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-geisterfahrer-
Junior Member
USA
75 Posts |
 Posted - 11/12/2009 : 4:02:25 PM
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So i presume the Floyd is there because of Vernon Reid, but wouldn't it make sense to drop a Kahler option in as well. It takes up way less space has far more superior attributes than the Floyd and is closer to the custom unit that Parker uses. All the space saved without having to route for springs, both coil and flat would gain more wood for tone, or more space for electronics. I have played all 3, and just found the Floyd (Although fun to use) a little primitive over the other two.
2 cents 
ATB
*We're gonna need a bigger boat* |
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-geisterfahrer-
Junior Member
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 4:37:52 PM
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Hi Simon,
The Kahler isn't rare at all, Adrian Belew himself endorsed and used them and they've been used on numerous lines from many manufacturers... the technology is very sound, and it almost blew my mind to see that a Floyd would have been first choice as an option for the Fly.... a step back IMHO, (Lets outfit this bugatti with stone wheels) The Kahler has a cam based system, uses precision bearings, has 6 degrees of freedom for saddle positioning, uses roller guides across the bridge, has fine tuning, and the neck string lock sits behind the nut to give the freedom of nut material choice. I had never experienced a string break using a Kahler, but busted em often using the floyd due to the tight turn (90deg)the string makes out of the clamping block then add to that the effect of work hardening on the string due to divebombing which is all the fun of a Floyd anyway. The Kahler lets you do all the fun stuff but brings more to the party.
*We're gonna need a bigger boat* |
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-geisterfahrer-
Junior Member
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 5:23:38 PM
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The Kahler system is all integral, and shallow enough that they make models that retro into guitars that have a stud mount tail piece like PRS and Les Pauls...
Here's a link.... http://www.kahlerusa.com/
Lemme know what you think....
*We're gonna need a bigger boat* |
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mojotron
Advanced Member
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 7:11:41 PM
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| I used Kahlers on Charvels for a long time. I thought the tone was excellent, but I used them blocked so that the motion was only lowering the pitch. I like both - stability has not been an issue on either for me. |
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wkcchampion
Advanced Member
Italy
1344 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 02:25:04 AM
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Judging from several Youtube reportages, the Kahler is easier to setup but more prone to go out of tune with string bending. The (original) Floyd is a hassle to setup but rock-solid.
The Ibanez Edge Pro and Edge Z are excellent trems too, I had an Ibanez with an Edge Pro years ago and it was always in tune - exactly as Parkers!
Obviously, Licensed Floyd tremolos are garbage 90/100 of the time
---------
Pregno Splatter
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org
Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo :)
Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 Di Marzio PUs)
Boss GT-10
VOX AC30CC2X
(more gear on my website)
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Edited by - wkcchampion on 11/13/2009 02:25:55 AM |
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-geisterfahrer-
Junior Member
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 10:56:46 PM
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The Floyd will go out of tune like any floating system as soon as you start to bend a string, Kahler also makes a floating/double locking system so i can see an issue there, they also have a compensator drop in for their model that keeps the whole thing in tune while bending and in the event of string break. I have only used the Cam operated system and never had any issues. here's a link to some of the Cam models attributes http://www.kahlerusa.com/pictures/FAB%20Web%20Page.jpg
The original Floyd that i played for 8 years, looking back I became quite adept at fixing, it was like a relationship, if you push the right buttons its all good, but there's a learning curve. The Kahler was on the same wavelength from day one, and everything that the Floyd lacked was in the kahler .
*We're gonna need a bigger boat* |
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-geisterfahrer-
Junior Member
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 12:07:23 AM
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Here's a new one... www.tremking.com its a retro fit with a little routing and it has a similar although simpler technology to the ibanez zero trem, it stays in tune with a busted string, during a d-tune, and in floating mode. the neat thing is that the bridge and saddles all stay put and the strings roll over the saddles, one of my friends is putting together a strat from pieces, and this is the trem we chose... its also getting the David Gilmour EMG setup, but thats another story.
ATB
*We're gonna need a bigger boat* |
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Nefarius
Advanced Member
Austria
560 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 04:49:01 AM
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All I can say is that after experiencing the Parker tremolo I haven't looked back. Beautiful, stable, five minutes for string change. What more could you possibly wish for?
Greetings...
Nef |
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wkcchampion
Advanced Member
Italy
1344 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 04:50:36 AM
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Nef is right, and that "Trem King" system doesn't look convincing at all.
But I like the Original Floyd (NOT licensed) as well, even if string change IS a hassle...
---------
Pregno Splatter
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org
Pearl White 2008 Fly Mojo :)
"Eldy" / Majik Blue 1995 Fly Deluxe (Gen1 Di Marzio PUs)
Boss GT-10
VOX AC30CC2X
(more gear on my website)
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ekornbakke
Junior Member
Norway
77 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 08:11:45 AM
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I have ordered a EGS-tremolo by Ola Strandberg for my old Ibanez, since the old Floyd Rose bridge is now completely broken. (after 17 years of abuse!)
Take a look:
http://guitarworks.thestrandbergs.com/products/
It was in fact on this forum that someone had linked to his site, so that was how I got to know about in the first place. I don`t remember who it was, but thanks! I thought it would be much more fun to try this tremolo instead of ordering a new and just as expensive Floyd Rose bridge. I considered Kahler as well, again after reading about it here, but now looking forward to try the rare and very interesting EGS-trem!
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Parker Fly Mojo 08, Summer!
Parker Fly Mojo Quilt 08, Transparent Green Burst
Parker Fly Deluxe 01, Majik Blue |
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Lwinn171
Advanced Member
USA
1848 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 11:58:24 AM
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For me, the Parker trem is the best I've used. Better than Floyd, better than Kahler. Now that I know it isn't needed, I'll never have to deal with a locking nut ever again.
Lawrence Winn
2001 Classic, 98 Deluxe
various amps, various toys |
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ekornbakke
Junior Member
Norway
77 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 12:36:22 PM
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I like the Parker Trem too!!
But there is an obvious downside to the design without a locking nut and the high E-string having its tuner so far away from the nut. This makes the string very long compared to having a locking nut, so bending the string requires a lot more bending to reach the desired pitch.
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Parker Fly Mojo 08, Summer!
Parker Fly Mojo Quilt 08, Transparent Green Burst
Parker Fly Deluxe 01, Majik Blue |
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Noodler
Advanced Member
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 12:50:15 PM
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| ekornbakke - you can thank me when you post some pictures of the finished upgrade. I was the one who posted that link to the trem and I wish I could get my hands on one someday. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how yours comes out. |
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-geisterfahrer-
Junior Member
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 7:37:45 PM
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A friend just finished putting together a strat from parts and has installed a TremKing Trem... it is very robust and really works. There is seems to be nothing Hinky about it at all, just a fresh perspective, bust a string and it stays in tune and no locking nut, just another alternate to the stock fender trem.
*We're gonna need a bigger boat* |
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Highlander
Junior Member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2010 : 8:35:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by -geisterfahrer-
So i presume the Floyd is there because of Vernon Reid, but wouldn't it make sense to drop a Kahler option in as well. It takes up way less space has far more superior attributes than the Floyd and is closer to the custom unit that Parker uses. All the space saved without having to route for springs, both coil and flat would gain more wood for tone, or more space for electronics. I have played all 3, and just found the Floyd (Although fun to use) a little primitive over the other two.
2 cents
ATB
*We're gonna need a bigger boat*
I installed a Kahler stud-mount trem on my PM-20 singlecut, I have always been a fan of those bridges!
I have a Dragonfly Prototype with original Floyd Rose, and its also amazing.
The ONLY thing that I dont like about the Parker trem is NO FINE TUNERS...which granted, arent needed as much without a locking nut, but still are far more precise than the headstock mounted tuners - in my opinion.
Scott |
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Goldtop
New Member
28 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2010 : 11:49:30 AM
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The Ibanez Edge series trems ARE licensed Floyd Rose.
Gotoh also makes a very nice licensed Floyd.
GT |
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ekornbakke
Junior Member
Norway
77 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 2:18:04 PM
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Noodler! :
I almost forgot about this, as I have not finished, or indeed done anything with my old Ibanez for a long time. However, I did get my EGS-tremolo, and I have made an initial install. For the project to be ready, I must make some more cuts in the body and some other stuff must be fixed as well, but here are some pictures of what it looks like anyway.
Thanks for pointing me to the EGS, Noodler
The parts as they came:
And on the guitar:
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Parker Fly Mojo 08, Summer!
Parker Fly Mojo Quilt 08, Transparent Green Burst
Parker Fly Deluxe 01, Majik Blue |
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Paul Marossy
Advanced Member
USA
4657 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 8:53:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wkcchampion
The (original) Floyd is a hassle to setup but rock-solid.
The Ibanez Edge Pro and Edge Z are excellent trems too, I had an Ibanez with an Edge Pro years ago and it was always in tune - exactly as Parkers!
This has been my experience, too. But my favorite Ibanez vibrato bridge is the "Lo-TRS Trem II". I like it best of all the Floyd Rose variants.
I love the smoothness of the Parker vibrato bridge, but I don't like that I can't get the same amount of pitch rise with it as I can with my Floyd Rose equivalent equipped guitars.
Whenever I jump into these sorts of discussions, I always feel compelled to point out that these things are not tremolos. A tremolo effect is caused by a regular cyclical variance in the volume of something, as in what a tremolo pedal does. These bridges are actually a vibrato system, as they control the pitch, not the volume.
__/\/\__PJM__/\/\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams |
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sybersitizen
Advanced Member
USA
605 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 9:22:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy
Whenever I jump into these sorts of discussions, I always feel compelled to point out that these things are not tremolos.
A valid stance (and one that I share), but a lost cause I'm afraid. These devices will still be widely called 'trems' long after you and I and probably everyone else here are gone. ;)
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard |
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ekornbakke
Junior Member
Norway
77 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 02:45:40 AM
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Yes.
However, here in Norway, when speaking in norwegian we always said "vib arm", wich is short for vibrato arm. (or system) But when speaking in english it seems that trem is the word I must use to be understood.
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Parker Fly Mojo 08, Summer!
Parker Fly Mojo Quilt 08, Transparent Green Burst
Parker Fly Deluxe 01, Majik Blue |
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Paul Marossy
Advanced Member
USA
4657 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 08:36:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sybersitizen
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Marossy
Whenever I jump into these sorts of discussions, I always feel compelled to point out that these things are not tremolos.
A valid stance (and one that I share), but a lost cause I'm afraid. These devices will still be widely called 'trems' long after you and I and probably everyone else here are gone. ;)
Probably. But I will still be on a quest the rest of my life to clear up misnomers such as this one. 
__/\/\__PJM__/\/\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams |
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Goldtop
New Member
28 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 09:11:54 AM
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Funny, Leo Fender called it a tremelo. Not only that, he called the pulsating effect on his amps vibrato.
GT |
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sybersitizen
Advanced Member
USA
605 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 09:42:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Goldtop
Funny, Leo Fender called it a tremelo. Not only that, he called the pulsating effect on his amps vibrato.
Actually, it's tremolo. But yes, we can blame Leo for the original naming mistake that influenced so many others.
'01 Fly Deluxe|'69 SG Standard |
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Paul Marossy
Advanced Member
USA
4657 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 11:12:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sybersitizen
quote:
Originally posted by Goldtop
Funny, Leo Fender called it a tremelo. Not only that, he called the pulsating effect on his amps vibrato.
Actually, it's tremolo. But yes, we can blame Leo for the original naming mistake that influenced so many others.
Yep, that is a tremolo. It is harder for the layman to distinguish between the two, but there is a difference.
__/\/\__PJM__/\/\__
http://www.DIYguitarist.com
http://www.myspace.com/j201jams |
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billy
Junior Member
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 12:19:23 PM
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For what its worth I've always called it a "whammy" bar, but the appropriateness of that term might vary with your playing style. 
Agree that vibrato is probably a better term than tremolo for these bridges.
*play it like you mean it...* |
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Noodler
Advanced Member
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2010 : 12:33:40 PM
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| Now if I only had a guitar with a Floyd Rose "tremolo" system... |
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Topic |
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Floyd Rose V's Kahler
