be marketed by Pepsi Cola as a power beverage suitable for use as a mixer. It will now be possible for a man to literally pour himself a stiff one. Obviously we can no longer call this a soft drink, and it gives new meaning to the names of "****tails", "highballs" and just a good old-fashioned "stiff drink". Pepsi will market the new concoction by the name of: MOUNT & DO.  [;)]


Pearl White Custom Dragonfly HSH 2010 / Voodoo Blackburst Custom S3 2011 / Ceriatone HRM amplifier / Axe FX II
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: billy on February 12, 2012, 01:26:25 PM
Hi Patrick-

I didnt see this as a rant, just something to discuss, and it's always fascinating.

I can't speak for the first book, cause I haven't read it but my take on it is that effective practicing, consistently is how you get good at an instrument rather than just repeating things you can already sort of do without pushing the envelope.  Not that there is any magic rewiring that happens if you tune your brain to just the right frequency, but instead most people end up in a rut doing the same things over and over again, when what is missing is some analysis to improve technique enough to play.

As for the spiritual I completely agree, and it was one of the things I liked so much about the Wooten book.  I think you'd really like it based on your comments.
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: mountaindewaddict on February 12, 2012, 03:19:08 PM
@ Pat, I like it! [:D]  Not that I need it, personally... I mean, we are expecting our 5th kid in May. [:)] [;)]

Back to the topic at hand, I'm always a little wary of "either/or" distinctions.  I think that many times, it's "both/and."  Because we're not dealing with absolutes, a syncretistic approach may be best.  I.e., bring in the most helpful insights of neuroscience and cognitive development as well as artistic and "non-tangible" facets of playing.

Casey

Gear: Parker Fly Deluxe, Gretsch 5129, Way Huge Pedals, Egnater amps, other stuff...
God Bless!
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Bill on February 12, 2012, 04:19:02 PM
Patzag, there is nothing in the book that contradicts the spiritual. My quick summary may have miss led you into missing the books point. I don't think you would find reading it as belittling the musical experience. But you might find it boring.

There is a lot in the book devoted to the similarities and differences between language and music. In fact, I think he agrees with you regarding a higher form of communication.

Anyway its not for everyone. Many would think its pretty dry reading. Many would not see any point to analyzing anything related to musical experience anyway. I can understand that. Personally, I just can identify with his story.

I dig lots of things there is no point too. Don't know why, just do.

Regarding the Viagra in Pepsi, well that speaks to a different type of muscle memory. In my case it is more memory than muscle. [:I]

I wouldn't mind putting in the 10,000 hours practice time needed here either if I wasn't a solo artist [:o)]






A few Flys in my soup
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Patzag on February 12, 2012, 05:07:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Bill

Patzag, there is nothing in the book that contradicts the spiritual. My quick summary may have miss led you into missing the books point. I don't think you would find reading it as belittling the musical experience. But you might find it boring.

There is a lot in the book devoted to the similarities and differences between language and music. In fact, I think he agrees with you regarding a higher form of communication.

Anyway its not for everyone. Many would think its pretty dry reading. Many would not see any point to analyzing anything related to musical experience anyway. I can understand that. Personally, I just can identify with his story.

I dig lots of things there is no point too. Don't know why, just do.


No sweat, Bill.  Got it!



quote:
Originally posted by Bill

Regarding the Viagra in Pepsi, well that speaks to a different type of muscle memory. In my case it is more memory than muscle. [:I]

I wouldn't mind putting in the 10,000 hours practice time needed here either if I wasn't a solo artist [:o)]




A few Flys in my soup



Now there's my Bill!  [:D]


Pearl White Custom Dragonfly HSH 2010 / Voodoo Blackburst Custom S3 2011 / Ceriatone HRM amplifier / Axe FX II
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Patzag on February 12, 2012, 05:09:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by billy

Hi Patrick-

I didnt see this as a rant, just something to discuss, and it's always fascinating.

I can't speak for the first book, cause I haven't read it but my take on it is that effective practicing, consistently is how you get good at an instrument rather than just repeating things you can already sort of do without pushing the envelope.  Not that there is any magic rewiring that happens if you tune your brain to just the right frequency, but instead most people end up in a rut doing the same things over and over again, when what is missing is some analysis to improve technique enough to play.

As for the spiritual I completely agree, and it was one of the things I liked so much about the Wooten book.  I think you'd really like it based on your comments.

Billy

[always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question.  e. e. cummings]




Thanks Billy,
I'll check it out!

Pearl White Custom Dragonfly HSH 2010 / Voodoo Blackburst Custom S3 2011 / Ceriatone HRM amplifier / Axe FX II
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Patzag on February 12, 2012, 05:29:53 PM
Bill:  This one's for you, old fart!

An elderly couple are talking. The husband says "Dear, we've been married almost 50 years now. So tell me, if I were to pass away first, would you remarry?"
She says "Why, I love being married. You know, I think I would."
"Really?" he replies, "Well, would you let him live in this house?"
"You know, I love this house. I can't imagine living anywhere else. I think I would."
"Really? You would let him live here? Well, would you let him sleep in our bed?"
She thinks a moment. "This has been a wonderful bed. It's practically a new mattress, you know, I think I would."
"You'd let him sleep in our bed? Well, would you let him use my golf clubs?"
"No, he's left-handed."

Pearl White Custom Dragonfly HSH 2010 / Voodoo Blackburst Custom S3 2011 / Ceriatone HRM amplifier / Axe FX II
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Bill on February 12, 2012, 06:34:31 PM
[:D][:D][:D]

A few Flys in my soup
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: BrainWorm on February 12, 2012, 10:24:24 PM
Good joke, I liked that one.

"Brainverms come crawling and creeping and eat you when you're sleeping."
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: prjacobs on February 13, 2012, 12:06:49 AM
Bill, sounds like in interesting read. I'm curious to see how he gathered the data about even great musicians needing to practice. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I'll suspend judgement for the moment. It certainly would vary depending on what type of music you're playing. My classical piano teacher has taught kids with extraordinary inborn ability. She had one 14 year old who could learn almost any piece in 2 to 3 days, memorized at a concert level and has literally done that and played at Carnegie Hall. I'm talking about 55 minute Brahms sonatas, not chopsticks :). In real terms, that means this kid probably only needs to play a passage once or twice to totally master it. He never practiced and his parents were upset that he didn't work more. These are kids who end up graduating Harvard at 18 at the same time. What she's found is that even the most gifted kids eventually lose that transcendent ability when they get into their twenties. And in the case of this kid, she told the parents to chill and just let him start to play more as he needed to. It prevented him from burning out. My wonderful jazz piano teacher Sanford Gold said that three hours a day for a year could give a pianist the basics needed to develop into a good player.
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Bill on February 13, 2012, 07:10:11 AM
Yes its amazing to see prodigies in music or anything else and they certainly do exist. Photographic memories can apply to music (audiographic ?). Certainly we all have different varying degrees of inborn abilities.

And there is no question we have a childhood window of plastic learning that lends itself to leaps of musical ability if started young and no doubt that accelerator door closes as our brains fully myalinize sometime in our twenties.

But this book isnt really about all that. He touches on some of it briefly as he describes his journey. The whole 10,000 hours thing is not presented as science but just as a commonly heard generalization which has been generally assigned to our learning any skill. He is just saying nothing more than that generalized saying is out there.

So far, there is not much science presented here. He briefly touches on well accepted brain physiology , a few PET scan studies in kids, a few linguistic studies in infants and such but these are almost in passing.

Mostly, so far, its just an account of an insightful man trying to explain what he goes through on his journey into trying to become an accomplished guitarist starting from scratch at age 40. Its not that deep. Its not as dry as that last book on music I posted about. Its suppose to be entertaining. So far I'd say thats a little bit of a stretch. I do find it interesting. The author, who definitely does not come off like a pompass knowitall that I seem to while describing him,  gave a good interview on NPR that you could dig up if you're interested. Thats what hooked me into the book.

When I finish the book, I'll repost. It reads pretty fast but I'm not sure when I'll have time to get back into it. But so far I've got to admit that I must be doing a pretty crappy job of describing the book. [:I]

A few Flys in my soup
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Paul Marossy on February 13, 2012, 08:59:57 AM
In the past, out of frustration I've called myself Guitar Zero. I even made a logo for myself a few years ago.

(http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/91/32f6f0321d884487bdf773cdb01721f3/m.jpg)

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: prjacobs on February 13, 2012, 11:02:13 AM
Bill, I just ordered the kindle version :). There are certain non musical skills that can help even musicians with poor ears gain what would be considered great mastery. Vocalists, for example, can gain such a mechanical mastery of how to correctly produce pitch that they sing perfectly in tune and can handle any intervalic variation even though they don't have the ears to hear it. I can tell you that at Juilliard when I was 8, four people in a class of twenty couldn't hear the difference between a major and minor chord when played on the piano. To me, that was beyond mind blowing! If you can't hear happy and sad, why are you playing music. (The answer, often times - a pushy parent :) ....
Anyway, I'm looking forward to reading this.
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: prjacobs on February 13, 2012, 03:20:20 PM
Here's that NPR interview. http://www.npr.org/2012/01/22/145461770/a-guitar-zero-finds-its-not-too-late-to-learn-music
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: prjacobs on February 15, 2012, 11:50:06 AM
Not sure if I'm going to make it through this :). I'll keep slogging on for the moment...
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Paul Marossy on February 15, 2012, 01:30:01 PM
I listened to the audio clip at the NPR website. That was interesting.

I started playing guitar kind of late, when I was 20. Like Allan Holdsworth, I developed my own learning system to teach myself guitar because I was too poor to even think about guitar lessons. It was several years before I understood the concept of "a key". I just started learning chords from a chord chart and then figured out which ones sound better together than others. As time went on I got some books which helped me understand what the heck was going on as far as music theory goes. But when I play, I'm still doing it intuitively by ear mostly (I never learned to read music) although I do know what scale I am playing in and in what key (usually). I hardly ever think in terms of "oh now I'm playing a G note and this is an Ab", etc., at least not on a real conscious level. When I learned to play bass, I had to learn what notes were what, so that helped with knowing the guitar fretboard better than I did before. So I can agree with the professor that in some things, being older can be an advantage. But if I would have started sooner, then maybe I would have better pitch. I'm still terrible at hearing chords and discerning what they are, or even what a single note is although I can usually find it pretty fast on my guitar. And when I have to follow piano, I'm one of those people that sometimes can't hear if it's a minor or major chord if it's anything more than a triad - apparently my simple mind gets confused by all the information in my ears. So where do I end up playing my guitar? In a church where I have to play in front of 1,500 to 2,000 people and have to wing it when the band leader starts singing a song that I don't have a chord chart for, and I may not know what key it's even in! Sometimes I figure out the chords, sometimes not. If I don't then I go into some kind of lead thing, or double the melody with my guitar so that my guitar "sings" along. They haven't "fired" me yet (I'm a volunteer [;)]), so I guess what I am doing has been working for the last three years. [:D]

Anyway, so as a result of all this I know that I am limited in my abilities to an extent, but it's also what makes me unique as a musician. I hear things in a different way.

As far as the mechanics of playing an instrument goes, I believe that almost anyone can learn to play an instrument if they want to do it bad enough. I've known people personally who had people telling them to hang up the guitar, but they were determined and would play 6 hours a day until they got to be pretty proficient at it. Were they a virtuoso? No. But they made pretty decent guitarists. I've been goofing around for the last few weeks on an old Korg Polysix synth and I sometimes feel like maybe I should have taken up keys instead of the guitar! In some ways it just comes so much easier than playing the guitar does for me.

And then there's motivation, why you are learning the guitar. I was never one to learn some SRV song, play it perfectly and then put it on YouTube. I sometimes admire people who do that, but my motivation from day one was to not be a copycat of someone else. I rarely have a desire to play someone else's music other than maybe figuring out a cool sounding line or something. So I've really been nothing more than an improviser from the very beginning.

And then you have blind autistic people like Derek Paravicini who can hardly talk or function in normal everyday life, but can hear something once and play it back on the piano 99% correct! Or people who got struck by lightning and afterwards were in a short time playing piano quite well having never played one previously (Tony Cicoria). How do you explain those ones?!?! [:0]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: danjazzny on February 15, 2012, 02:51:01 PM
Wish I started playing at 20. Didn't pick up a guitar until I was 56! [B)]

'97 Alex Artist 4lbs12oz; '99 Simonized Artist 4lbs13oz; '97  TransRed Artist 4lbs9oz; '98 3-Tone Sunburst Artist (Hardtail)5lbs2oz; '99 Tobacco Sunburst Supreme 5lbs13oz; '09 Custom DragonFly 814 (Hardtail) 4lbs10oz; Line6 Flextone 3 Amp; Line 6 Vetta II Amp

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll233/danjazzny/HPIM0090.jpg)(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll233/danjazzny/HPIM0098-1.jpg)
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Paul Marossy on February 15, 2012, 04:00:33 PM
Wow! Really?! You started at 56 huh? That's cool, I guess it's never to late is it? [;)]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: danjazzny on February 15, 2012, 04:07:55 PM
FLYing makes it a lot easier! [:)]

'97 Alex Artist 4lbs12oz; '99 Simonized Artist 4lbs13oz; '97  TransRed Artist 4lbs9oz; '98 3-Tone Sunburst Artist (Hardtail)5lbs2oz; '99 Tobacco Sunburst Supreme 5lbs13oz; '09 Custom DragonFly 814 (Hardtail) 4lbs10oz; Line6 Flextone 3 Amp; Line 6 Vetta II Amp

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll233/danjazzny/HPIM0090.jpg)(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll233/danjazzny/HPIM0098-1.jpg)
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: billy on February 15, 2012, 05:28:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

Not sure if I'm going to make it through this :). I'll keep slogging on for the moment...



How so?  Pretty dry, or psycho babble, etc?

Would love to know more before I plunk down $12 or so into the ether.
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Bill on February 15, 2012, 09:14:20 PM
I would say its fairly dry, but light, with a steady hand on the psycho-babble.

Be forewarned that I guess my tastes in reading tend to run a bit eclectic.

My last book was The History Of The Atlantic Ocean. At times it was weirdly structured and hard to follow. But I liked it a lot.

Anyway, this one is nowhere close to the best thing you'll read this year.

Not really entertaining, but I am finding it interesting enough to be worthwhile.

A few Flys in my soup
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: prjacobs on February 16, 2012, 11:21:27 PM
Bill, I still haven't gotten back to the book. However, The History Of The Atlantic Ocean sounds great. Along those lines, I'd recommend The Island At The Center Of The World. Our true American ancestors, in terms of freedom of ideas, tolerance, and upward mobility were the Dutch, who lived in a federation of nine United States when the rest of Europe was repressive. People like Copernicus, Galileo and Descartes were published there when all other countries didn't allow such ideas to be expressed. The book is partially the result of many new records discovered in a back room in Albany, NY.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/04/books/they-took-manhattan.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Bill on February 17, 2012, 06:29:56 AM
Very cool, thanks, Sounds right up my alley.

[:)]

A few Flys in my soup
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Bill on February 18, 2012, 09:22:55 AM
I just finished the book.

I enjoyed reading it. A very balanced review of many dimensions related to the essence of music and musicianship.

Not too technical, not dogmatic or preachy, doesn't espouse any particular pop science viewpoint but touches on the arguments some of them give and the limitations of those arguments.

Overall an insightful and balanced perspective. I learned a few things and uncovered a small mini revelation or two. But mostly it was interesting enough that I am glad I read it and enjoyed the act of reading it, even if just shy of being able to call it entertaining.

A few Flys in my soup
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: prjacobs on February 27, 2012, 07:39:34 PM
Bill, I'm not going to make it through this :). I'm only about 7% through the book according to my kindle and I'm glazing over. He's just been talking about inborn musical talent and concluding that it's really practice that develops musical aptitude and I just don't think anything he says is conclusive. Nor does he. I guess I don't really care what part of the brain develops differently or is wired uniquely when musical talent is present. I think that there are many things the brain can do that will make our wiring more complex and that complexity will leach into other tasks, both intellectual and physical. I feel like I don't want to live in that future where we can say, okay - lets wire in perfect pitch and an attraction for harmonic sophistication, but lets throw in a little lunacy, play lots of blues in utero and see what happens :).
The one factor I just can't ignore is that this guy s*cks as a musician. He's not just bad, he stinks. And for someone with absolutely no musicality to tackle something that totally eludes him is hard to take. It feels like I'm listening to Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles talk about tennis....
Anyway, I'm moving on. I've been into lots of Scandinavian suspense these days, specifically the Harry Hole books by Jo Nesbo, who happens to be a songwriter...
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Bill on February 27, 2012, 07:49:51 PM
Hey, you gave it a try. Sorry if I steered you down a dead end.

Life is too short to force yourself to read something you don't get at this age.

I enjoyed it but its not for everyone for sure.

I dont usually read fiction but my niece wants me to read Hunger Games next.

We'll see.

A few Flys in my soup
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: prjacobs on February 27, 2012, 09:23:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Bill

Hey, you gave it a try. Sorry if I steered you down a dead end.

Life is too short to force yourself to read something you don't get at this age.

I enjoyed it but its not for everyone for sure.

I dont usually read fiction but my niece wants me to read Hunger Games next.

We'll see.

A few Flys in my soup



That's cool. I read a ton. I've read the Hunger Games trilogy. I liked it a lot. The movie comes out next month. I am going to look at the history of the Atlantic ocean.
Sounds good.
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Bill on February 27, 2012, 10:45:26 PM
This is the one I read:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303738504575568671386415824.html

Again its not exactly action packed. Sometimes a little hard to follow his long winded prose.

Here is a NYT review of it that is pretty much right on:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/books/review/Barcott-t.html?pagewanted=1

But I really enjoyed reading it and learned a lot.

A few Flys in my soup
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: billy on February 28, 2012, 11:41:40 AM
Thanks guys... Will probably skip this one!  

Hunger games sounds cool, thanks for the suggestion.  

I just finished "the art of possibility" by Ben Zander, which was excellent.

Also as stated before, and not at all like the guitar zero book, "the music lesson" by victor Wooten was really quite good.

The jobs book is next though...!
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Paul Marossy on February 28, 2012, 12:09:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

The one factor I just can't ignore is that this guy s*cks as a musician. He's not just bad, he stinks.


I was cringing when I heard him play LOL. So... is there a difference between bad and stinking?

quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

And for someone with absolutely no musicality to tackle something that totally eludes him is hard to take. It feels like I'm listening to Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles talk about tennis....


That would be a weird conversation to listen in on, wouldn't it?! [:D]



__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: prjacobs on February 28, 2012, 04:38:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy

quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

The one factor I just can't ignore is that this guy s*cks as a musician. He's not just bad, he stinks.


I was cringing when I heard him play LOL. So... is there a difference between bad and stinking?

_/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams



I think the difference between bad and stinking is that bad gives you more to work with [:)]. For someone who practiced for months, that was totally pathetic! The worst I've ever heard...




_
Title: Guitar Zero
Post by: Paul Marossy on February 28, 2012, 05:19:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by prjacobs

I think the difference between bad and stinking is that bad gives you more to work with [:)]. For someone who practiced for months, that was totally pathetic! The worst I've ever heard...


Literally LOL [:D]

__/\\/\\__PJM__/\\/\\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams